EXAMPLE: Defender vs West Marine. Whats up???

Brings back memories of my time in the Navy. On a destroyer there was a HP air compress that needed to be rebuilt. The final stage required 8 rings. Because the compressor had not been rebuilt in a long long time, parts were not restocked on boat. So instead of having 8 rings, the supply department had 2 rings. The rest were returned to a shore side supply facility for redistribution.
End result: a primary weapon system was declared 'out of commission'

Hippocampus said:

In response to the limitations of days at sea and other restrictions on commercial fishing the 3 local chandleries closed. The forth became a glorified bait shop. They were on the waterfront. The waterfront has changed and is now condos and tourist traps. No longer the working waterfront it once was. There’s a WM but it’s 3m from the waterfront so you need a car to get there...

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We bought our current boat in Somerset and did a ton of work outfitting it for the very long run home. Somerset Marina was very helpful and let us do a lot of work in their yard, which meant I kept running to Newport and surrounding area for 9,000 items. I did visit the WM in Middletown. Got a fantastic pair of binoculars but very few actual boat parts and supplies. Tried the one in Seeconk too, a little better but not much. Isn't Newport Nautical Supply still open though? (Although Newport Nautical wasn't at the waterfront either, we had to rent a car the whole time.) That place was really rough but it was a life saver. Bought a ton of stuff there. That was 2015 though, certainly could have changed a lot by then.

We have an Ace Hardware 5 min from the marina which has a marine section. While not Defender they are a bit less than WM and have a decent selection of the essentials (zincs, paint, parts etc). Typically in the spring when someone is going there they ask if anyone needs anything and either pick up or give a ride. It saves a trip to RT2 and the hassle of traffic. Our running joke is how many times in a day do you go there. My current record is 3.

In defense of WM they did have a part I needed last year when everyone else was out. Cost a few more $$ but got the job done.

Hippocampus said:

In response to the limitations of days at sea and other restrictions on commercial fishing the 3 local chandleries closed. The forth became a glorified bait shop. They were on the waterfront. The waterfront has changed and is now condos and tourist traps. No longer the working waterfront it once was. There’s a WM but it’s 3m from the waterfront so you need a car to get there. Same has occurred throughout my region. Used to be while cruising if you needed something you could get off the boat and walk to a chandlery to get it. Those days are gone with marina stores only carrying commonly used items and selling them at very high prices. Now you rent a ride and go for long drives and perhaps find what you need.
In the past I was a member of the local yacht club. It arranged to be a buying agent for all the members. It often could buy from the manufacturer bypassing wholesale and rental vendors. At least for many things they could be bought wholesale if not from the maker. That feature folded. Too much work and club didn’t want to hire someone to do it.
Still, given how costs have accelerated this maybe a tactic to control costs to the end user. A group would bring a “book of business “ to to a intermediary (could even be a Amazon type). In exchange the intermediary commits to a fixed profit margin.
Wonder if this site or MTOA or other could serve as the organizing focus.

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I read posts about all the chandlery's and afraid it's all so long before my time. We've been on the coast a little less than 10 years so cruising it about 9. I've seen Hopkins Carter close, and one here and there but many had declined before closing.

As to forming groups for wholesale purchases, we are set up as a management company and buy wholesale and a few reasons it wouldn't be worth the effort. First, many have tightened down on who they will set up for discounts. Even WM is a good example as they don't discount anything like Port did. Second, there's a huge issue with wholesalers. Some have consolidated and others gone and others less dependable. Same management issues as West in carrying less inventory. We stock heavily for the boats we manage, because we can't depend on wholesalers. A few brands do such as Ferretti America and Allied for Ferretti, Riva, Pershing and such and engine manufacturers do. But other parts are poorly stocked today. Try getting anything from Dometic and their many companies, a nightmare. The largest boatyards can't get them.

Headline of an ad I just read, "Stop Kicking the Can. Why Companies Must Think Long Term to Solve Supply Chain Challenges." It's at all levels. It's pervasive. It's throughout the entire system, from retailer to raw materials. It requires investment in capacity and inventories. I recall during the time our manufacturing was shut down and time producing masks and gowns, we accepted every fabric order although at some discounts, every raw material. Shocked our suppliers. Others said it will be old styles by the time you use it. How could it get old if never saw retail? Regardless we rented warehouse space and took it. When manufacturing resumed our retail customers were amazed we had fabric as even their foreign suppliers were whining. We never lost a day of production due to lack of materials. In all our businesses, we're still running scared and we do anything possible to maintain inventories and target levels much higher than we did previously. If the delay of a ship by two weeks shuts you down, whose problem is that? Ends up being your problem and I'd say your fault. Decades ago I manufactured in Puerto Rico. My largest fabric supplier was in NC and regularly ran up to two weeks late. We built it into the schedule. What if they were four weeks late? Shipped to PR by plane instead of ship and made it up. Over the years, everyone got lazy and careless. West Marine got lazy and ran out of stock but their distributors can't respond and make it up. The distributors got lazy and careless but their manufacturers can't respond and make it up. Manufacturers got lazy and careless but their raw materials suppliers can't respond and make it up.

West Marine isn't the entire problem but one part of a far greater issue. Oh, and one clarification too. West Marine buys very little other than their private label directly from manufacturers. Nearly everything through distributors.

Off topic side note: I have really fond memories of that area for a number of reasons and we get back there as often as we can (always stay at the America's Cup Inn) but the boat prep marathon was especially memorable. I think his name was Don or Dan at the marina. The boat had been maintained incredibly well by the previous owner, but I needed to switch over all the electronics (AIS, VHS with a display screen, the whole thing), change the hailing port on the stern, make sure every bulb was working, including the steaming light -- and when the boat is on jack stands that radar arch is 900 feet in the air. We expected to run out to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket so it had to be ready for serious water. I remember I worked late into the night one night and the Somerset police rolled into the marina, certain that I was vandalizing the boats. I sure appreciated their diligence, and once I showed them my SD driver's license and the sales paperwork -- and the fact that I was a dirty mess after working on the boat all day, we got into a nice discussion (long way from Mt. Rushmore!). I spent a lot of time in that Ace Hardware too. The work paid off, we spent the next three weeks running about 400 miles eventually nearly to Albany on the Hudson with nearly zero problems, before we had it pulled for trucking home.

(We even thought about buying property on Prudence Island but then COVID hit and RI locked down like Fort Knox, so firmly that we wouldn't have been allowed to retreat there even if we did buy a place. Sadly that permanently changed our mind about real estate on Prudence.)

There is a nice .25 acre lot for sale on Prudence for only $350k. Figure similar amount to build your dream cottage.

BandB said:

Headline of an ad I just read, "Stop Kicking the Can. Why Companies Must Think Long Term to Solve Supply Chain Challenges." It's at all levels. It's pervasive. It's throughout the entire system, from retailer to raw materials. It requires investment in capacity and inventories.

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It's good to hear from someone "in the trenches" about this subject, thank you for an interesting post.

The gospels of "just in time delivery" and "inventory reduction" which businesses have all been following lately never made sense to me. It dawned on me one day that you can consider Amazon to be essentially a warehouse business. They were increasing their inventories when everyone else was busy reducing them. I suspect this goes a long way toward explaining their success. WM is a good example of a company that cut inventory to the bare minimum. I think that's a big part of their problem.

Yes, over the years have learned if I need it now first look at non marine sources rather than WM. Ace, fastenal, plumbing supply etc. can even get non Chinese stainless.

You have to have a masochistic streak to shop @ WM. One to investigate, especially if you set up a business account, is Fisheries Supply out of Seattle. Their inventory is usually great and, if you have a business, so are their prices.

I recently saw somewhere that the original owners of WM had sold out to a holding company. It's anyone's guess as to what the future of WM will be.

It seemed to me that WM went off the rails when they started with Port Supply years ago. Started to really charge retail for everything even their private label stuff.
These CEO's all read the same book, take a going concern into other market channels, forget your distributors, and the people that brung you, pump up for the short term, sell, repeat.
I've had it happen to 3 companies I have represented. One was a world leader and is now a shadow of its former self, the other two are gone.

kolohe9 said:

I recently saw somewhere that the original owners of WM had sold out to a holding company. It's anyone's guess as to what the future of WM will be.

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Nearly a year ago L Catterton acquired them from Monomoy Capital which bought them in 2017 and took them private. Prior to that they were a public company.

L Catterton has lots of retail experience, but none very relevant and, so far, I've seen absolutely nothing from them as to changing West Marine.

Defender vs west marine

I used to avoid WM like the plague but I have come to realize they will do price matching. Check it out. I've saved a lot of money by just doing a quick Amazon search. They will match Amazon if it is "sold by" amazon.

I have shopped WM for convenience, and that’s about all they are good for. I was recently informed that, following a change of ownership, WM has moved away from warrantying back. anything they sell … including WM brand items. Is this true? This certainly would not surprise me, and, if so, it just might be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back.

Mark Laurnen said:

I have shopped WM for convenience, and that’s about all they are good for. I was recently informed that, following a change of ownership, WM has moved away from warrantying back. anything they sell … including WM brand items. Is this true? This certainly would not surprise me, and, if so, it just might be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back.

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Here is their returns policy.

https://www.westmarine.com/CustomerService/Returns-Exchanges

Policy doesn't appear to have changed, but enforcement of it has in terms of forcing you to use manufacturers' warrantees when appropriate.

How bad is WM? My marina sells WM-branded stuff (boat soap, bilge cleaner, that kind of thing) for cheaper than you can get it at the local WM store.

Forgive me if someone has mentioned this -- I didn't have the strength to read 7 pages of comments.


Another possibility is McMaster-Carr -- www.mcmaster.com. They show 3/8" NPT brass ball valves in a variety of styles starting around $12, bronze around $20.


McMaster is the largest industrial hardware store in the world. Their catalog is over 4200 pages of fine print -- 400,000 SKUs, 40,000 different fastenings. The web site is easy to use -- consistently voted in the top ten of commercial web sites. If you place an order before 1830 or so it will ship that day from one of several warehouses. In 4,000 line items over the last 20 years I've had three errors and only a handful of out of stocks.


I buy far more boat stuff from McMaster than from marine stores. If they don't have it, I'll try Hamilton first, then Defender. West only if I need it today -- I can pick it up in an hour.


Jim

Stabi said:

Not sure about other locations in Washington, but in Anacortes, just talk to Carl at Sebo's and he will order from Fisheries, have it the next day in the afternoon, at the online Fisheries price, and the Skagit County Sales tax rate is less than the Seattle Fisheries tax rate at their store.

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Glad that you mentioned Fisheries Supply. Fisheries staring business in 1928, and is still owned, and operated by the same family. They are into the third generation, and have always offered outstanding customer service.
From reading these posts, it seems like this is what most of us are looking for???

Defenders was recently purchased by The Day Company, a Canadian online retailer. Let's see what will.happen to their pricing.

Bensjoy said:

Defenders was recently purchased by The Day Company, a Canadian online retailer. Let's see what will.happen to their pricing.

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Fortnine, funded by Novacap, acquired Defender. I'm not familiar with the Day Company.

Boaters in New England are lucky to have Hamilton Marine at their doorstep - they beat the heck out of WM. The stores have been well stocked (in the past when I've used them). They're online as well, and should be in your list of places to check for items you need. Web site: https://hamiltonmarine.com/

Defenders Purchased

bandb is correct. Fortnine has purchased Defenders Marine in February.

west Marine vs others

Be aware that West Marine will price match.
Also, beware ordering stuff on line and NEVER order anything from Five Oceans in Fla. I ordered chain and line. They sent the wrong size and quality and would not give me a refund. I also paid shipping to send it back.

I have a 'Pro' account and get a discount by spending over 5k/yr.
Their 3/8 fuel hose price to me is $4.72 - still about 50% higher than Defender.

One maybe good thing about WM.
I've been paying less than 20 bucks per time for replacement macerator pumps.
I buy the 2 year warranty at around $19, they never last 2 years, so I get a replacement, take out another warranty and off we go again.
However, if anyone knows of a more reliable pump than Jabsco (latest one lasted one pump out) please let me know.

mickand said:

I have a 'Pro' account and get a discount by spending over 5k/yr.

Their 3/8 fuel hose price to me is $4.72 - still about 50% higher than Defender.

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I’ve found with the Pro account it stills pays to check with Defender. If you’re fine with a WM branded item it’s generally a lot cheaper than the name brand at Defender. With a name brand item it can go either way between Pro price and Defender price.

John

One thing too that we all tend to overlook is West Marine does a lot of business from those of us who "don't shop there". We may buy the majority of our purchases elsewhere, but even a little from thousands of us adds up. That's the thing, it's not like they're doing no business. It's just as I look at what they're doing versus what I think they could be doing that I find it so disappointing. Unfortunately, that difference is often the difference between success and failure, profit and loss.

mickand said:

One maybe good thing about WM.
I've been paying less than 20 bucks per time for replacement macerator pumps.
I buy the 2 year warranty at around $19, they never last 2 years, so I get a replacement, take out another warranty and off we go again.
However, if anyone knows of a more reliable pump than Jabsco (latest one lasted one pump out) please let me know.

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maybe try one of the t series pumps. https://www.fisheriessupply.com/dometic-t-series-waste-discharge-pump-with-whisper-quiet-motor
this is essentially the same pump vacuflush systems use only without the extra check valves.
whale also makes some waste pumps that probably work well. i had a manual one that was super dependable, never tried the electric ones, but whale is good stuff.
the diaphragm pumps don't have the grinder in them though, so if you need that function you might be stuck, although there's a heavy duty version of the jabsco macerator you could try. https://www.fisheriessupply.com/jabsco-heavy-duty-macerator-pumps/18690-0000

One brief trip isn't representative of anything, but ...

I was killing time about a month ago and stopped into a WM location. I was nearby at the time, and thinking about a few project things. With a boat on order, at some point I'll have a mountain of sundry items to buy. It was a Saturday, but Feb isn't prime season. One guy on duty out front, chatting with someone the whole time I was in the store. Helping a customer? Or goofing off, I didn't try to differentiate. I didn't need assistance, but wasn't offered any either. But, he had the look of someone not particularly happy in his job. One other kid briefly came out of some back room and avoided eye contact with me.

There were 3-4 other customers in the store too, and they were not offered any assistance.

My point is, I walked out at the time thinking that WM has lost any engagement and effort from its front line staff.

FWT said:

One brief trip isn't representative of anything, but ...

I was killing time about a month ago and stopped into a WM location. I was nearby at the time, and thinking about a few project things. With a boat on order, at some point I'll have a mountain of sundry items to buy. It was a Saturday, but Feb isn't prime season. One guy on duty out front, chatting with someone the whole time I was in the store. Helping a customer? Or goofing off, I didn't try to differentiate. I didn't need assistance, but wasn't offered any either. But, he had the look of someone not particularly happy in his job. One other kid briefly came out of some back room and avoided eye contact with me.

There were 3-4 other customers in the store too, and they were not offered any assistance.

My point is, I walked out at the time thinking that WM has lost any engagement and effort from its front line staff.

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One of my most admired retailers is Quiktrip Convenience stores. You cannot enter without being greeted although the new store layouts impact that some. The point is that employees are treated well and expected to treat customers well, and this is in a convenience store.

Ace Hardware repeatedly comes out tops in surveys of service. You see the commercials, now with the theme of "The Helpful Place." Certainly not true of 100% of stores or employees, but if you make it a theme, emphasize it, then it can happen and work.

But you must hire the right employees and provide them the training and incentives. You cannot try to save money on inventory and save money on employees and achieve good service. You invest in service. Back to Quiktrip, their employee benefits are great models for any business.

I'm afraid your trip is representative. I'm always appalled at retailers who have only part time workers, mostly students, working on weekends when they are busiest.