Helmsman 38E V 43

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This was a great thread. I've got a contract on a Helmsman 37 Sedan for delivery around May 2023. I know most(all?) of you are on Pilothouses, but I really wanted a 2 stateroom boat with 4 foot draft or less. The tradeoffs you all mentioned were a lot of my thinking as well. I really appreciate all the conversations around options too. Helping me fill in my own list as time approaches.

Two key ones for me: I'm having a custom box up top for an extra fridge and electric grill. And I'm having the flybridge rail moved forward a little so that everything aft of the bridge deck hatch is railed off, and Scott & Co are putting a solar panel setup aft of that.
 
Oh yeah, for dinghy, I've decided to do a hurley 3.0 system on the swim platform and have side doors on both sides of the boat to make boarding for us and dogs easier.

Newt
 
Two key ones for me: I'm having a custom box up top for an extra fridge and electric grill. And I'm having the flybridge rail moved forward a little so that everything aft of the bridge deck hatch is railed off, and Scott & Co are putting a solar panel setup aft of that.

In particular that rail and solar panel idea sounds like a really good idea on that design. Kudos
 
We are working on the 38E with a planned delivery in Feb 2024 (our delay not Helmsmans) and will be interested to hear how that Davit system works out. Did you need an extended swim platform?

Matt
 
You’d have to check to make sure the platform and transom are the same height as on the 37 Sedan. If so the Hurley would work. I’d also check with Scott on weight though. The sedan has the hull structural to part of the platform while the 38 isn’t.
 
Has anyone done the loop in the 38E? I’m trying to look up the air draft as well. I have a bigger trawler on the west coast but was thinking of one of these for the east coast - and letting my relatives use it. I want to spend some time there.

I like the layout of the 38E and my only concerns have been outdoor space as well as carrying a larger tender.
 
People are doing and have done the loop on a 38, or a Mariner 37 which is the older version. There is a guy that moved his 37 to the Illinois river and is in Florida right now On his way around. The air draft is currently about 17 feet to the top of the anchor light and approximately 14’10” to the top of the arch. Not sure if that is the same for the mast.

The arch and mast are hinged and the lowest bridge on the loop is in the western Erie Canal at about 15 feet. You can go around that by going through Canada. Most people really enjoy the CAnadian portion of the loop. I think there is one or two bridges in downtown Chicago where you would drop the mast also. The absolute lowest bridge you have to clear is in the 19 foot range south of Chicago. The 4 foot water draft would not be an issue.

The AGLCA is the group to join to start learning more about the loop. I can get you in touch with Kim Russo (owner of the site) if you want to talk with her before joining. Once you are a member, you can search for the boat type and contact members who have done, are doing, or planning to in a 38e. Just let me know.
 
Has anyone done the loop in the 38E? I’m trying to look up the air draft as well. I have a bigger trawler on the west coast but was thinking of one of these for the east coast - and letting my relatives use it. I want to spend some time there.

I like the layout of the 38E and my only concerns have been outdoor space as well as carrying a larger tender.

Done the Loop: I think so but can't swear to it. It is very Loop-capable. The Loop isn't the top of my list to do but I might and thus made sure the boat can do it. It has plenty of fuel range, way past the limit need along the Mississippi / TennTom area where there is a long run without fuel availability. As far as air draft goes, its 17.6 feet with mast up (maybe more with electronics and antennas) but under 13 feet with mast folded down for those few short bridges in Chicago. Per Scott, quite some time back by email.

As far as tender space goes, I don't know the exact dimensions of the dink space from railing to railing, but I am sure you saw the boat has a beam of 13'11". The top deck will measure most of that but not all. Knock off a few more inches to account for the rails inside of the edges. I'd guess 12 feet or better in room. Scott could give it you in a quick email, and I wouldn't hesitate to ask. Others have chosen to carry it off the swim platform, and you can bite off as much of that 13'11" as you dare.
 
Not yet! Should not be a problem though, even for the western Erie Canal.

The laser level point I shot from the top of the bridge windshield was 12’ 3” above the water with both fuel tanks at ½ and the fresh water tank at ¼. The top of the bimini rises another 33” bringing the air draft total up to exactly 15’. The radar mast rises 9’ 11” from the bridge deck and the laser level shows bridge deck at 99” above the water with the tanks as listed above. That adds up to 218”, or 18’ 2”.
 
We have done a good chunk of the loop on our 43 on the East side. Including Lake Champlain which was 16' due to flooding and we passed with no issue. Had to lower the mast down, but didn't have to touch the bimini.

Both the 43 and 38 will easily clear the 19' Chicago bridge
 
Helmsman 38

We were asked to make a comment in this thread so here it go’s.
Sitting here in Vero Beach, FL on our Mariner 37 Pilothouse 2008 480HP after our Great Loop start 9/2021 after trucking from Blaine WA. We all know the difference between this boat and the Helmsman 38E.
Our air draft is 17’8” to anchor light and antennas down. 14’ 10 air draft with Bimini. We clear most bridges. Draft 3’10” but we say 4’. It’s just the wife and I with the occasional visiting Inlaw who loves the lowering table in the galley and the day head wet bath (comfortable) and very private with the curtain installed at the steps to the Pilothouse.
Our experience going down and up the Illinois, Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee, Tombigbee, Mobile rivers & AICW was very good partly because our draft was never a problem getting into places we wanted. The boats have imho just the right draft if your paying attention ( a good compromise).The air draft from Seneca, Illinois to Fort Myers to Okeechobee onto Miami and so far up here to Vero Beach has been pleasant with only a few bridges we waited on and had We chose to lower the mast we’d waited even less. I guess I’m saying air draft can be managed with the Helmsman giving a pleasant traveling experience.

We cruise between 3 gph and 9gph depending on current or mood. The 7.8 hull speed says the rest. The admiral loves stretching out in the Pilothouse while the skipper sits attentively driving with remote autopilot inside at the helm. One of the most asked questions has where do we steer from the most and that would be inside. Especially docking the low railing is easier to help one hand the boat docking. Long cruising in the open waters we tend to drive Chariot. The second most common question we get is. Who builds that boat what is it.
It’s been a great looper boat for us the way we use it and we’re still happy we chose it.
We have a custom hub on the prop and have re pitched , 450ah bank 450w PV standard frig and a portable dometic deep freezer, 6.5kw genset two heat pumps ,diesel heat,
Seawise Davit on stern AB 10VSX with 20hp Tohotsu can deploy or stow in 4 1/2 min one person. Boat isn’t too heavy and it cost less as a package ( that worked for us) and lots of usable upper deck space all the time.

I’ll add that Scott has always been readily available and quick to help if we had any issues.
Hope this sheds light on the question.
Remember life is full of trade offs pick what’s best for you.
We like the percentage rule ��
 
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We were asked to make a comment in this thread so here it go’s.
Sitting here in Vero Beach, FL on our Mariner 37 Pilothouse 2008 480HP after our Great Loop start 9/2021 after trucking from Blaine WA. We all know the difference between this boat and the Helmsman 38E.
Our air draft is 17’8” to anchor light and antennas down. 14’ air draft with Bimini. We clear most bridges. Draft 3’10” but we say 4’. It’s just the wife and I with the occasional visiting Inlaw who loves the lowering table in the galley and the day head wet bath (comfortable) and very private with the curtain installed at the steps to the Pilothouse.
Our experience going down and up the Illinois, Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee, Tombigbee, Mobile rivers & AICW was very good partly because our draft was never a problem getting into places we wanted. The boats have imho just the right draft if your paying attention ( a good compromise).The air draft from Seneca, Illinois to Fort Myers to Okeechobee onto Miami and so far up here to Vero Beach has been pleasant with only a few bridges we waited on and had We chose to lower the mast we’d waited even less. I guess I’m saying air draft can be managed with the Helmsman giving a pleasant traveling experience.

We cruise between 3 gph and 9gph depending on current or mood. The 7.8 hull speed says the rest. The admiral loves stretching out in the Pilothouse while the skipper sits attentively driving with remote autopilot inside at the helm. One of the most asked questions has where do we steer from the most and that would be inside. Especially docking the low railing is easier to help one hand the boat docking. Long cruising in the open waters we tend to drive Chariot. The second most common question we get is. Who builds that boat what is it.
It’s been a great looper boat for us the way we use it and we’re still happy we chose it.
We have a custom hub on the prop and have re pitched , 450ah bank 450w PV standard frig and a portable dometic deep freezer.
Seawise Davit on stern AB 10VSX with 20hp Tohotsu can deploy or stow in 4 1/2 min one person. Boat isn’t too heavy and it cost less as a package ( that worked for us) and lots of usable upper deck space all the time.

I’ll add that Scott has always been readily available and quick to help if we had any issues.
Hope this sheds light on the question.
Remember life is full of trade offs pick what’s best for you.
We like the percentage rule ��

And there is the “guy on the loop”! :)
Thanks for bringing the perspective.
 
As far as tender space goes, I don't know the exact dimensions of the dink space from railing to railing, but I am sure you saw the boat has a beam of 13'11". The top deck will measure most of that but not all. Knock off a few more inches to account for the rails inside of the edges. I'd guess 12 feet or better in room. Scott could give it you in a quick email, and I wouldn't hesitate to ask. Others have chosen to carry it off the swim platform, and you can bite off as much of that 13'11" as you dare.


My H38E came with an AB10VSX RIB with a 20hp Tohatsu outboard; the AB10VSX is actually 10'6" and sitting crosswise on chocks with the engine raised on the upper deck, it just barely fits between the rails--maybe an inch or so to spare on each size. This is absolutely the largest size dinghy I would suggest it you plan to carry it topside on a H38.
 
My H38E came with an AB10VSX RIB with a 20hp Tohatsu outboard; the AB10VSX is actually 10'6" and sitting crosswise on chocks with the engine raised on the upper deck, it just barely fits between the rails--maybe an inch or so to spare on each size. This is absolutely the largest size dinghy I would suggest it you plan to carry it topside on a H38.

Thanks for that. To be really clear, that is 10'6" from the bow to the tip of the raised outboard, right?
 
No, 10"6' is the measurement of the length of the RIB itself without outboard (according to the AB brochure). The outboard extends beyond that. (I am not on my boat so can't take the measurement.) Together they just fit between the rails.
BTW, I estimate the AB 10VSX (which has a steering console, electric start, etc.), together with 20hp engine, loaded fuel tank, spare fuel tank, battery, dinghy anchor, etc. to weigh in the neighborhood of 450 lbs. That is the very upper end of what I would want to hoist to the top deck, especially given how tight a fit it is. (Were I to buy a new RIB, I would opt for something the same size but lighter, perhaps an aluminum bottom.)
 
Great. Many thanks.

I'm going with an ePropulsion I won't leave on the dink. Plenty of room to go with anything I choose to get.
 
Great. Many thanks.



I'm going with an ePropulsion I won't leave on the dink. Plenty of room to go with anything I choose to get.


I have an Epropulsion unit and use it when I don’t need the big 15hp Suzuki. Have been very satisfied with it.
 
I have an Epropulsion unit and use it when I don’t need the big 15hp Suzuki. Have been very satisfied with it.

Thanks for the observation. Unless something better comes along before its time to pull the trigger, that's the plan.
 
Two key ones for me: I'm having a custom box up top for an extra fridge and electric grill. And I'm having the flybridge rail moved forward a little so that everything aft of the bridge deck hatch is railed off, and Scott & Co are putting a solar panel setup aft of that.

Interesting mods, Newt. That's on a Sedan 37, right?
 
I’m new to trawlers and this thread has been amazing, thank you. I’ve been a decent sailor and have been looking for my first trawler. This will be my first boat. I’ve looked at the N41 but I really like the H38E and the H43E, I have yet to board either and hope to be in contact with Scott soon. I need to get my wife to fall in love with one or the other. Do you guys have any concerns about 2nd engine or a wing engine. I hope to be on extended cruises, I am in Los Angeles and have some lofty dreams of heading Deep South and very far north. Thanks again!
 
I’m new to trawlers and this thread has been amazing, thank you. I’ve been a decent sailor and have been looking for my first trawler. This will be my first boat. I’ve looked at the N41 but I really like the H38E and the H43E, I have yet to board either and hope to be in contact with Scott soon. I need to get my wife to fall in love with one or the other. Do you guys have any concerns about 2nd engine or a wing engine. I hope to be on extended cruises, I am in Los Angeles and have some lofty dreams of heading Deep South and very far north. Thanks again!

You might want to check this current thread for a long and still ongoing conversation about that.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/operating-cost-single-verses-twins-64041.html

Lots of strong opinion, with both sides represented by experienced and knowledgeable cruisers. Pick your poison.

I have an H38 on order. I chose my side.
 
I don't represent Helmsman, and Scott at Helmsman can state the point better than I can. But there is an aspect to the boats I bought into. Maybe you will or maybe you won't agree, but I'll take a crack at describing it.

Simplicity, reliability, maintainable. Its a basic design philosophy.

The hull shape isn't as roll-y as some. Can roll be improved by stabilizers? Sure, some. At a cost, and a cost in space. But the hull form doesn't mandate the need the way some do. Personally, I wanted a hull form that didn't NEED stabilizers as a requirement.

Its a coastal cruiser, and not designed to cross oceans. Windows, exhaust systems, and so forth would need to be hardened to be rated for that. But as a coastal cruiser its built like a tank. Thick solid hull, well protected prop and rudder, and a lot of range for a coastal cruiser of this size. The mechanical gear is name brand stuff, they don't cheap out on that, and piece by piece its probably gear you would personally spec out if given the choice.

It has an honest engine room. Not a big enough boat to have a standup engine room, but as roomy as any for the size of the boat. You can get to and service what needs to be serviced.

So the package that begins with simplicity also begets an economical package, that if you do your part can be maintained to a level that begets reliability. Not redundency at high cost and associated need to maintain, and exercised regularly, that can fail by being ignored as the number of systems proliferate.

Pack spares, and with bilge spaces not clogged up with stabilizers and wing engines you have room to carry them.

Its a different way of looking at things. One can agree or disagree, and everyone can be right for their own needs. There is no one correct view.

Some might say Nordhavn, with redundant everything, and supremely hardened for the worst is the way to go, and others might say overkill. The answer is, whatever seems best for you, probably is.
 
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Well put FWT. I truly think it is use case. What do you want the boat to do? The 38 and 43 are coastal cruisers, and my opinion is that they will do that better than any other boat. Others will have other opinions. We can only go by what we know. Researched a lot. One of the nice things about retirement. Like it better than any other boat.
 
Thanks. I agree.

You know, I'm a big believer that I can be wrong. You have to make decisions, but even once made I still study it. I have continued to window shop, and lets face it, if you like boats that's fun and no hardship. I have yet to see a boat I would rather have. That's a pretty happy state of affairs.
 
I think they make a very nice boat. Looked at them and went back and forth with Helmsman and North Pacific. Both companies are very reputable. Ultimately went with NP 45 due to the saloon layout and I liked that everything was included to cruise, eg electronics, Genny, air etc. Understand that others may want less options and a different price point. I wanted everything. No issues with a single Cummins either. You have to go with what speaks to you. Enjoy!
 
I think they make a very nice boat. Looked at them and went back and forth with Helmsman and North Pacific. Both companies are very reputable. Ultimately went with NP 45 due to the saloon layout and I liked that everything was included to cruise, eg electronics, Genny, air etc. Understand that others may want less options and a different price point. I wanted everything. No issues with a single Cummins either. You have to go with what speaks to you. Enjoy!

What Jim said! Liked the idea of a complete (to me) boat ready to cruise. It was also very easy to make the minor changes we wanted.

Firmly believe you can't go wrong with either.

Rob
 
NP45 is certainly a great boat. Pretty similar design of course.

Its also a lot more boat than a H38, and that creates more room for some layout aspects, for a lot more money.

Its also taller. Air draft is an issue for the Loop, but probably not a relevant concern in the PNW. The Loop isn't a priority for me, but I do want that option.

If I were in the market for that much boat, I'd certainly have it on my short list.

No doubt you guys like it, because its a great boat.
 
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