Zincs

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BandB said:
Our diver had a customer who insisted on zinc and was constantly having problems although claiming he only boated on the two coasts, about half the time on the Atlantic and half on the Gulf. Switched to aluminum and no more problems.
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Hi B,

Can you please elaborate on what "problems" you are talking about?
 
backinblue said:
Hi B,

Can you please elaborate on what "problems" you are talking about?
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The zincs would have a coating on them preventing them from being effective. They'd keep scraping it off and it would be back again months later. The boat owner loved Lake Okeechobee and this is what happens when zincs are in fresh water. Had they just gone through the lake on a short run it would not have been a problem, but they'd spend a week or two transiting, taking lots of time to fish and alligator watch. The diver was shocked how quickly it was impacted as he thought it would take months of fresh water.
 
Thanks B. I am aware of that issue, thanks for clarifying. I agree with you that AL should be the new default, it's kind of surprising how slowly that change is happening, if at all.
 
Consider installing a galvanic isolator on your boat's AC ground to prevent stray current from other boats consuming your zincs. With that many zinc anodes, you will save it's cost in just a few years.
 
What amazes me is that it took 100 + years for all the metal techs and scientists, as well as marine electrolysis/galvanization experts to sufficiently comprehend [now expound upon] that a simple ol' aluminum mixture is better than zinc in salt water and better than magnesium in freshwater. Did some of the insiders have a lock on the market regarding the quick deteriorating anode metal "Zinc"???

By God... I think it may be a century old conspiracy!! :eek:

Naw... only kidding! :lol:
 
Art said:
What amazes me is that it took 100 + years for all the metal techs and scientists, as well as marine electrolysis/galvanization experts to sufficiently comprehend [now expound upon] that a simple ol' aluminum mixture is better than zinc in salt water and better than magnesium in freshwater. :
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Not exactly a huge market to pursue. Also I don't think the simple ol' aluminum mixture was as easily arrived at as simple would imply. Then I think, something we see today, is people have been convinced it must be zinc and a lot of old boaters still swearing it's so. You've obviously heard of "old wives tales" but nothing is stronger than "old fishermen tales" and "old boater tales." Improvements made in boating have come hard because of the resistance of boaters.
 
@Benchmark #34:
Consider installing a galvanic isolator on your boat's AC ground to prevent stray current from other boats consuming your zincs.
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Just to be a bit more precise, the GI will block cathodic protection current produced by Boat A from transiting to Boat B to protect Boat B's underwater metal via the shore power safety ground wire.
 
Comodave said:
Maybe, but I don’t have to shop there.
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Dave - Didn't mean I like it. I also do not sign up unless absolutely needed to get a part/item. Then, if I'm sent their consistently, annoying crap-ad emails... I put em in junk folder! Problem is... some of the "must sign up" BSers sell/trade email and phone with other BSers... therefore creating some incoming contact ads that also need go to junk.

Guess this is called 2022 Life 101! :facepalm:
 
I have dealt with Performance Metals and will guess that the sign up may be due to the fact that they sell primarily wholesale to retailers.
When I first contacted them about 8 yrs ago they first attempted to connect me with a retailer in my area. When they could not identify one close they then told me I could order direct from them. I forget the details whether prices were online at that time but will guess it wasn't.
I'm not defending the sign in / sign up procedure but above may explain the basis.
 
An isolation transformer will also reduce zinc consumption by your marina neighbors since the shore side ground is connected to the transformers case instead of the boats grounding circuit. It eliminates the use of earth as ground on your boat so has other positive safety attributes. And allows trouble free shore connection to marinas with ELCI.

Sandpiper has always been equipped with an isolation transformer so have not changed license plate zinc or thruster zinc in over 20 years. The zincs do not get consumed at all.

I test all my underwater metals with a multimeter and half cell several times a year to insure good electrical connection and adequate protection of the various metals. I only have two thru-hulls, one shaft, one prop, one rudder post, one rudder shoe and a thruster that are underwater metals.

The only zinc needing change is the prop shaft zinc every couple years. I'm not sure why that zinc gets consumed since there is a shaft brush aft of the electrically isolating Federal flexible coupling. Stainless shaft and bronze are dissimilar but the brush connected to the plate zinc should mitigate consumption. A mystery I can live with.
 
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@syjos #46
An isolation transformer will also reduce zinc consumption by your marina neighbors since the shore side ground is connected to the transformers case instead of the boats grounding circuit.
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Not actually. To be ABYC compliant with a standard iron core/copper wound isolation transformer, the safety ground from shore is brought aboard and connected to the, now required, electrostatic shield between the primary and secondary windings. The N>G bond is made at the xfmr secondary and includes the case.

PS
I love your quote...I feel the same way after 22 years in the business.
 
I am using Navalloy for 2 reasons, I move from Tennessee to the Caribbean, and sometimes put the boat on the hard for touch ups in Demopolis AL. The zincs would have to be cleaned before launching again, Not the Navalloy. How many people clean the oxide off their zincs?
 
SteveandZoila said:
I am using Navalloy for 2 reasons, I move from Tennessee to the Caribbean, and sometimes put the boat on the hard for touch ups in Demopolis AL. The zincs would have to be cleaned before launching again, Not the Navalloy. How many people clean the oxide off their zincs?
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Here's one!

When I used zinc rather than aluminum... I religiously scrapped/brushed my boat's zinc anodes' surface clean. Holding my breath for repeat swims under boat with mask, fins and BBQ scraper/bronze-brush firmly in hand.
 
CharlieJ said:
@syjos #46
Not actually. To be ABYC compliant with a standard iron core/copper wound isolation transformer, the safety ground from shore is brought aboard and connected to the, now required, electrostatic shield between the primary and secondary windings. The N>G bond is made at the xfmr secondary and includes the case.

PS
I love your quote...I feel the same way after 22 years in the business.
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Yea, I'm old school,, still following Nigel Calders recommendations from a few years ago, that still works.

Do pleasure boats now require ABYC compliance or is it recommended? I always tried to follow ABYC but disagreed with some of their logic.

Thanks about quote. 22 years is a long time in the boating business now-a-days. I've seen a lot of short lived marine businesses in the last few decades. Thirty plus years ago, there were tons of marine businesses that were 20 plus years old but usually 50 plus years. It's a volatile industry for the smaller businesses now. Which is surprising with so many new boaters.
 
monti said:
I have ordered a new set of sinks from boatsinks.com and I find that the price is 1/2 of what the diver charged me.
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What's your point? That the diver isn't entitled to earn a profit on the parts he sources, purchases, inventories and delivers to you?

monti said:
Any thoughts on the above regarding divers and zincs would be appreciated.
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Expect to pay significantly more on the installation labor for anodes that you supply.
 
fstbttms said:
What's your point? That the diver isn't entitled to earn a profit on the parts he sources, purchases, inventories and delivers to you?



Expect to pay significantly more on the installation labor for anodes that you supply.
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I agree 100%

Did not have tolerance for clients that provided items for us to install. If a repeat client and the provided item was minor, not an issue. But with prospective clients and/or higher priced items, usually bid high on those.

No different than a restaurant charging a corkage fee.
 
syjos said:
Did not have tolerance for clients that provided items for us to install.
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Over the years I have flip-flopped multiple times about whether or not to install customer-supplied anodes. We currently do, but as usual, that policy has come back to bite both me and the customer in the ass. Last week we cleaned the hull of a new client's boat and he instructed us to replace the prop anode regardless of condition. Further, he would supply the anode. Well, of course he left the wrong size anode and (not anticipating having to supply one for him), my diver didn't have one to to use instead. Now the customer has the option of paying us to make a separate trip out to replace it out of our inventory (or his) or finding somebody else to do it cheaper.

In any event, I charge double our usual anode installation labor rate to install customer-supplied anodes. Any diver who installs customer-supplied anodes for free (as previously mentioned) isn't a particularly good businessperson, IMHO.
 
fstbttms said:
In any event, I charge double our usual anode installation labor rate to install customer-supplied anodes. Any diver who installs customer-supplied anodes for free (as previously mentioned) isn't a particularly good businessperson, IMHO.
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We supply our own, but not to save money. We do so as we stock a substantial supply of each one we use and keep them available and properly labeled and we control the quality of the anode. We don't save money though, likely spend a little more. We just maintain control of which anodes are used.
 
BandB said:
We supply our own, but not to save money. We do so as we stock a substantial supply of each one we use and keep them available and properly labeled and we control the quality of the anode. We don't save money though, likely spend a little more. We just maintain control of which anodes are used.
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What brand do you use and why?
 
fstbttms said:
What brand do you use and why?
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If there is an OEM available aluminum anode, we use it. Many of our equipment manufacturers now have such. Otherwise, we us Navalloy. Now, Navalloy was originally sold by SciCast in Pennsylvania, but we get ours from Performance Metals which uses Caldwell Casting in Maryland. Performance specializes in this product for boating applications rather than being a huge metal shop. Our engineers praise their consistency of manufacturing. We do not encounter differences lot to lot. Like most major aluminum anodes they are also cadmium free. If we were on the west coast we might use someone else. Would love to hear your comments. We like that Performance Metals only deals in Aluminum and that they are specialists in anodes for boating users.

A couple of additional notes. First, Maryland has proposed a ban on zinc anodes and California has had some talk.

Second, there is a supply chain issue on magnesium anodes for any fresh water boaters. Why? Although there is magnesium in the US, magnesium anodes are all from China according to Farwest.

Oh, and we recently switched to Navalloy on Yamahas because of problems getting them from Yamaha and inconsistent manufacturing, with very slight fit differences from order to order.

So, I got educated overnight by those more knowledgeable than I am.
 
Very few of my many hundreds of clients request aluminum anodes. For those that do, I typically use Reliance brand. I have no experience with Performance Metals and am unlikely to, as they are not available at the chandlery local to me where I buy the great majority of my anodes nor are they available from boatzincs.com, where I buy the rest.
 
fstbttms said:
Very few of my many hundreds of clients request aluminum anodes. For those that do, I typically use Reliance brand. I have no experience with Performance Metals and am unlikely to, as they are not available at the chandlery local to me where I buy the great majority of my anodes nor are they available from boatzincs.com, where I buy the rest.
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Any experience and comments on Martyr and Sea Shield?

Most of your clients still on zinc? Well, means more frequent replacement so good for your business.

We buy direct from Performance Metals rather than locally or boatzincs but we're buying to replenish our inventory and only for a few boats and ribs. I guess in all that come through us, 8 inboards, 1 center console, 12 jet ribs that we keep anodes for, but 100% aluminum.
 
BandB said:
Any experience and comments on Martyr and Sea Shield?
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My personal preference is for Reliance but some of my divers like Martyr due to the Allen head fasteners, so I carry those as well. I find no difference in quality between the two brands (although that was not always the case.) Sea Shield is also high quality and I like them but again, not available from my anode supplier so I usually only buy a couple of styles (slotted teardrops, large and small) from one of their dealers.
 
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