Additives

Know this has probably been asked before but things change. So

What additives do you use at present? Are different additives more suitable for different types of engines?

Thanks all

Hippocampus said:

Know this has probably been asked before but things change. So



What additives do you use at present? Are different additives more suitable for different types of engines?



Thanks all

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Assume you mean diesel fuel additives. I use Stanadyne. Recommended by several diesel wonks who I respect.

As always, decent article by Steve D

https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/diesel-fuel-additives-part-i/

Peter

Greetings,
Mr. (Dr.) H. The ONLY additive I have ever used is Bio-Bor for "bug" control. Our current boat is in FL.



In a past life, shortly after purchasing our first diesel I contacted the Fuels and Lubes lab at the National Research Council of Canada and asked what their recommendation(s) for additives might be. At that time, about 20 years or so ago, they said regular oil changes and clean fuel were the only things I should be concerned about. Any "mouse milks" they had tested provided no advantages.



I don't recall if the question of growth in the fuel tanks ever came up as this was in Canada and I suspect the cooler temperatures prevented or minimized biological fuel contamination.

Thanks Peter. Particularly liked part 2. Currently use Stanadyne and if anything other than Valvtect goes in biobor. Is that what most people are doing?

A good treatment such as Stanadyne will remediate small amounts of water - without water, there are no bugs. Without bugs, no need for Bio-bor. There are two ways to do this - put the water in suspension so it separates-out in the Racor, or emulsify it so it gets burned-up. Former is strongly recommended which is what Stanadyne does. Incidentally, Stanadyne is one of the most respected names in diesel injection pumps. Tough to second guess them.

Hippocampus - given your background (both maritime and profession), I am curious to hear what you decide. You seem to be one of those types who tugs at something until you've found the right answer.

Peter

I try to purchase only ValvTect diesel which alledgedly has a good additive package. They have responsive customer service and I asked about winterizing since they claim their fuel is already stabilzed. They suggested adding their BioGuard for winter storage. During the season I also use some of this, but at less than recommended amounts if I am already using ValvTect fuel. It's recommened by Mack Boring, a huge Yanmar distributer and diesel expert on the East coast.

https://fppf.com/product/total-power/

Did take the Mack Boring course back in the day but my concern then was very small auxiliary screw engines for sailboats. Anything change when dealing with larger modern common rail primary propulsion engines as regards additives?
Sounds like Total Power is a good alternative. Anyone else using it?

Hippocampus said:

Did take the Mack Boring course back in the day but my concern then was very small auxiliary screw engines for sailboats. Anything change when dealing with larger modern common rail primary propulsion engines as regards additives?
Sounds like Total Power is a good alternative. Anyone else using it?

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I actually sent Mack Boring an email just now asking about their recommendation for my particular engine. 315 HP Yanmar Y6LP engine. I have found them to be helpful and responsive in the past. I'll report back if I get a response.

Speaking of Total Power, They used to have a similar product that was labled specifically for Marine use. I did not cofirm but I would be willing to bet it's the same product with a different label. That is not uncommon if you are trying to market your product specifically to boaters. I'm far from an expert and can't verify whether these additives actually help. I suspect YPPF, Stanadyne, and Valvtect are good products. I have witnessed some snake oils being hawked at boat shows that I would avoid. They pretty much all claim the same benefits. I can say that my boat always starts instantly, never even hear it crank. There is no smoke at any RPM. I figure it's cheap insurance to search for ValvTect fuel and still use some additives, but sparingly.

I use something called "Bio Protect 2", which I add to my diesel tanks in the fall before layup, in the spring at launch and anytime prior to when the boat might be sitting unused for an extended period with the tanks less than full. I use this to prevent what they call "diesel pest" here. Bio bugs. I've used this for 12 years now and have had ZERO problems with my fuel.

I believe this product is only available in Scandinavia, but have mentioned it in this thread because I know we have a few TF members in Scandinavia.

Fiendishly expensive. Not using such a product, however, could be more so...

The link below is for the manufacturer, but the product is available in most marine stores (in Sweden and Denmark, at least).

https://www.kf-maritim.se/pages.php/page/foretagsinformation?osCsid=0a61e396cfb724f2f3e06aa780128651

Know with many things too much is as bad as too little. Is that true with additives?

I have on rare occasions used additives, but generally I use nothing but diesel.

The exception would be adding anti-gel for winter in a diesel vehicle, but only for extreme temperature drops (sub zero).

That's for 30 plus years with diesel boats and vehicles.

Hippocampus said:

Know with many things too much is as bad as too little. Is that true with additives?

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I'm sure it can be.
Diesel pest is a significant concern around here, so I view using a Bio Protect type of additive as less risky than not. But this discussion could be entirely "region-relative"...
I admit, I have not deeply immersed myself in this subject, but what I pick up from reading in boating magazines, harbor offices and decals on fuel pumps at the dock is that marine diesel is traditionally free of most environmental additives. While these environmental additives are great for automotive fuel, they apparently can encourage diesel pest when added to fuel used for boats (i.e. sitting a long time, wild temperature changes, condensation build up, etc. It's the condensation that kicks off the diesel pest risk, as I understand it.)

Hippocampus said:

Did take the Mack Boring course back in the day but my concern then was very small auxiliary screw engines for sailboats. Anything change when dealing with larger modern common rail primary propulsion engines as regards additives?

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Not common rail, but: for 23 years and 185K miles, mostly towing, I used only Stanadyne Performance Formula in my 98.5 Dodge Ram with 24-valve electronic controls Cummins ISB. Less smoke, quieter and smoother at startup. Presumably good in other ways, but hard to prove.

Also for 6,500 hours over 17 summers of cruising in my 26-footer's 260hp Volvo KAD44P, also 24-valve and electronic controls. And the last six summers and 3,850 hours in my NT's 330hp Cummins 5.9 M3.

Have read a ton of articles on the subject, both in the truck world and in boats. Seems to me Stanadyne is about as good as it gets. Buy in cases of six half gallons for about $190 - inexpensive per mile.

FWIW, I just found this study from 2007

https://www.dieselplace.com/threads/lubricity-additive-study-results.177728/

If i understand correctly the opti lube contains a demulsifier and from steve d’s article that may not be a good idea for many. Rather have a racor do it’s job than have water at the bottom of a tank. Surprised stanadyn didn’t do better in that testing protocol.

backinblue said:

FWIW, I just found this study from 2007

https://www.dieselplace.com/threads/lubricity-additive-study-results.177728/

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Yes that study has been discussed in this forum in the past.

I have had materials tested using that method on several occasions in my engineering career and it's a good test that yields accurate and consistent results.

Hippocampus said:

If i understand correctly the opti lube contains a demulsifier and from steve d’s article that may not be a good idea for many. Rather have a racor do it’s job than have water at the bottom of a tank. Surprised stanadyn didn’t do better in that testing protocol.

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I was thinking the same thing Hippo. However, just like anchor tests, it's probaly not going to give you a single answer and also companies like YPPF, Stanadyne, and others, make a variety of products so you need to look at exactly what was tested and not just brand name. I've been trying to figure this out for years and have settled on buying ValvTect fuel and adding some additives at about half the recommended concentration just for extra insurance. When buying ValvTect fuel you have to trust the marina and the fuel delivery and storage that everything has been done to their standards but you really have no way of knowing.

I originally used FuelOx that I bought at a boat show. There are some commerical endorsements on their website as well as some reference to them supplying the US military to treat their fuel. It's much more concentrated than most additives. Like most, I can't say I noticed a difference. I'm now of the opinion that it's more hype than substance but who knows. I saw a youtube video that put diesel fuel in glass containers with a little water and then added an additive that claimed to "emulsify" or "eliminate" water and shook it up, and many did nothing at all. Sorry, can't find that video now.

I'm in need of recommendations for a fuel additive to eliminate blue smoke at start up.

Bruce

The additive recommendation for that problem is new piston rings..>>>Dan

LOL,

utclmjmper said:

The additive recommendation for that problem is new piston rings..>>>Dan

Click to expand...

Ford Lehman's do smoke on startup. If it was a chain smoker I would agree with you.

Bruce

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. (Dr.) H. The ONLY additive I have ever used is Bio-Bor for "bug" control. Our current boat is in FL.

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This is what my mechanic suggested as well.

mvweebles said:

Assume you mean diesel fuel additives. I use Stanadyne. Recommended by several diesel wonks who I respect.

.............

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Ditto plus Biobor.

This is an interesting question.

So a quick google search yielded this as the first page of the search. And the answer was interesting: the bugs that form the sludge can be different, and different products do a good or not so good job depending on the specific bug in your tanks. Which leads to the recommendation at the end to switch up the products used during the course of a season to apply different cures to catch the different bugs. The piece is from 2009 and perhaps new chemistry changes the answer.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/boat-maintenance/diesel-biocides-take-on-contaminated-boat-fuel

Thanks FWT. I like Practical Sailor and it's good info, but the focus of their testing was bug elimination. The additives that are bug killers were recommended where additives like Stanadyne that claim to improve performance and lubricity were not. Still valuable info, just not the total answer that I think we are looking for.

backinblue said:

Thanks FWT. I like Practical Sailor and it's good info, but the focus of their testing was bug elimination. The additives that are bug killers were recommended where additives like Stanadyne that claim to improve performance and lubricity were not. Still valuable info, just not the total answer that I think we are looking for.

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I think if you lose the water you lose the bugs, no? So if Standyne demulsifies water, allowing it to be drained off, isn’t that killing multiple birds with one rock?

PennBruce said:

I'm in need of recommendations for a fuel additive to eliminate blue smoke at start up.

Bruce

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Blue at startup used to be common. Over the years, as the tech changed, principally higher injection pressures, blue smoke has been eliminated. It isn't fuel related, so no additive will affect its production.

So biobor alternating with star diesel and stanadyne or equivalent as the take home?

Appreciate the links from several posters.

Hippocampus said:

So biobor alternating with star diesel and stanadyne or equivalent as the take home?

Appreciate the links from several posters.

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I've been told by people that claim to know that Biobor is a treatment not unlike
a medication to treat an infection. There are side effects so use it only as needed.
According to Biobor's MSDS, it is a corrosive so overtreating should be avoided.

Stanadyne and the other similar additives are fuel conditioners that are intended
for regular ongoing use.

I've been using this biodiesel additive at the recommendation of my mechanic. Half the price of other additives and works just the same. 400 hours without a problem. Smells like french fries.

Hippocampus said:

So biobor alternating with star diesel and stanadyne or equivalent as the take home?

Appreciate the links from several posters.

Click to expand...

Hippo, where do you buy fuel and have you looked at ValvTect? They claim that their diesel is pre-treated and no additonal regular additives are needed although they did recommend an extra dose of BioGuard (similar to BioBor I think) for winter layup. Check their website if you haven't already. They also respond to emails.