eBikes - thoughts?

Caballero II said:

I love the idea of a belt drive, but that eliminates the option of a derailleur (more gears).

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There are decent internal hubs with 8 or 9 or so gears. Maybe more. Dunno if compatible with a belt drive, though... although that would sound good to me.

-Chris

ranger42c said:

There are decent internal hubs with 8 or 9 or so gears. Maybe more. Dunno if compatible with a belt drive, though... although that would sound good to me.

-Chris

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My non-e Tern folder has an 8 speed internal hub Shimano with a Gates belt drive. I’ve seen 11, 14 speeds and a CVT as well. I think the gold standard might be a Rohloff 14 speed.

Caballero II said:

I'm not sure what the regulations are in Oz, but you are describing a fairly low-powered bike. In the U.S. we have access to bikes up to 750 W and beyond. Also, we have access to eBikes that are not only pedal assist, but also have an independent throttle to allow you to start easily from a dead stop. I know they are not allowed in Europe. I love the idea of a belt drive, but that eliminates the option of a derailleur (more gears).

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One reason NOT to go with high-powered bikes that haven't been designed extremely well is that the power can break the other components. A very good cyclist can put out 250w for 20min. The gears, cranks, etc. can handle that. But if you just use the same mechanisms for 750W or 1000W, at best you get much faster wear and at worst they just break - lots of evidence in the online bike forums.
However, while the law here in Oz currently says 250W maximum on-road, I do think that should be relaxed to 350W and possibly 500W if on a well-designed bike - or trike! Shouldn't forget the recumbents of course: I have a Greenspeed trike I'm going to electrify that should be great .

Now the good manufacturers have done the work to make it work - tube size, connections, etc. But not all have, and people are still buying DIY 750 and 1000's to put on bikes that just won't take the power.

Now, there's also the cost in weight of bigger motors - they are heavier and while it doesn't make as much difference if they're in the bottom bracket as mid-drives, it does if they are hub motors in smaller (20"/24") wheels. As always, while the motor is working the extra weight is fine (except when lifting it on/off the boat!), but when it inevitably stops at some point, riding that bike will be much harder (if geared motor) or absolutely horrible (if not).

IGH - the Rohloff has more gears than you can get with a rear derailleur, and add in a Schlumpf forward and it's more than is possible with *any* derailleur (I believe). Look at the Pinion as well, or at the Alfines for fewer gears and much cheaper. All are sealed so no problem in salt water environment, as against the chain and derailleur which won't last (actual length of time dependent on lots of things though). On the other hand, a derailleur is much, much, much cheaper .

I've never needed the throttle - the IGH can be shifted when you're still at lights or waiting, so starting in the right gear is not a problem. And power off the line when you can bump to maximum assist and the right gear has never been a problem!

I have two Electric Bill Communications - Creative Design Studio | Raleigh, NC bikes. They are about 900 bucks each delivered to your door and will travel up to 28mph. They do fold but have never needed to do that. They are heavy with a 10amp battery weigh about 62lbs each. I have 1200 miles on them so far. It would be difficult to move them from boat to dinghy without using the boom.

I have 5400 watt e-scooter for my summer cruiser,keep it stored onboard and totally love it

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is there are 2 very distinct types of ebikes. One that has the motor in the rear wheel hub and one that has the motor in the bottom bracket, ( the front sproket ). There are substantial differences and it's been too long since I was knowledgeable about them for me to list them, but if you are going to buy one, you should know the differences.

Benthic2 said:

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is there are 2 very distinct types of ebikes. One that has the motor in the rear wheel hub and one that has the motor in the bottom bracket, ( the front sproket ). There are substantial differences and it's been too long since I was knowledgeable about them for me to list them, but if you are going to buy one, you should know the differences.

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Yes, mid drive (at the crank) vs hub drive. Mid drive definitely elevates the price point we'll above $2k, perhaps $3k. Biggest benefit is because it turns the pedals, you benefit from the gearing. It places a lot of stress on the chain and running gear. I believe these are pedal assist as you must be pedaling to activate. Hub drive is a motor that can often be used as a throttle only.

There are many components that separate the low price bikes from mid price from expensive.

Motor is one. Even amongst hub drive, there is a wide selection of quality. Geared drive is best as it gives mechanical advantage. The one I purchased as up to 9 output settings.

Brakes. Hydraulic disc (best) vs mechanical disc (better) vs rim-grip, the traditional style. Hydraulic was important to me as the bike will do up to 28 mph.

Suspension. I really wanted decent front fork suspension. Some low priced bike have it but it sucks.

Battery capacity.

After that, there is a bunch of stuff that is nice to have. Trigger shift vs twist handle.

Unlike Europe, many US communities are placing restrictions on eBikes. Mostly, fall out from the escooter rental fleets many communities are dealing with. EBikes must now be badges with size of motor (750 is often the max in US, but 250 is common in Europe) and what class they are (Class 2 are governed at 20mph, Class 3 at 28 mph).

Very dynamic landscape right now.

Peter

[FONT=&quot]We plan on getting two folding Rad e-bikes in the Fall - a RadMini 4 for me and a RadMini Step-Thru 2 for my wife. Love the fact that I can fold than and stand them up in the bed of my truck, under the cap, and still have room in the truck bed for other stuff.[/FONT]

Jim

Scooter

We have recently purchased a couple of Ninebot 30lp scooters. Range about 40km and weight is a about 38 lbs. Very compact compared to a bicycle. very satisfied.

Wizard

OldDan1943 said:

There used to be a 2cycle gas motor that would drive the bike by metal wheel rubbing on the tire. I had one for about 6 months and sold the motor at a profit and gave the bike away. I do not recall the brand.

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Wizard shipped a lot of these.

Be aware that carbon fiber is a weak conductor of electricity. For that reason, every screw on a carbon mast has to be electrically isolated from the carbon. Otherwise, in the marine environment, you have a simple carbon battery to eat away each fitting. So a carbon bike on a boat might not be the best long term idea.

I built a nice ebike out a dahon last year for my wife, and after 6 weeks on the water last summer I'm building myself one this spring - already got the bike off Craigslist. I see you had a dahon in the past, but I like the way the newer ones fold up, much like a brompton. I lock it up covered on the top deck and it is always out of the way, easy to dingy in, and makes the islands easier to explore. When you build your own you can add as much battery capacity as you like, and pick the motor you want. Here is a great website with a deep dive and FYI on everything ebike related. Even though it is located in Canada it is a great resource to answer every question you may have. www.ebikes.ca

rpackard said:

Be aware that carbon fiber is a weak conductor of electricity. For that reason, every screw on a carbon mast has to be electrically isolated from the carbon. Otherwise, in the marine environment, you have a simple carbon battery to eat away each fitting. So a carbon bike on a boat might not be the best long term idea.

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Same with carbon fibre boats!

We bought folding Volt bikes (voltbike.com) urban step-thru. They store nicely in our cockpit, and we used them all over the Gulf Islands (we are in the Pacific Northwest) this past summer. Take the battery out (just slides out) and they are 45lbs. Had so much fun and saw much more scenery than we would have otherwise.
Key concern regarding e-bikes is the size of the wheel. We talked to one owner who had 26” regular bike wheels, and his motor would not take him up steep hills. When he changed to a Rad bike with 20” wheels with the same motor, it had enough torque to take him up steep inclines. Something to be aware of when choosing a bike. Cheers

I tested a number of E-bikes when a medical issue lifted my driving privileges for 6 months and I needed something that would enable me to cover 20+ kms trips about town as well the odd 35 kms trip to the boat with some tools and provisions. After testing a half dozen I settled on a Gazelle Ultimate 10, a superbly built Dutch bike from a family operation of 125 years. The dutch really go through the details of daily bike use as family transport and have an eye for detail. A duel purpose machine, the Gazelle handles trails and city; strong Bosch motor and integrated control with top quality Shimano brake and gear parts. Details like all stainless fasteners and double-walled rims with puncture resistant tires complete the package, completely. https://www.citecycles.com/gazelle-ultimate-t10-hmb.html?id=57019887&quantity=1

We tried e-bikes and found them to be too much trouble. Plus we never used them because most things were within walking distance on the islands.

We keep two Rad Mini's on our 40 ft Transpac. They are a little bulky and heavy, but I've perfected the process of getting them in my dingy (one at a time) and getting them ashore. They are great to have! We explored most of Martha's Vineyard on them last summer. You will figure out a system for getting them on and off the boat. At a dock is no problem, by dingy its a little more of a dance. Keep them covered and out of salt spray. Keep the batteries inside. Charging from the Genset or shorepower works fine.

We've had 2 Swagtron EB-5s for a couple of years & they've been a blast. They're priced right, fold up small & only weigh 37 lbs.
https://www.amazon.com/SWAGCYCLE-El...lja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

We purchased 2 SDreamUr 500X folding bikes, rear rack, fenders, hydraulic disc brakes, 20" wheels, 47 lbs with battery, Magnesium alloy frame, 500W motor, approximately $1,100 each. We are very happy with them. https://sdream.bike

We have a couple of Magnum Premium folding bikes. Great suspension. Great range. Ride like a bigger bike. Adding a hoist to get them up to the bridge deck from the dock or dinghy.

EVO bike

I looked at a small folding bike for my 4200 Navigator. Liked the fat tire folding but they came in at weight up to 88 lbs. Lifting those onto the bow would be a pain. Decided on a couple EVO folding at 33 lbs. They fold up nicely and fit in bags. Then out of salt spray and easy to move around deck or into engine room. Had them for several months last summer and they are great.

I've been on the fence about whether or not I want to get an e-bike. I enjoy pedaling the bike, but I don't go nearly as fast was Wayne does. The problem becomes an issue when we go on a bike ride together. If I want to keep up with him, it's not that much fun for me anymore. Maybe an e-bike could give me that extra assist so he doesn't have to lollygag and I don't have wear myself out trying to keep up.

So, I've been looking for an e-bike here that will still be an enjoyable pedal bike. I also want it to be light enough that I can lug it around, lift it up and down curbs, and hand it up to Wayne from the tender. Because we are here in Turkey, I'm pretty much limited to what's available locally - if I don't want to pay at minimum 28% import duty.

I've been considering the Alba Fold 2 here. The components seem to be high quality: Bafang motor and 8-speed Shimano Altus series derailleur. It's a 250W motor, 36V battery, but it only weighs about 43 pounds and the price (kitted out the way I would want it) is around $1100.00.

For some reason you have to scroll down to the footer of their website to click on the UK flag to turn the website into English. https://alba-ebikes.com/products/alba-fold-comfort

One of my best friends is an avid cyclist and rides a good 100 miles per week with a group of seniors (he's 66). His wife is fairly fit and athletic and 15 years younger, but is no more than 5'1" and might be 115 lbs on a good day. They both try to minimize their footptint and like to ride for errands. They bought a Tern eBike for her and he rides a conventional road bike. Works well for them.

Peter

Benthic2 said:

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is there are 2 very distinct types of ebikes. One that has the motor in the rear wheel hub and one that has the motor in the bottom bracket, ( the front sproket ). There are substantial differences and it's been too long since I was knowledgeable about them for me to list them, but if you are going to buy one, you should know the differences.

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Conversion kits also include a front wheel hub motor.

Check out Jupiter x5. Folding, light, decent quality, and reasonably priced. We purchased a refurbished unit and saved a few bucks. It has been holding up fairly well, some light surface rust for the past year that we owned it. I don't know of about their support as I have not had to call them.

Having owned Dahon's with the 20" wheels, which I hated, we have since always had 26" or 700 wheels. We load the bikes into the tender with the front wheels removed. A conversion kit looks good weight wise because the battery and the front wheel can be removed. Is there a disadvantage to the front wheel drive hub motor?
J

re: front motor. There's lots of discussion about it, but hub motors in general appear to be slightly less efficient than mid-drive. By putting the motor in the front, you do leave the rear for IGH which is nice (and can't be swapped around unless you have a rear-stearing bike!).
Probably the most downsides are it changes the weight distribution quite a lot, and the power can only work when the tyre is on the road. Neither of these is terribly bad unless you are doing extremes - mountain biking, wheelies, etc. For the most part, on good dirt or tarmac it would be fine. On some dirt the loss of traction using the front wheel may be a problem or at least annoying, but that can also be ameliorated by fatter tyres at lower pressure.

My thoughts are that most of us are probably a bit on the fat side anyway and could use some exercise.

My thoughts behind cruising are to do just that, get some exercise.

No e-bike for this old guy. I'm gonna exercise if it kills me.

We keep two Rads in the watering trough.

ksanders said:

My thoughts are that most of us are probably a bit on the fat side anyway and could use some exercise.

My thoughts behind cruising are to do just that, get some exercise.

No e-bike for this old guy. I'm gonna exercise if it kills me.

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You would be surprised at how much of a workout you can get on an ebike. Bikes with different levels of pedal assist let you choose how hard you want to work.