Wood Boat - Insurance and Pending dilemna

Just getting a Fiberglass boat doesn't mean you are in the clear with getting it insured . Most insurance companies are now prejudiced to "old fiberglass boats" regardless of the survey . If you are looking at a boat IMO twenty plus years or older, you are going to have a hard time getting it insured nowadays .
This also goes with some boat yards.

Get yourself some quotes ( if you can ) before you buy the boat!

Cleanslate said:

Just getting a Fiberglass boat doesn't mean you are in the clear with getting it insured . Most insurance companies are now prejudiced to "old fiberglass boats" regardless of the survey . If you are looking at a boat IMO twenty plus years or older, you are going to have a hard time getting it insured nowadays .
This also goes with some boat yards.

Get yourself some quotes ( if you can ) before you buy the boat!

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I've currently been involved in this learning curve as we're looking at a wood 36 GB and currently own a wood 32 GB. Here's what I know to save you some time: GEICO won't touch any wood boat at all (unless you have a current policy, then they grandfather you in...that's where I am w/ my 32) or any boat (glass or wood) over 40 yrs old. Hagerty will insure just about anything with a good survey for a price... they quoted me $2600/yr for the wood 36 GB. Now the odd part... State Farm quoted me less than $800 for the 36 GB as long as it had a good survey which any insurance company is going to want to see for any boat older than probably 15 yrs... maybe all boats period but I'm not sure on that. I say "odd" because I've always thought insurance companies would have very similar underwriting guidelines for boats just like they do for cars and houses but apparently not. Maybe they base it on thier own internal metrics of claims and the types of boats making those claims... I don't know the answer to that. FYI - Progressive had a similar rule as GEICO re; anything older than 40 years (or 1982).

Yes, my wood boat is grandfathered in.
Geico is now the policy maker, I used to have Boat US insurance.
It is from 1970, in good condition. I maintain the boat since 1998.

Maybe a problem then to a future buyer!
The insurance companies dont like older boats do they.
I do not insure for anything except liability as it is not worth very much, maybe that helps get insurance?

I asked and the companies I talked to weren’t interested in liability only. I think like you… I’d be willing to take the $50-75k risk of “replacing” my boat in the rare instance of a total loss but you have to have liability. Now if I had a $3-400k boat I’d feel much differently.

COD said:

I've currently been involved in this learning curve as we're looking at a wood 36 GB and currently own a wood 32 GB. Here's what I know to save you some time: GEICO won't touch any wood boat at all (unless you have a current policy, then they grandfather you in...that's where I am w/ my 32) or any boat (glass or wood) over 40 yrs old. Hagerty will insure just about anything with a good survey for a price... they quoted me $2600/yr for the wood 36 GB. Now the odd part... State Farm quoted me less than $800 for the 36 GB as long as it had a good survey which any insurance company is going to want to see for any boat older than probably 15 yrs... maybe all boats period but I'm not sure on that. I say "odd" because I've always thought insurance companies would have very similar underwriting guidelines for boats just like they do for cars and houses but apparently not. Maybe they base it on their own internal metrics of claims and the types of boats making those claims... I don't know the answer to that. FYI - Progressive had a similar rule as GEICO re; anything older than 40 years (or 1982).

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I don't understand Hagerty quoting you $2600 when another on TF said they were $800. You may want to ask them why.
Then anyone with Geico who is grandfathered is taking a gamble staying with Geico as the boat ages. IMO insuring with someone who is actively willing to insure new customers may be more long term since you have invested in them.
As the boat ages both companies may be less inclined. Geico may drop you at any time, the other may not one day take on new clients too. Then you have a boat that floats and no insurance.

Where I used to be in New Jersey...no marina around would travel lift a recreational wood boat as far back as 10 years ago.

Go to show one how the marine industry feels about recreational maintained wooden boats in some pasts of the country.

Well over a decade ago a marina here hauled a mid 1960's wooden 44' Pacemaker on a rail track full support cribbed lift. The boat bottom tweaked into a hogged canter [was already rotten as heck - marina owner felt the owner knew this and was looking for a way to somehow get paid for his old boat. Law suits flew back and forth for a few years. End result was chainsaws dismantled it for junk. Never did know how the law suits turned out. Do know that the rotten junk boat tied up a big space in the marina's rather small yard. Also, within a couple years after that the yard closed for a few years. Been reopened since!

God bless old wood boats!! Cause somebody's gotta! I was brought up on wood boats and loved em. But, would not own one now on a bet - unless I had plenty $$$$$ to pay others for their care.

Maybe if I lived aboard 24/7 wood would be OK. Could give things to occupy time.

I wasn't "grandfathered" just. They just refuse to renew.

Last year haul out the bottom paint was stripped off to expose the wood hull. Checked over, good as new. I had already checked inside. So my hull is good to go for many more years if not decades. I think this boat lived in the PNW all its life. I do not think they last as long in warmer waters.
Perhaps that is also why location will determine if insurance is available on an identical boat.

Fun fact...we have a lot of wooden boats that were built locally to ply the waters of the Chesapeake. Most were built with planking an inch thick or more with 3" or 4" frames and gargantuan 1 piece keels of 12" or more running the length of the boat. The things were tough as heck to be able to continue to work no matter what the weather but only the ones that have been exceptionally well maintained are still around.
Anyway, some of the ones that are still in service have switched from commercial crabbing,fishing,clamming etc to running recreational fishing charters. Those that carry more than 6 passengers have to endure a rigorous Coast Guard inspection, one of the inspection items is to check the integrity of the fasteners holding the planks on. Do you know how they check them? By knocking a perfectly good plank completely off of the boat! Most of the time, they beat the plank off, look at it and proclaim the sample fasteners in serviceable condition , then walk away with the owner holding a piece board with nails sticking out it and a big hole in the bottom of a perfectly good boat... I think I would cry but most watermen are a tough breed so it probably doesn't bother them too much.

I ,personally, used to own a 44' Chesapeake deadrise built for clamming but she would've been long since tied to a pine tree at the head of some creek rotting away if the hull hadn't been c-flexed years ago. Even with the decks and cabin being fiberglass sheathed, I had to replace the cabin roof & bulkhead once fresh water found it's way in and started the rot process. I certainly didn't treat it like a piece of furniture but I still spent way more time maintaining it than I ever have with any of the fiberglass boats I've owned.

Wifey B: I like dinosaurs, but I don't keep one as a pet.

boomerang said:

Fun fact...we have a lot of wooden boats that were built locally to ply the waters of the Chesapeake. Most were built with planking an inch thick or more with 3" or 4" frames and gargantuan 1 piece keels of 12" or more running the length of the boat. The things were tough as heck to be able to continue to work no matter what the weather but only the ones that have been exceptionally well maintained are still around.
Anyway, some of the ones that are still in service have switched from commercial crabbing,fishing,clamming etc to running recreational fishing charters. Those that carry more than 6 passengers have to endure a rigorous Coast Guard inspection, one of the inspection items is to check the integrity of the fasteners holding the planks on. Do you know how they check them? By knocking a perfectly good plank completely off of the boat! Most of the time, they beat the plank off, look at it and proclaim the sample fasteners in serviceable condition , then walk away with the owner holding a piece board with nails sticking out it and a big hole in the bottom of a perfectly good boat... I think I would cry but most watermen are a tough breed so it probably doesn't bother them too much.

I ,personally, used to own a 44' Chesapeake deadrise built for clamming but she would've been long since tied to a pine tree at the head of some creek rotting away if the hull hadn't been c-flexed years ago. Even with the decks and cabin being fiberglass sheathed, I had to replace the cabin roof & bulkhead once fresh water found it's way in and started the rot process. I certainly didn't treat it like a piece of furniture but I still spent way more time maintaining it than I ever have with any of the fiberglass boats I've owned.

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NAILS??? Eeek... I feel that was a fastener used ages ago! Are there really still Chesapeak area wood boat hulls with nails holding them together? If there are any, I believe they'd likely be really Old Baby's!

If the fasteners are nails, how else would you be able to check their condition? If it were screws they could pull some to check the condition but how do you pull nails without digging them out and ruining the wood around the nail.

I put quite a few pounds of monel ring nails in the first deadrise I owned, a 30'. I guess screws would've been easier but remember, these things aren't light-duty boats. IIRC, they were 2 1/2" nails to get through the plank and into the framing. Screws just aren't up to the task.

This isn't a dinosaur! It's a piece of tasteful, classic history. Google Chesapeake Bay Deadrise & my boat comes up in several images. I can't count the compliments I received while owning this boat. Sailboat owners, motor yacht owners, even go-fast gold chainers would give me the thumbs-up as I traveled the area. It's hard to get that kind of approval.
Still, been there & done it. I'd be surprised if I ever bought another wood boat. Although I was able to insure it!

boomerang said:

I put quite a few pounds of monel ring nails in the first deadrise I owned, a 30'. I guess screws would've been easier but remember, these things aren't light-duty boats. IIRC, they were 2 1/2" nails to get through the plank and into the framing. Screws just aren't up to the task.

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I didn’t say to use screws, I said screws might be easier to check the condition. You seemed upset that they took a plank out to check the condition of the nails, how else can they see what the condition is?

boomerang said:

This isn't a dinosaur! It's a piece of tasteful, classic history. Google Chesapeake Bay Deadrise & my boat comes up in several images. I can't count the compliments I received while owning this boat. Sailboat owners, motor yacht owners, even go-fast gold chainers would give me the thumbs-up as I traveled the area. It's hard to get that kind of approval.
Still, been there & done it. I'd be surprised if I ever bought another wood boat. Although I was able to insure it!

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Shawn - WOW!! Your ol' dead rise beauty gets a BIG Thumbs UP from me too!

Reminds me of my white 1967 Buick Wildcat "Ghost"! I get thumbs up all the time!! - When I punch up the photo - it straightens.

I have read many a time.... nails are preferred over screws as fasteners in wood boats.

The USCG requires pulling planks on commercial boats for a good reason...most wooden boats are no longer with us due to failed fasteners.

I was in the middle of an investigation where the USCG almost found wooden boats for commercial use where passengers or recreational fishermen were carried almost were outlawed back in the mid 90s.

I saw entire fleets of wooden fishing boats sink and kill the crews in my 20+ years of USCG helo flying.

While true modern wooden boat design is way safer....the old plank style is an accident waiting to happen unless the owner gets it and is testing/pulling fasteners every year or so or ensuring a complete refastening has been done recently.

Comodave said:

I didn’t say to use screws, I said screws might be easier to check the condition. You seemed upset that they took a plank out to check the condition of the nails, how else can they see what the condition is?

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No, they never took a plank out of my boats because they weren't inspected. I was just passing on a little amusing trivia about how the CG checks the fasteners. I don't have a problem with it at all. What I said was I would cry if they had to knock a plank out of my boat but never said it was not merited and understand fully why they do it.

Yes, it certainly would be disappointing to have that done to your baby.

Oh... Screw It! LOL

psneeld said:

I have read many a time.... nails are preferred over screws as fasteners in wood boats.

The USCG requires pulling planks on commercial boats for a good reason...most wooden boats are no longer with us due to failed fasteners.

I was in the middle of an investigation where the USCG almost found wooden boats for commercial use where passengers or recreational fishermen were carried almost were outlawed back in the mid 90s.

I saw entire fleets of wooden fishing boats sink and kill the crews in my 20+ years of USCG helo flying.

While true modern wooden boat design is way safer....the old plank style is an accident waiting to happen unless the owner gets it and is testing/pulling fasteners every year or so or ensuring a complete refastening has been done recently.

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Years ago we were fishing just a few miles below the El Toro, a wooden party boat that went down in the mouth of the Potomac when a conditions went from flat calm to gale force in a few minutes (the weather forecast warned of the event). I believe planking came loose from the bottom in that instance and several lives were lost.

Comodave said:

Yes, it certainly would be disappointing to have that done to your baby.

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If you don't do it...you are taking a huge risk.

There is a reason why the USCG does it.

psneeld said:

If you don't do it...you are taking a huge risk.

There is a reason why the USCG does it.

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Agree, but it would still be disappointing.

Traditional wood boats were often fastened with square cut galvanized nails. A piece of steel rod can be tacked to the nail head and the nail withdrawn. Then the next size up driven in the hole. I've seen skilled shipwrights do it for surveys and inspections.

Any fastener in a planked wood boat fails at the plank to frame joint. Nails or screws, steel, stainless steel, bronze. It doesn't matter

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Working in LI, NY boat yards in 1960's... we refastened wood bottoms with Monel screws... whenever boat owner could afford it. Monel was expensive compared to other metal fasteners.

Art said:

Working in LI, NY boat yards in 1960's... we refastened wood bottoms with Monel screws... whenever boat owner could afford it. Monel was expensive compared to other metal fasteners.

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And not correct for all wooden boat construction.

Lots of yards didn't do it correct and boats sank because of it.

psneeld said:

And not correct for all wooden boat construction.

Lots of yards didn't do it correct and boats sank because of it.

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Why do you feel Monel fasteners not correct for some boat's wood hull planks... as original fasteners or refastens?

In the 60's I was told by old-time boatwrights that Monel was the best metal screws to use below water wood hull portions. Especially due to its restriction to corrosion/electrolysis.

What makes it incorrect for some [but not all] wooden boat construction?

I'm interested to learn.

Art said:

Why do you feel Monel fasteners not correct for some boat's wood hull planks... as original fasteners or refastens? ...I'm interested to learn.

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Me too. I though Monel was inert and got along nicely with other materials, but that might not be so. Pricy stuff, no point shelling out for it if there are contra indications.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

So if you put all that money in the bank instead of insurance would you have a big nugget.

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So true, assuming you live out your boating career claim free.

As a retiree what I have is all I am going to have in this lifetime.

One spill cleanup would make the difference between my nice comfortable retirement, living on my boat, and living out my years in a cheap apartment scraping by.

Nope, not this cruiser. I smile every year when i pay my insurance bill.