Is double anchor roller the answer

I am in need of assistance with hauling in my anchor. I have a Manson Supreme anchor (about 45 pounds) that sits in a single roller shoe. Once the chain is in the windlass is being put under tremendous strain when trying to flip the anchor in over the bow. If the anchor doesn’t come up straight or has added weight due to weeds and mud, I have to go out and assist the windlass. To me it seems that it is the sharp angle involved to flip the anchor up onto the deck is contributing to this problem. A possible solution would be to replace the single roller with a double roller that is allowed to pivot on the single bolt in the shoe to reduce this sharp angle. Please see attached photo.
I’m interested to know if others have had this experience and what success installing a double roller if that is the answer. There seems to be many suppliers of a double roller system. Ideas and comments please.

Many thanks, Barrie

Haven't tried to change rollers...

I've had problems with anchors coming up backwards. I've generally used a swivel to address that -- and I guess there are only a few safe swivels on the market. (Some of the double-jointed Kongs, Mantus, and Ultra get good reviews. I've only used double-jointed Kongs, with OK success).

Anchor Right also makes a "flip link" that's said to address the issue... at least with their anchors. There's at least one other similar product out there, can't remember the name off hand.

-Chris

I looked at the Anchor Right, I too have anchor flip (15K Rocna) and just made the change to a 25K Rocna, so am waiting to see how much worse it is with the heavier anchor. I really like the swiveling link but the price puts me off until I see if there is really a problem with the larger anchor.

I am inclined to manually flip the anchor chain before the shank enters the roller rather than to spend that much on a new bow roller...

My Vulcan will self right fine if it's 90* off, but not if it's a perfect 180. If it comes up backwards, I just stop before it hits the roller, give it a poke with a boat hook and then pull it up. Once I've got it moving and not perfectly backwards, it sorts itself out as soon as it hits the roller.

hey guys - I think we have drifting off the main question - the flip bit was the side issue. The trouble is getting the anchor over the single roller because of the extreme force on the chain/winch at that critical moment when the anchor has no leverage.

I raised this issue last year and there appeared to be two options, after much discussion - two rollers as you show or trying a bigger diameter bow roller might help. Neither of which options I have tried as unfortunately to replace the bow roller means major surgery to the bowsprit,

Now regarding an anchor that comes up facing the wrong way - the boat hook has been my solution - a pain in the you know what but it doesn`t happen enough to get too excited about.

The double roller with a hinge point in between the rollers IS the flipper, I was making no reference to a swiveling link in the chain, but rather to the breakover on the single roller vs a hinged roller.

Are you sure that you want to have a retaining strap over the anchor. They sound good in theory but I found mine to just interfere and cause problems, so I removed it. if you cinch the anchor up nice and tight then it won't jump off the roll. Or when expecting heavy seas you can tie it down.

Barrie said:

I am in need of assistance with hauling in my anchor. I have a Manson Supreme anchor (about 45 pounds) that sits in a single roller shoe. Once the chain is in the windlass is being put under tremendous strain when trying to flip the anchor in over the bow. If the anchor doesn’t come up straight or has added weight due to weeds and mud, I have to go out and assist the windlass. To me it seems that it is the sharp angle involved to flip the anchor up onto the deck is contributing to this problem. A possible solution would be to replace the single roller with a double roller that is allowed to pivot on the single bolt in the shoe to reduce this sharp angle. Please see attached photo.
I’m interested to know if others have had this experience and what success installing a double roller if that is the answer. There seems to be many suppliers of a double roller system. Ideas and comments please.

Many thanks, Barrie

Click to expand...

Yes, Barrie, absolutely a hinged double roller system will help that a lot. Anchor Right, the makers of the Sarca range, do sell one designed like that for their anchors, but it would work with any anchor like yours.

I already had a hinged arrangement before I got my Super Sarca, because I was already having similar issues with the CQR that came with the boat. The winch often groaned a bit with effort of pulling over that last bit, and sometimes the shank even jumped off the single bronze roller. In analysing the issue it became clear to me that if a change was in order, a hinged double roller system was the way to go, with a bail over the lot to stop the anchor occasionally jumping out.

The one I had obtained and fitted worked perfectly with the Anchor Right S-Sarca. They are out there. The pic will illustrate my set-up. The chain rode is slightly released in the pic to illustrate the hinged effect, and how well it would solve the issue you describe. I managed to even fit the hinged assembly inside the original bronze roller mount, just removing the actual roller. Funnily enough, having sold the boat, one of the things I still miss most is the anchoring system.

Weak windlass? Too-heavy anchor?

If you can't find an off the shelf system that suits, it isn't too difficult to engineer your own as we did, explained in the link below. Lots of CNC water jet machines around that simply need a CAD file to cut the parts.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/d/r/drf6/Liberty_Project_1/FD_anchor_roller.htm

Sarca makes a "flip link". Wonder if it would help with both/either problem? A link to their page follows:
Anchor Right Australia introduces, the innovative Flip Link - Anchor Right Australia

That's pretty cool, triples the number of shackles though... and no safety wire on those pins either

The flip link is a good solution, but it requires enough length between the shank and windlass (I don't have enough on my setup).

As far as getting the anchor up and over the roller, some roller setups and some anchors just don't pair well. Some anchors need a double roller, some need an articulated roller, and sometimes it's just about getting the roller to windlass geometry correct for it to come up nicely.


Take a look (ideally as a side view) at how everything is aligned at the point where the anchor hangs up and won't pull up any further. If possible, grab a picture for us, as that may make it easier to see what kind of changes would or wouldn't help.

Your drawing shows a CQR in the example.
The "Flip link" shows the distance from the windlass to the anchor allowing the length of the flip and some chain in between. Not may bows have that distance available, so that is not likely an option for you.
The CQR has most of the weight on one side, so as soon as the first 1/2 of the stock is above the roller, gravity forces the weight of the heavy head to turn the whole anchor and solve your problem. That is what happens on mine.
Maybe you should look for an anchor with that uneven weight distribution. I don't know what other anchors will have that, maybe Bruce, certainly CQR, so maybe others.
Good luck.

Thanks everyone for your comments, pictures, ideas and drawings. Looks like i am not alone with this problem. I have a welding shop in town that works with stainless steel. As soon as the snow melts i will get proper measurements and see what i can get made local.
Cheers
Barrie

I would attempt to have two different Style anchors.

A Bruce and a Danforth are the same style , just different shape.

A CQR is a different style , as is Herrishoff.

I experienced the same issue when I installed my Mantus M1 65lb on my 38’ trawler. Installed a Maxwell hinged bow roller (size 1) from Amazon ($187). Easy install and completely solved the problem!
-Steve

Wruckus said:

I experienced the same issue when I installed my Mantus M1 65lb on my 38’ trawler. Installed a Maxwell hinged bow roller (size 1) from Amazon ($187). Easy install and completely solved the problem!
-Steve

Click to expand...

Cool!

This one?

I have a Super Sarca 54lbs - I need to give it a tug with the boat hook sometimes. Might look into the Maxwell roller if it fits easily.

Hi Steve: thanks for reaching out. Any pictures of the final install?
Were you able to use the same bolt hole from the old removed roller?
Barrie

We have a double roller as in the OP. Our Vulcan comes up and over easily. The only time we have trouble is when the anchor comes up 180 out. Just drop it a foot then try again. It will self-right 9 out of 10 times.

Great thread. I notice the same thing with my Rocna and my roller. Mark asked above if it's a matter of an anchor being too heavy or a weak windlass. It's neither. It is a geometry/compatibility issue between the anchor, roller, other hardware. When not in a hurry, I usually pull mine up by hand, just to know I can. When you do that, you will really feel this "stopping point" of which the OP speaks if the geometry is wrong. I love the pivoting double roller as a solution. That seems ideal to smooth out the transition. I was not even aware of those, so this thread was helpful.

I know exactly what the OP is about

My wife handles our Claw by hand, or with a hand crank winch on the foredeck, I'd be happy to give her some relief, but she'd have to learn "how to drive" first. The double rocking roller proposal looks as if it might work. I'll try it using plain steel mending straps and plain steel bolts for a temp prototype and if satisfactory, convert it to all stainless hardware.
I've invented a hand-operated lever to be deployed when the shackle on the Claw reaches the roller that hopefully will raise the anchor's shank to horizontal so that wife can pull it in over the roller more easily. The prototype is made of 1"pvc pipe and fittings but I have not been able to test it for two reasons. First, our boat is trailered and when parked on the hard, the trailer winch post is in the way. Secondly, when out on the water I find that I've left the prototype at home.
The lever is too awkward in shape to describe here, and there is deep snow between me and the lever so do not want to photograph it right now.
I like a loop over the anchor and rode by the roller but do not want the rode "trapped" in the loop, as described in one of the posts above. My solution was to cut the strap in halves diagonally, with a 5'8" space between the cut ends so that it retains the anchor or rode when they are oriented fore-n aft in line with the keel. However, the rode can be released from the loop by giving it a bit of slack so that it can pass through the diagonal space between the straps.

Barrie said:

Hi Steve: thanks for reaching out. Any pictures of the final install?
Were you able to use the same bolt hole from the old removed roller?
Barrie

Click to expand...

Yes, the original roller axle was then removed and the "hinged" assembly fit perfectly. I'm sure luck played a role! Turned out to be about a 30 minute task start to finish! Unbelievable for a older traditional trawler design. A neighbor with a 50' MT pioneered the way. I'll try for a pic

Hinged roller oics

Pics showing Rollers on MT 38' and MT 50' (Rocna)