Windlass dies, dead lift anchor and chain?

As many have seen in the other thread, I've begun shopping for a replacement anchor because some dufus (PO) seems to have replaced our original inadequate anchor with an even less useful, less adequate anchor...

And then it happens, this time our likely fix will be much heavier than I can usually lift manually.

Our Lofrans vertical windlass has a manual capability, but there's not much leverage available... and while I haven't tried it, I doubt the little twirly winch handle will raise an 80-100 lb anchor with maybe 20' or remaining chain rode to complicate matters...

And, our anchor "crew" is mostly me. I do the launching and recovering, etc, from the bow, and wifey stays at the helm to control the boat.

So... if the windlass craps out for whatever reason... what are likely ways to haul in something heavier than I can easily haul?

Best I've theoretically come up with so far is to add a temporary shackle to the chain rode -- ahead of the windlass and large enough so I can thread a decent line through it -- and then use that line to haul in a few feet of weight. Tie off the line to a cleat somewhere. Go to the windlass and crank in the slack. Repeat until exhausted. Something like that...

Ideas?

-Chris

I'm in the same boat. In any decent depth of water, there's no way I could pull my anchor up by hand, especially not if the water isn't dead calm (made worse by not having a chain stopper in my setup, so no ratcheting action while pulling by hand). A big enough ratchet in the manual retrieve hole would do the trick, but it would be very, very slow (not a lot of leverage, so long ratchet is needed and my windlass is horizontal, so you can't just grind circles).

I'd see if you can get a longer handle for more leverage on the manual retrieve (up to the limit of how much clearance you have around the windlass). Depending on how the manual retrieve works on your windlass (whether or not the manual retrieve hole is centered vs moving around as you grind) you may be able to use a beefy drill and an adapter to slowly wind it in.

Worst case, I figure depending on where I am, I might just dump the whole rode and buoy it. Then go get parts to fix the windlass and come back for it.

If you want to keep the existing windlass then you will have to get a longer handle. Maybe sailing supplier’s have longer handles for the racing crowd. Or a machine shop can build you one.

A few thoughts:

- Religiously maintain your current windlass, by the book.
- Buy a Come Along
- Install a powered warping drum/winch

How about one of the electric winch handles ? Looks like a right angle grinder. Fits in the top of the winch.

I am not sure if this would work, but it may be worth a try.
This is what we used on our Columbia river anchor system in the Hewscraft. Its fast, easy and in an emergency you can toss everything over the side and come back later.

https://www.amazon.com/Ironwood-Pac...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584207581360908&psc=1

There are other shackels that only allow the rope to pass one way. Basicly you reverse past your anchor, and power up, it in turn pulls the anchor up. You need room to use it, about 2x what ever rode you have out.

Most fishermen / charter captains use this approach - would it work for you?

Greetings,
This, perhaps?


https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Pulley-Block-Tackle-Hoist/dp/B001Z0WELC

ranger42c said:

Our Lofrans vertical windlass has a manual capability, but there's not much leverage available... and while I haven't tried it, I doubt the little twirly winch handle will raise an 80-100 lb anchor with maybe 20' or remaining chain rode to complicate matters...

Click to expand...

I'd try the manual capability before deciding it won't be effective. It might not be fast or easy, but I'd be surprised if it didn't work.

LovetoBoat said:

Most fishermen / charter captains use this approach - would it work for you?

Click to expand...

I've used this on all our center consoles up to 29' with 20 feet of 5/16 chain/20lb or so Danforth. We've also used it in 150+ feet of water on a Luhrs 34 with 50ft of 5/16 chain and a CQR (35-40lbs?). Worked great on the bigger boat also. Our ball needed to be a little bigger as it was only just better than neutral buoyancy at the surface with the anchor in the steel loop and the chain hanging beneath. Being sportfishers we did not care if we had an obnoxious orange meatball fixed to the bow rail near the pulpit. On a cruiser of your size it may not be very aesthetic.

Solly said:

How about one of the electric winch handles ? Looks like a right angle grinder. Fits in the top of the winch.

Click to expand...

Or more simply, this: Amazon.com

and a cordless drill.

I have a heavy lift on the stern end of my dinghy davits, so I bought the above adapter and can now avoid the worst of that lift.

High Wire said:

If you want to keep the existing windlass then you will have to get a longer handle. Maybe sailing supplier’s have longer handles for the racing crowd. Or a machine shop can build you one.

Click to expand...

Or take your lever, go to a hardware store and buy a longer level (pipe).

WHY do you find a need for an 80-100 pound anchor on 58ft boat?
Read the reviews on different anchors and buy a better style, one that grabs the bottom. There have been many discussion in here on which anchor is perfect. It ain't gonna be found. I refuse to participate in the old worn out subject of 'anchor wars.'

If your windlass is lacking the power to lift the anchor (not drag the boat to the anchor) replace your windless if necessary.

You could also learn how to set 2 anchors too.

I have a cordless 1/2” impact driver that would probably do the job if you could find a way to couple it to the windlass. Or else call your towing provider.

OldDan1943 said:

WHY do you find a need for an 80-100 pound anchor on 50ft boat?

Click to expand...

Same reason I have a 73 lb one on a 38 footer. I don't want to have to question if the bottom is good enough or if I can fit in there and still put out enough scope. Having tons of extra holding power in good conditions means I can either throw some away by shortening scope to fit in somewhere tighter and still have plenty, or I can anchor in a worse bottom before it becomes inadequate. And when an unexpected nasty thunderstorm comes up, I'm more comfortable saying "we'll just stay and wait it out" without worrying what will happen if a 60 kt gust comes through.



Other than a few extra pounds on the bow and the "what if" of a windlass failure that I can't resolve on the spot (which with proper maintenance should be rare), there's not much downside. In normal use the bigger anchor is no harder to handle and it fits fine, so...

Thanks, all! Some quick comments interspersed below.

Jeff F said:

I'd try the manual capability before deciding it won't be effective. It might not be fast or easy, but I'd be surprised if it didn't work.

Click to expand...

rslifkin said:

I'd see if you can get a longer handle for more leverage on the manual retrieve (up to the limit of how much clearance you have around the windlass). Depending on how the manual retrieve works on your windlass (whether or not the manual retrieve hole is centered vs moving around as you grind) you may be able to use a beefy drill and an adapter to slowly wind it in.

Click to expand...

Center "star" is the clutch, outer "star" is the manual retrieve. Drill or driver, maybe good!

High Wire said:

If you want to keep the existing windlass then you will have to get a longer handle.

Click to expand...

OldDan1943 said:

Or take your lever, go to a hardware store and buy a longer level (pipe).

Click to expand...

Longer pipe over the winch handle. Good idea!

sunchaser said:

A few thoughts:
- Religiously maintain your current windlass, by the book.
- Buy a Come Along
- Install a powered warping drum/winch

Click to expand...

Well, right... but even well-maintained stuff craps out sometimes. I think a warping drum on a temporarily crapped out windlass won't really be all that useful at that particular moment. I have a Come Along; good idea if I can figure out how to rig it up. Maybe pull against a line around another cleat somewhere.

Solly said:

How about one of the electric winch handles ? Looks like a right angle grinder. Fits in the top of the winch.

Click to expand...

koliver said:

Or more simply, this:
and a cordless drill.

Click to expand...

Comodave said:

I have a cordless 1/2” impact driver that would probably do the job if you could find a way to couple it to the windlass. Or else call your towing provider.

Click to expand...

I do have both cordless drill and impact driver. Good ideas; I'll have to check to see if they'll do the lifting. Since the manual lift attachment point is toward the circumference of the winch cap -- i.e., not in the center -- might not work, though.

OldDan1943 said:

WHY do you find a need for an 80-100 pound anchor on 58ft boat?
Read the reviews on different anchors and buy a better style, one that grabs the bottom. There have been many discussion in here on which anchor is perfect. It ain't gonna be found. I refuse to participate in the old worn out subject of 'anchor wars.'

If your windlass is lacking the power to lift the anchor (not drag the boat to the anchor) replace your windless if necessary.

You could also learn how to set 2 anchors too.

Click to expand...

Anchor manufacturers' minimum recommendations. Actual solution might be heavier.

I'm comfortable with eventually making an anchor selection. If it seems to work here, I'll use it 'til it doesn't... and then make another selection. I agree, "perfect" isn't gonna happen, but that's not my focus here anyway. I just want to be comfortable knowing I have a way to do an immediate emergency recovery if the windlass breaks -- for whatever reason. Dead battery (my bad), broken gear, wiring separates, switches don't work, whatever.

Deploying a second anchor would probably double my dilemma.

LovetoBoat said:

Most fishermen / charter captains use this approach - would it work for you?

Click to expand...

Ummm..... dunno, I'll have to ponder over that. The video shows a tiny grapnel, maybe a 2 lb anchor (?), and some relatively lightweight chain. I have a Polyform A4, not sure it'd float a 80-90 lb anchor. We have a Polyform A5, too, but it's so heavy it takes some effort just lift that all by itself. Have to think on it some more...

-Chris

I also have the Lofrans Tigres windless with a 66 pound anchor and 320 feet of chain. My plan if the windless fails ….

1. Manual lift with the provided handle (and a pipe?)
2. Somehow rig my 5/1 block and tackle to slowly lift it
3. Somehow rig my boat deck crane to provide some lifting

These last two would require a pulley rigged somewhere to transfer load, or rig the block and tackle to the Samson Post?

Mostly, good maintenance is my plan! ;-D

rslifkin said:

Same reason I have a 73 lb one on a 38 footer. I don't want to have to question if the bottom is good enough or if I can fit in there and still put out enough scope. Having tons of extra holding power in good conditions means I can either throw some away by shortening scope to fit in somewhere tighter and still have plenty, or I can anchor in a worse bottom before it becomes inadequate. And when an unexpected nasty thunderstorm comes up, I'm more comfortable saying "we'll just stay and wait it out" without worrying what will happen if a 60 kt gust comes through.



Other than a few extra pounds on the bow and the "what if" of a windlass failure that I can't resolve on the spot (which with proper maintenance should be rare), there's not much downside. In normal use the bigger anchor is no harder to handle and it fits fine, so...

Click to expand...

I'm with you. We have an 85 pound Mantus on our 42 foot boat. We sleep good at night at anchor, but we're cruisers and spend a lot of time on the hook.

I don't care what anyone else uses, although if they are upwind of me, it's nice if they don't drag.

And, for us, historically, the key to keeping our windlesses working, has been to use them a lot. Every time I have had a windless failure, it's when the boat sat up and didn't get used for several months. One of my rituals now, once a week, is to cut on the windless and lower and pick the anchor up in our slip.

ranger42c said:

Since the manual lift attachment point is toward the circumference of the winch cap -- i.e., not in the center -- might not work, though.

Click to expand...

Without consulting the manufacturer's documentation I'd be willing to bet there is a reduction gear built in that will allow using moderate effort on the small handle to do the job at hand. These manual backups are not afterthoughts - your concerns are real, and I trust that Lofrans has incorporated a solution.

ranger42c said:

Well, right... but even well-maintained stuff craps out sometimes. I think a warping drum on a temporarily crapped out windlass won't really be all that useful at that particular moment. I have a Come Along; good idea if I can figure out how to rig it up. Maybe pull against a line around another cleat somewhere. -Chris

Click to expand...

A well maintained windlass is pretty good insurance. Kinda like living with a single engine. I was amazed when I took a look at my Maxwell "care page" at how poorly I'd done over the years. We also carry a spare drive motor.

A separate powered warping drum is not connected at all to the windlass. I carry a 1 ton Come Along which is about right for a 90 pound anchor and 300' of chain.

For us, cutting the anchor loose and using the backup Fortress with 90% rope rode is the plan if the Come Along is not easily successful.. Where we tend to cruise, retrieving the abandoned anchor and chain may not be possible.

My Lofrans Tigres has a manual retrieve that works well with a handle about two feet long. Had to use it for a week or so in SEAK until a new solenoid arrived. Did the job easily, just slowly. Anchor was only 44 lb, with 5/16 HT chain in 45-55 depths, but it seemed like it would handle a good bit more weight.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Trawler Forum mobile app

RS and that is why I have two anchors.

Jeff F said:

These manual backups are not afterthoughts

Click to expand...

It turns out that sometimes they are. I contacted Muir about how to raise my anchor manually with a Muir Storm 800. There is a socket on top just like a sailboat winch and a locking winch handle stowed in a locker. The instruction manual talked about using the handle to loosen a clutch allowing the anchor to freefall. Nothing about retrieval. I found out that's because this model of Muir doesn't have a manual retrieval. Ooops, it appears manual backup was an afterthought. The newer model does have it.

I suppose it is possible that during a windlass failure it could be necessary to freefall the anchor, but most windlass failures I've heard about the issue is retrieval. And it would be quite an emergency before I would drop 200 pounds of anchor and chain knowing that I had to pull it back by hand.

sunchaser said:

A few thoughts:

- Religiously maintain your current windlass, by the book.
- Buy a Come Along
- Install a powered warping drum/winch

Click to expand...

Never thought of having a come-along on a boat. great idea. I'll be sure to stow one on the boat for such an emergency.
Thanks!

Muir Horizontals come with a manual retrieve handle which works on a ratchet. Muir says remove the handle, only install it when actually needed, otherwise it can lock up the windlass.(Now where did we put that handle and its attachment screw we removed 3 years ago....????)

The time it failed we found using the handle hopelessly slow and retrieved the all chain rode by hand. We now keep leather faced gardening gloves onboard for hand protection.

rslifkin said:

In any decent depth of water, there's no way I could pull my anchor up by hand, especially not if the water isn't dead calm .

Click to expand...

We once had to hand-lift a 110 pound anchor in 80 feet of water. Lifting just chain wasn't too bad, but when the chain became tight to the anchor so that we were also lifting the anchor, it became quite difficult. However, the water was rough enough that our bow was bobbing up and down pretty good. We found that by timing our lift to coincide with the drop of the bow, we were able to make slow progress on the anchor with not much more effort than lifting chain alone. I don't think we could have done it in calm water.

MYTraveler said:

We once had to hand-lift a 110 pound anchor in 80 feet of water. Lifting just chain wasn't too bad, but when the chain became tight to the anchor so that we were also lifting the anchor, it became quite difficult. However, the water was rough enough that our bow was bobbing up and down pretty good. We found that by timing our lift to coincide with the drop of the bow, we were able to make slow progress on the anchor with not much more effort than lifting chain alone. I don't think we could have done it in calm water.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting point. I wasn't thinking of the effort reduction when the bow drops, but more of the whole thing ripping my shoulders apart when the bow rises.

Plan B

"If the hand offends thee , cut it off" (old advice)

While cruising many marinas have a used section of hardware. Flee markets Craigs list.

Purchase an Ideal , repair it if needed , and take the next 3 decades off.

Spinner said:

I also have the Lofrans Tigres windless with a 66 pound anchor and 320 feet of chain.

Click to expand...

Ours isn't a horizontal Tigres. It's a vertical Project 1500, USA version.

https://citimarinestore.com/en/lofr...8-lofrans_project_1000_voltage_selection-12_v

The center "star" socket controls the clutch. The outer "star" socket is the one that works the manual retrieval. The tool is exactly like a sailboat winch handle.

Thinking about the "longer bar" idea... it would take removing the free-spinning hand-grip at the end of the tool. Possible, I think; have to look.

Jeff F said:

Without consulting the manufacturer's documentation I'd be willing to bet there is a reduction gear built in that will allow using moderate effort on the small handle to do the job at hand. These manual backups are not afterthoughts - your concerns are real, and I trust that Lofrans has incorporated a solution.

Click to expand...

That would be great. I'll hold my breath.

No, wait!...

sunchaser said:

A separate powered warping drum is not connected at all to the windlass. I carry a 1 ton Come Along which is about right for a 90 pound anchor and 300' of chain.

Click to expand...

Ummm... I think I didn't know that, or don't understand it. The drums I've seen (it's an option our windlass could have -- but doesn't -- seem to use the windlass power to do the warping. I've not ever had one, though...

https://www.seatechmarineproducts.c...-vertical-electric-1500w-windlass-lw7942.html

I know a drum would be useful, anyway, perhaps for our secondary anchor rode (rope) whenever I get around to solving that issue. Might be I'll see about adding the capstan then... but I don't understand how that would help in the circumstance I'm pondering on. Or with chain rode.

-Chris

It looks like you have received a lot of good suggestions. I would add that carrying a canvas tarp or perhaps a large doormat and a bucket to contain the chain and protect the deck may be of use. If you are retrieving chain manually and have to place some amount on deck prior to force feeding it into the locker, it can become a pain to manage in short order, especially without scratching up a beautiful deck. If you have something to lay down that will prevent it from sliding around or contain it, it would allow you to work a little slower and methodically and perhaps avoid straining yourself in a rush.

If possible, I would replace the come-along with a block and tackle, a vang or mainsheet from a sailboat would work well especially one with the cam cleat integrated to the fiddle block of one end. They store easily, are less likely to scratch up the boat and won't rust up. They are also useful to recover people from the water, especially on a boat with a bridge or strong high point to secure it to.

Our windless does have a socket in the top of the drum, and a handle that you insert that technically allows you to turn it manually. In practice, I think it would be a hard way to get 250 feet of chain up.