starting over - basic question

I hope this question won't insult you all. I thought I was a die hard sailor, but now am attracted by the proposition of living aboard a trawler. I think. I know nothing about power boats having sailed with an auxiliary engine only. You know what they say - each journey begins with a first step. Here is mine. What is the difference between a motor yacht and a trawler?

Opinion only. Length of the boat, speed, hull design. Oh, price.

Although a trawler type vessel can also be called a motoryacht, I think most folks associate motoryachts with faster vessels and trawlers with slower vessels. Also, the trawler would tend to have a saltier design and the motoryacht more sleek and modern.

Lois, the basic difference is that with a motor yacht compared to sailboat, it is possible to arrive at your destination with dry feet. After having sailed for a long time I made the decision to rethink power boats after rounding Cape Scott at the north end of Vancouver Island in 30 knots of wind under a triple reef and staysail. The sailing was as good as it gets, but pretty physical and I realized that I probably wasn't always going to have as much fun getting my brains bashed out in a few years. Now, instead of worrying about when to reef, I worry about not much of anything since Delfin is capable of going whereever and whenever a sailboat might venture, just a lot more comfortably. With more coastal designs, you will have to be less adventuresome in when you go out, but with that taken into consideration will arrive at your destination wearing your bunny slippers rather than your Musto survival suit (sailboat.

So I suppose the main difference between a motor yacht and a trawler is that the true trawler is a closer analog to a sailboat, while in the size most folks have, a motor yacht is a less capable vessel in blue water or when the wind really starts blowing.

Rambler...thanks for your response. Hull design - what in particular? But more hard chine, beamey, what?

mahal - thanks, too, for your response. Salty can be so subjective...but I get what you are saying. Salty seems to be intuitive somehow. Bayliner not so salty, Grand Banks more salty....?

Delfin...as we share some sailing experience, I am grateful for your perspective. I will takeaway from your response that a trawler is more seaworthy and capable and comfortable in a seaway than a motor yacht....will have to purchase some bunny slippers, though!

All trawlers are motor yachts (or should I say engine yachts).

But only a certain segment of motor yachts are trawlers.

Generally speaking all large powered pleasure boats are considered motor yachts.

Some consider all sailboats to be yachts especially outside the US.

The difference I think you're looking for is that the motor yacht emphasizes luxury and the trawler emphasizes seaworthiness w range, saltiness and the ability to go safely and somewhat comfortably in fairly rough going achieved largely w higher displacement. The latter element (weight/disp (notice I didn't say quality)) is closely related to seaworthiness but some very light boats/trawlers are quite seaworthy in coastal waters. But weight is still the element that separates Most other powerboats from trawlers.

All the above is strictly my own opinion and no more.

"the trawler emphasizes seaworthiness w range, saltiness and the ability to go safely and somewhat comfortably in fairly rough going achieved largely w higher displacement."

That's the magazine version from a $10,000 a page boaty magazine.

No more reality there than in most add dept drivel.

A FEW (damn few) motorized boats can venture out into blue water and go a distance.

Trawler shape , Bayliner shape , the basic BOAT is the same , Max volume for minimum bucks, the deck house on the "trawler" will differ but most of the construction and outfitting is for a smooth water coastal cruiser, no offshore construction or scantlings..

Its simply what most folks will do , so its all they will pay for.

IF mere weight were a positive on a long range cruiser , someone should tell Steve Dashew , just how wrong he is !

Hi Lois - Welcome aboard TF! For S&G, how's Clark these days?... Sorry, just had to do that, caus, Superman was one of my fav shows as a kid... bet you still hear that too often from people of my circa!

Regarding Trawlers:
1. What size, creature comforts and cruising capabilities you seeking to locate?
2. Specific age range or price points?
3. Single or twin screw preference?
4. Diesel or gas preference?
5. Full displacement, Semi displacement/planing, Full plane hull?
6. Single or twin pilot stations, i.e. flybridge/salon or... ??
7. Boat material; FG, Wood, Steel, Aluminum... ??
8. Any makes/models/years you already have your eyes on?

There are a plethora of “Trawler” sizes, types, makes and styles to choose from. Seems from your sailing experience you are already well acquainted with structural-needs/build-out requirements that comprise good boat construction and that you simply seek/need a touchup course that includes Trawler parameters. Well... I’m sure TF is a good place to start – plenty of cwazy boaters with much knowledge that love to gabbbb bout boats! And, it’s good to have another girl joining into this forum’s mariner mix which is heavily weighted to the testosterone side – lol

Best Luck in your search. Happy Boating Daze! - Art

Lois said:

mahal - thanks, too, for your response. Salty can be so subjective...but I get what you are saying. Salty seems to be intuitive somehow. Bayliner not so salty, Grand Banks more salty....?

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Yes Grand Banks are definitely more salty than the sleek Bayliners. In case you are looking at Grand Banks, you need to know that a GB Motoryacht is mainly different from the GB classic because of the full beam aft cabin, more appropriately and commonly called a sundeck by other manufacturers.

The ugly ones are motor yachts.

Lois, welcome to trawler forum. See that you don't have an avatar yet. Maybe this would work.



Caption reads:

"Oh Lord, have mercy upon my soul - I went cruising in a Powerboat and LIKED it!"

Ted

O C Diver said:

Lois, welcome to trawler forum. See that you don't have an avatar yet. Maybe this would work.

View attachment 13424

Caption reads:

"Oh Lord, have mercy upon my soul - I went cruising in a Powerboat and LIKED it!"

Ted

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Perfect, Ted... Perfect!

People in our small town often say they're surprised we bought a yacht. We're confused because we thought we bought a trawler.

Dave

Having been born and raised in a North Sea port and surrounded by true trawler hulls I can tell you that the term "Trawler" has become no more than a marketing term.

Very few of the vessels marketed as Trawlers have anything remotely like a true displaement trawler type hull. Most of the popular brands designated as "trawlers" are much more closely related to the previously mentioned Bayliners than to anything that ever trawled a net.

If you want a true trawler hull form you have to start with "full displacement" and go from there.

Lois said:

Delfin...as we share some sailing experience, I am grateful for your perspective. I will takeaway from your response that a trawler is more seaworthy and capable and comfortable in a seaway than a motor yacht....will have to purchase some bunny slippers, though!

Click to expand...

I think that's correct. Many builders tend to refer to their vessels as "trawlers", which perhaps connotes greater seaworthiness and is probably good for sales. As discussed on this site more than once some suggest a really true trawler has a net on deck and fish guts in the bilge. If there is a definition that most can agree with, it is that a trawler has the capacity to cross oceans on its own bottom. This requires a fair amount of fuel, and sea handling characteristics that are up to the job. In other words, a power vessel that could be a sailboat if you put masts on it by virtue of displacement. Delfin is the same hull design that was used to fish for herring in the North Sea since 1860, so I guess she must be a "true trawler" even though I have every reason to believe that there are no fish guts in the bilge. Vessels like Nordhavns are capable of crossing oceans with stabilization although they are of modern design and I have no issue with them being called trawlers. When I think of motor yachts, I think of boats that are designed for coastal cruising until they get over perhaps 70 feet, at which point they may still be called motor yachts but by virtue of size and tankage are also now capable of crossing oceans. These vessels inevitably are also stabilized. If the virtues of a sailboat in rough weather appeal to you, then look for a displacement hull with big fuel tanks, preferably stabilized with either active or passive fins. Just my opinion....

And they don't need to be bunny slippers. Those ones that look like bear's feet will also suffice.

Delfin said:

If there is a definition that most can agree with, it is that a trawler has the capacity to cross oceans on its own bottom..

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A recreational trawler is a motorboat with comfortable/complete living quarters (bed, kitchen, bathroom, etcetera; houseboats not included) which isn't able to go faster than hull speed (something like 1.3 times the square root of waterline length) in order to have good fuel mileage. Transoceanic capability isn't a requirement. See Chapman's book.

Most people participating on this forum have express cruisers (capable of higher speeds).

Hello O C Diver - very amusing suggestion for an avatar...it is true, though, that most of my sailing buddies consider I am going through a dangerous metamorphosis! I think I have seen this described as the Dark Side. Maybe Darth Vader might be a better avatar?

Hi Art - Clark sends regards!

Regarding Trawlers:
1. What size, creature comforts and cruising capabilities you seeking to locate? was thinking around 40', capable of doing the loop, Caribbean and then through the Canal north to the PNW
2. Specific age range or price points? - like the look of older models (maybe because that's because I am an older model!) price in the $70-90K mark
3. Single or twin screw preference? - open
4. Diesel or gas preference? Diesel
5. Full displacement, Semi displacement/planing, Full plane hull? full displacement
6. Single or twin pilot stations, i.e. flybridge/salon or... ?? as I am solo, I am more concerned about access from the wheel to my ropes for berthing, etc...also tend to think flybridge models look unbalanced somehow..too much structure, too high
7. Boat material; FG, Wood, Steel, Aluminum... ?? FG -
8. Any makes/models/years you already have your eyes on? Hatteras, DeFever, Grand Banks Classic...

Was also going to consider a Tolleycraft, Art. How do you like yours?
Thanks for your response and kind welcome.
Lois

Delfin...oops. You have identified one of my weaknesses...I'm not really a slipper kind of gal! I really do appreciate you sharing your opinions....they are like signposts for me so thanks very much.
Lois

Lois

Seeing you are located in the UK, insure you choose a vessel that is:

• seaworthy for your waters,
• sized to match your budget and slip space,
• instrument equipped to handle channel and crowded waters traffic,
• no leaky teak decks or side windows,
• space to install diesel heat,
• a mechanical setup that can be serviced locally,
• decent following for resale,
• flat foredeck, accessible sidedecks and a decent cockpit for ease of line handling and
• not a Florida or San Francisco Bay nice weather design.

Lois said:

Hi Art - Clark sends regards!

Regarding Trawlers:
1. What size, creature comforts and cruising capabilities you seeking to locate? was thinking around 40', capable of doing the loop, Caribbean and then through the Canal north to the PNW
2. Specific age range or price points? - like the look of older models (maybe because that's because I am an older model!) price in the $70-90K mark
3. Single or twin screw preference? - open
4. Diesel or gas preference? Diesel
5. Full displacement, Semi displacement/planing, Full plane hull? full displacement
6. Single or twin pilot stations, i.e. flybridge/salon or... ?? as I am solo, I am more concerned about access from the wheel to my ropes for berthing, etc...also tend to think flybridge models look unbalanced somehow..too much structure, too high
7. Boat material; FG, Wood, Steel, Aluminum... ?? FG -
8. Any makes/models/years you already have your eyes on? Hatteras, DeFever, Grand Banks Classic...

Was also going to consider a Tolleycraft, Art. How do you like yours?
Thanks for your response and kind welcome.
Lois

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Hi Lois!

Glad to hear your Clark is doing well... Did he ever tell you?? He and I lifted weights in World Gym for years, Arnie Schwarzenegger would let Clark, me, and our good buddy William (Bily) Markakis try his new design w/o equipment. Bily is best trainer in the U.S.! (Bily's a good friend of mine - google him - you'll learn his weight lifting / personal training qualifications) I tried to get Clark into the fine art of pugilism, but, he just kept hitting other boxers (unfortunate heavy weight contenders) so hard on first punch they immediately flew over the ropes and into the viewing public’s seats! Judges refused to count that as anything they could score. Clark never could get the hang of it. Too bad, he and I could have made some BIG $$$$ together. What's Clark doing as a reporter or Superman for that matter these days... not working for Rupert Murdoch I hope? Saving lost cats / stranded dogs would please him... I'll never forget his compassion for all life forms i.e. Truth, Justice, and The American Way! lol

Now, Back to boats!

Having decades (not all in a row) of power boating experience (with some sail boating mixed in) on New England east coast and Mid Cal west coast U.S., as well as many years when young working with shipwrights in boat yards in NY and a new boat builder in Maine, I can confidently say that the three boat brands you mention are some of the best constructed production craft on the market. There are others too... i.e. Bertram, Uniflite, Chris Craft... Of course as with any builder of production craft there are best years, models, and sequences to chose from.

Regarding Tollycraft: We were lucky to find our 34’ tri cabin Tolly in such well cared for condition at her classic age of 31 years when we purchased. We were looking in the 34’ to 38’ boat range of a fully self contained inland and near-shore cruising-craft due to conditions where we plan to dock and play for years. Having quickly and fully become “one” with our Tolly I became amazed at Tollycraft’s build-out quality and rock-solid construction techniques. The Monk naval architects, Ed Sr. and Jr., are top of the line; they along with Tollycraft founder Robert Merland Tollefson (affectionately called Tolly) designed some of the best boats I’ve encountered. As with any boat that has decades of use on its bones it is much the condition of the craft from diligent care of PO’s that counts a whole lot regarding its condition and value. We are 2nd owner on this one That said, I’d take a Tolly as top choice over nearly any other production boat maker if it has been kept-up correctly. From what you say... My recommendation to you is a 48’ Tolly... I’m looking at one with 6-71 nats for our eventual Pacific coast cruises using SF Bay Area as home port. North in summer / south in winter... Gotta Luv It! We'd be 2nd owner on this Tolly too... but... she does have a few items needing tending, cause her 90+ year 1st owner had let some things slide for a quite few years. Also, unlike our 34' Tolly living under covered berth for most of her life, this Tolly 48 was never covered and there are deck problems that make me hesitate... still contemplating on possible purchase of this boat-baby!

Good luck in your boat search - - > !!!

Cheers! - Art

So what is wrong with bunny slippers? If there was no other choice the bear ones might due but the fur would have brushed with maybe some blink, and the toe nails would definitely have to be manicured/shaped and painted. However, if you are not into slippers then at least have a boat to keep your pedicure/painted toes warm and dry. My wife is not into slippers either but she has thick blink socks that are very warm.




If you are thinking of coming up the Pacific Coast to the PNW, you will want a capable coastal blue water boat/trawler. Might be better to look/buy a boat/trawler in the colder northern climates as most of the boats/trawler are designed and already have the basics. The Eagle was a California boat and the first couple of year we dump/invest a lot to make her PNW live aboard ready.

Buy Cheep - Sell High! err... OK, that was in previous years.

Buy Cheep - Improve to your liking - Don't Sell! - That's in these years!!

Thanks to you all for your kind responses...lots of good meaty stuff to mull over and to delve deeper into....although I confess I am beginning to regard this more as a Slipper Forum!
Lois

Lois said:

Thanks ....although I confess I am beginning to regard this more as a Slipper Forum! Lois

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OMG - NOOOOO - - > Not that!!

Lois said:

Thanks to you all for your kind responses...lots of good meaty stuff to mull over and to delve deeper into....although I confess I am beginning to regard this more as a Slipper Forum!
Lois

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Oh no. You'll never see me in pink fuzzy slippers. Unless that is, you peek in the blinds.

Good question I also always wondered what describes a "trawler" I personally do not think my boat qualifies as a trawler. Trawler are (again in my opinion) derived from trawler fishing vessels who need a lot of payload to carry tons of fish. Later when companies such as Nordhavn decided to design "recreational" trawlers they were obviously based on these fishing trawlers which is great if you are into ballroom dancing because you can really exercise your hobby on those boats. Nothing wrong with space of course it is just that I would not like to pay the fuel build that comes with a heavy displacement trawler.
Peter

Ataraxia said:

Good question I also always wondered what describes a "trawler" I personally do not think my boat qualifies as a trawler. Trawler are (again in my opinion) derived from trawler fishing vessels who need a lot of payload to carry tons of fish. Later when companies such as Nordhavn decided to design "recreational" trawlers they were obviously based on these fishing trawlers which is great if you are into ballroom dancing because you can really exercise your hobby on those boats. Nothing wrong with space of course it is just that I would not like to pay the fuel build that comes with a heavy displacement trawler.
Peter

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Peter, full displacement hulls are extremely efficient when moving through the water at something less than hull speed. Delfin weighs 65 tons, draws almost 8 ft and at a little over 7 knots burns a little over 3 gph. You can get fuel efficiency with a very light boat as well, but heavy displacement does not necessarily mean fuel inefficiency.