Whale pump problem

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

I have just installed the Whale sump box with a Gulper 220 pump. I was expecting great results as I upgraded from the original Atwood box with flora switch and tiny bilge pump setup. There is a problem with the pump as I can feel air coming out of a hole near the backside of the pump head. There is air in the system so it is not pumping well and is very noisy. I have re-seated the diaphragm twice so I’m confident that is not the issue, but I’m confused by the air coming out of the pump. Does anyone experienced this and have a solution?

ScottC · Jan 18, 2022

Next thing I would check is what I call the "Joker" valve. See picture below. On the few occasions I've had trouble with my Whale gulper 220, they always seem to come back to this. Not seated properly or distorted or debris stuck in it, etc.

twistedtree · Jan 18, 2022

It looks like the pump head can be loosened and rotated to any convenient orientation. Are you sure you are hooked up to the inlet and not the outlet of the pump. It would be a silly, but easy mistake to make.

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

I will pull out that valve and check it. I’m confident that my in and out orientation is correct, but thanks. The pump is definitely ‘gulping’ loud but I can see air in the short line between the sump tank and the pump. Haven’t been able to get the pump to purge this.

Does anyone know if these pumps can be connected reverse polarity - could that be my issue?

rslifkin · Jan 18, 2022

I've only used the gulper in a direct shower drain to discharge application (no sump), but at least in that application, they're always loud (and often spit back slightly past the joker valve in the real world where you've got soap scum, hair, etc.). That said, I've got one that was put in 10+ years ago and has never been touched since and it just keeps working.

ScottC · Jan 18, 2022

Does it pump water out very well at all?

Check that adequate air is able to come IN to the tank. In other words, if all drains have their stoppers in...and there is no other vent, the pump will not be able to suck water out. Unlikely, I know - but I ended up installing a dedicated vent to my whale sump tank because of unique circumstances on my boat that inhibited proper pumping.

P.S. I've always found this pump annoyingly loud - so the loudness you hear may not be related to the problem...

P.P.S. An easy way to test for whether you need more venting is to fill the tank then, as it's pumping out, slightly unscrew the clear plastic cover so it lets air in. If that changes the behavior of anything for the better...then it suggests a need for venting (or similar)

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

rslifkin said:
I've only used the gulper in a direct shower drain to discharge application (no sump), but at least in that application, they're always loud (and often spit back slightly past the joker valve in the real world where you've got soap scum, hair, etc.). That said, I've got one that was put in 10+ years ago and has never been touched since and it just keeps working.

I appreciate the reply. I’m close to putting the old system back in as it worked and was quiet. I was expecting this to be a significant upgrade. I have AC condensation lines that run into the box or would have gone with the same setup as yours.

rslifkin · Jan 18, 2022

Constellation1 said:
I appreciate the reply. I’m close to putting the old system back in as it worked and was quiet. I was expecting this to be a significant upgrade. I have AC condensation lines that run into the box or would have gone with the same setup as yours.

In my mind, the primary benefit of the gulper over something like a small Rule pump in a sump box is that the gulper will process hair and other junk without clogging, which means less maintenance (although a sump box will still need periodic cleaning).

Out of curiosity, how high above the waterline are your AC units? 2 of mine are up high enough that they're just plumbed to gravity drain over the side.

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

Hi Scott,

It pumps water out poorly. Gulping is an appropriate term for this pump as that’s what I hear. There is no stream of water coming out the discharge it it spitting out a bit of water with each gulp. I can see air in the line between the sump box and the pump - which is only about 6” long.

I would expect a very hard stream of water overboard for a short period of time.

ScottC said:
Does it pump water out very well at all?

Check that adequate air is able to come IN to the tank. In other words, if all drains have their stoppers in...and there is no other vent, the pump will not be able to suck water out. Unlikely, I know - but I ended up installing a dedicated vent to my whale sump tank because of unique circumstances on my boat that inhibited proper pumping.

P.S. I've always found this pump annoyingly loud - so the loudness you hear may not be related to the problem...

P.P.S. An easy way to test for whether you need more venting is to fill the tank then, as it's pumping out, slightly unscrew the clear plastic cover so it lets air in. If that changes the behavior of anything for the better...then it suggests a need for venting (or similar)

ScottC · Jan 18, 2022

Constellation1 said:
Does anyone know if these pumps can be connected reverse polarity - could that be my issue?

I looked in the manual and found: "NOTE: The pump is protected against reverse polarity connection (The inline fuse will blow)"

rslifkin · Jan 18, 2022

Being a single diaphragm, the gulper will always move water in bursts. Each pump cycle will move a burst of water, so you'll never get a steady stream.

ScottC · Jan 18, 2022

Constellation1 said:
Hi Scott,

It pumps water out poorly. Gulping is an appropriate term for this pump as that’s what I hear. There is no stream of water coming out the discharge it it spitting out a bit of water with each gulp. .

That makes me suspect the Joker valve even more. It is a form of check valve...

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

rslifkin said:
Being a single diaphragm, the gulper will always move water in bursts. Each pump cycle will move a burst of water, so you'll never get a steady stream.

Perhaps my expectations were too high? It is moving water in bursts and it is noisy ?. Does yours run for a couple of minutes at a time while you’re showering? I was expecting it to run for short bursts as it purged the sump tank - but it runs much longer than anticipated.

If it is operating as designed, what’s the benefit? That I don’t have to clean the sump box as often? So far I’m unimpressed.

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

ScottC said:
That makes me suspect the Joker valve even more. It is a form of check valve...

I know that the joker valve is in place and I can blow through one way and not the other. Should I take it out and fully inspect it to ensure there isn’t another issue with it?

rslifkin · Jan 18, 2022

Constellation1 said:
Perhaps my expectations were too high? It is moving water in bursts and it is noisy ?. Does yours run for a couple of minutes at a time while you’re showering? I was expecting it to run for short bursts as it purged the sump tank - but it runs much longer than anticipated.

If it is operating as designed, what’s the benefit? That I don’t have to clean the sump box as often? So far I’m unimpressed.

Mine is on a switch, so you turn it on before getting in the shower and turn it off when done. The gulper doesn't care about running dry, so it just runs the whole time (only downside is noise).

In a sump box application, I don't see a lot of advantage to the gulper, honestly. In a direct pump application, the ability to process hair and such without issue is a big benefit (no need for a filter that needs frequent cleaning or anything).

ScottC · Jan 18, 2022

It, does, indeed, take "small gulps". 50 gulps would not be unexpected to empty my tank (which is the larger, 16L size). When I suspect it is running too long, I count the gulps...and if it reaches something closer to 100 before it shuts off, I know it's time for me to open up the tank and clean any scum off of the electronic float switch, as the scum is keeping it from detecting the lower water level fast enough.

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

One of my AC unit’s is very low - at the water line.

rslifkin said:
In my mind, the primary benefit of the gulper over something like a small Rule pump in a sump box is that the gulper will process hair and other junk without clogging, which means less maintenance (although a sump box will still need periodic cleaning).

Out of curiosity, how high above the waterline are your AC units? 2 of mine are up high enough that they're just plumbed to gravity drain over the side.

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

Whale just asked me to send them a video. I will do that and report back. My belief now is that I was expecting too much ?. Stand by.

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

Whale's opinion is indecisive. First they say that after viewing the video that the pump appears to be working correctly. You can see air in the hose between the sump and the pump - that can't be right. Then they say that there must be an air leak either at the sump connection or the pump inlet ... Everything is brand new and the connections are solid.

From here I am going to add a 90 degree connector to the hose going from the sump to the pump as I don't like the bend in the hose, and I will check the tricuspid valve as well. If I can get rid of the air, while I'm still underwhelmed, I think it will be working as it was designed.

O C Diver · Jan 18, 2022

I have a whale system for my shower sump and have been extremely happy with it. The pump is mounted in the engine room so noise is very minimal. I did have a failure with the pump at around 13 years old. Swapped it out with the spare I had. The diaphragm tore. Defender Marine stocks the rebuild kit at a very reasonable price. So it was a very simple matter to rebuild the pump end.

For the trouble you're having, I would disassemble the pump end and check all the components. It's incredibly easy to work on.

Ted

C lectric · Jan 18, 2022

Hose with a bend in it. If the hose interior has kinked then that could restrict water flow.
The suction side of all pumps must have an easy path to the pump. All that moves the water to the pump is air pressure. Block the suction path and the flow of water can be seriously affected.

Two 45o elbows would be better than one sharp 90o. HOwever a 90o will be better than a partly kinked shut hose.

DDW · Jan 18, 2022

Is the pump above or level with the sump? Unless the sump is full to well above the outlet to the pump, it will suck some air with each stroke. Since air moves easier than water, it isn't efficient, kind of prefers to pump the air. Ideally you want the pump below the sump, with a downhill run of hose between them - doesn't have to be much, but you'd like the pump inlet to be below the floor of the sump so it doesn't have the chance to suck a mixture of air and water. Having the hose between them very short encourages it to entrain air if it can get to any.

Constellation1 · Jan 18, 2022

This is very helpful. The pump is mounted to the side of the sump - there is a specific mounting bracket for it, however, I can mount it to the same bracket I have the sump on which would be a bit lower and a straight hose length from sump to pump. I can even extend the hose length this way and eliminate the elbo I was going to put in. Thanks!

DDW said:
Is the pump above or level with the sump? Unless the sump is full to well above the outlet to the pump, it will suck some air with each stroke. Since air moves easier than water, it isn't efficient, kind of prefers to pump the air. Ideally you want the pump below the sump, with a downhill run of hose between them - doesn't have to be much, but you'd like the pump inlet to be below the floor of the sump so it doesn't have the chance to suck a mixture of air and water. Having the hose between them very short encourages it to entrain air if it can get to any.

DDW · Jan 18, 2022

You could test the theory just by unmounting the sump and tipping it so the deep side is at the outlet to the pump, or even run enough water in the sink to back up the drain, then turn the pump on and see if it works better. They do make noise and spurt water as it is a single lobe pump, but it should to it pretty quickly and efficiently. Air in the intake side while there is still water to pump is bad for most any pump, but I think especially this style.

Whale pump problem

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