Questions from a total newb, USCG registration? Radio licenses?

In reading some of these threads about whether or not to use escrow services, brokers, etc.. some things have come to my attention that with my old 29 foot sailboat either weren't issues, or I was unwittingly running illegally.

I'm hoping to buy a FSBO 40 foot Albin, from Florida. Are all trawlers USCG registered? Just boats over a certain size? Only if you leave US waters? Also I saw mention of transferring radio license numbers. I'm used to just the normal marine radio, talk to marinas and bridges, other boaters, etc.. Am I missing something? I just want to be sure I have every T crossed and I dotted when (if) this deal goes through. Boat is in Florida, I live in NC.

Much is about what you need for DSC in new vhs radios and AIS. And EPIRBS.

Start here perhaps.

https://www.milltechmarine.com/About-MMSI_ep_69.html

Boats are not registered with the CG, they are documented. States register boats. To document a boat it has to be larger than 5 net tons, not a weight measurement but a volume measurement. A 40’ boat will be documentable, usually ober 25’ or 26’ is big enough to be documented. As to whether to document or state register the boat is a personal choice unless you finance the boat, then most banks will require documentation. Documentation is good if you leave the US. Some states will also require you to register documented boats but you can not display the state numbers, just the year sticker.

And to add to the above post you need to state register the tender with motor.

The documentation process is for a TITLE. You could alternatively TITLE the boat in a state.
You will most likely have to REGISTER the boat in the state it's domiciled and pay the state taxes.


The MMSI number, from the FCC IS transferable to the new owner, but a few hoops to jump thru.

Comodave said:

Boats are not registered with the CG, they are documented. States register boats. To document a boat it has to be larger than 5 net tons, not a weight measurement but a volume measurement. A 40’ boat will be documentable, usually ober 25’ or 26’ is big enough to be documented. As to whether to document or state register the boat is a personal choice unless you finance the boat, then most banks will require documentation. Documentation is good if you leave the US. Some states will also require you to register documented boats but you can not display the state numbers, just the year sticker.

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Ok, so based on the pics of the boat, I need to change documentation, maybe, as I'll buy the boat outright. I didn't see state registration numbers on it, but you're saying I could just do that instead? Is there any benefit one way or the other? Dumb questions I'm sure, but still learning here.

If you plan to enter international waters, documentation has significant advantages.

There may be tax savings

May make it easier to finance the purchase.

Don’t need numbers on your bow.

If the boat is currently documented you are Not required to document. You decide.

As others have said, it is very much a personal decision based on circumstances, locations, costs that can factor into either documenting a vessel with the CG or registering/titling with the state. Also, regardless of a vessel being US documented some states also require registration (not titling and no numbers, but an annual fee and sometimes a decal). Documenting does not relieve one of registering if the boat is principally kept and used in one of those states. For more info on the documentation process and how to transfer a documented vessel from one owner to a new one I suggest going to the source, the USCG National Vessel Documentation Center: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organi...s-DCO-D/National-Vessel-Documentation-Center/

Regrading radio licensing, that comes under the FCC. For the most part, there is no license requirement for the most common radios found on recreational vessels, VHF-FM. There is info on that here: https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/ship-radio-stations

MMSI is somewhat different from licensing and the source of an MMSI can be different depending on whether a vessel is to be operated internationally or only in US waters. Info at: https://boatus.com/products-and-services/membership/mmsi and here https://www.wikihow.com/Get-an-MMSI-Number

23435ps said:

As others have said, it is very much a personal decision based on circumstances, locations, costs that can factor into either documenting a vessel with the CG or registering/titling with the state. Also, regardless of a vessel being US documented some states also require registration (not titling and no numbers, but an annual fee and sometimes a decal). Documenting does not relieve one of registering if the boat is principally kept and used in one of those states. For more info on the documentation process and how to transfer a documented vessel from one owner to a new one I suggest going to the source, the USCG National Vessel Documentation Center: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organi...s-DCO-D/National-Vessel-Documentation-Center/

Regrading radio licensing, that comes under the FCC. For the most part, there is no license requirement for the most common radios found on recreational vessels, VHF-FM. There is info on that here: https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/ship-radio-stations

MMSI is somewhat different from licensing and the source of an MMSI can be different depending on whether a vessel is to be operated internationally or only in US waters. Info at: https://boatus.com/products-and-services/membership/mmsi and here https://www.wikihow.com/Get-an-MMSI-Number

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So MMSI is a different type of radio? Not the standard marine radio?

As to documentation, if the boat is currently documented then you can easily transfer it to you. Or if you want you can undocument it and have it state registered.

MMSI is not a radio but a number that is issued to you and get entered into your VHF radio. It is there to ID your boat in an emergency. It can be issued by Boat/US or the FCC. If it is a Boat/US issued it will not be entered into international data bases but only in the US.

bowball said:

If you plan to enter international waters, documentation has significant advantages.

There may be tax savings

May make it easier to finance the purchase.

Don’t need numbers on your bow.

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Most lenders require documentation as it allows them to attach a "mortgage" to the boat.

Drummer79 said:

So MMSI is a different type of radio? Not the standard marine radio?

Click to expand...

Comodave said:

MMSI is not a radio but a number that is issued to you and get entered into your VHF radio. It is there to ID your boat in an emergency. It can be issued by Boat/US or the FCC. If it is a Boat/US issued it will not be entered into international data bases but only in the US.

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And... if you have a GPS source connected to your modern (now pretty much standard) DSC-capable marine VHF radio... an emergency call will transmit your current location.

That'd be a good thing.

-Chris

I recently replaced my older VHF that I could not hook up to my chart plotter to a VHF with built in GPS. Doesn’t cost much more than a standard VHF.
Also got my MMSI number and plugged it into my VHF. In case of emergency, all I have to do is hit the emergency button and my exact position is sent out and my MMSI number identifies me as owner and make/size of boat.
As others have said, most of the time documentation is your choice and state registration is required in most states whether documented or not. I’m in VA, one of the few states where registration is optional for documented boats.

A documented vessel is like a part of the US. The Navy and Marines can come to your rescue as if a ship was taken by pirates. A state registered vessel is like having your car stolen, a law enforcement problem.

I learned the difference in the navy many years ago when we retook a yacht seized by pirates in SE Asia. Not many people today can say they fought pirates, but I did.

Comodave said:

As to documentation, if the boat is currently documented then you can easily transfer it to you. Or if you want you can undocument it and have it state registered.

MMSI is not a radio but a number that is issued to you and get entered into your VHF radio. It is there to ID your boat in an emergency. It can be issued by Boat/US or the FCC. If it is a Boat/US issued it will not be entered into international data bases but only in the US.

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Also enterer that number into your AIS transducer. Numbers can be transferred, but the owner must go (in my case) to Boat US and start the transfer. Than, being the NEW owner I had to pay $50 to complete the transfer.

I would do the Documentation your self. Its not hard to do and a lot cheaper.

Keep in mind that you can also send the VHF or AIS unit to the manufacturer and they can wipe out (factory default) the unit. Than you can enter your number in.

Its really a choice, do the transfer and pay $50, send the units in and be with out for 2 to 4 weeks OR buy new units. In my case the VHF was old, so I just bought a new one.

The sailboat I recently sold was Documented, and since it was in Michigan, state registered as well so it has state numbers too, just not displayed. New owner opted to go state only, so all he had to do was title it in his name and put the numbers on the bow. He showed me the title application so I know he did that. Last I saw the boat it still didn't have the numbers yet and kind of doubt he'll put them on until forced to but that's on him, not me. As said above, if you're on a state that doesn't register Documented boats, keep the documentation. It's usually cheaper at $26 a year. State registration for a 36 foot boat in Michigan for example is $244 for three years. Some states are cheaper, but probably more than $26. Other than that, there's no real advantage to documentation unless you're going international or your bank requires it.

As to radio license, recreational boats as someone else mentioned do not need one. But if you go outside the U.S. you will need one.

Many / most? States require documented boats to be registered in the home state. Some don't even issue state #s and those that do they are basically ignored. USCG Doc is equivalent to your title so no state titles issued.
The primary reason for states to require reg is so they can collect sales tax.
Check your state requirements for registering and display. In NY a current registration sticker needs to be displayed but that's all other than meeting Doc reqmts for name & home port display and Doc # prrmanently marked on inside of hull.

Is a radio license required for travel into International waters (Mexico) for a vhf? One of the problems with the Internet is that things never go away, all of the threads I can find on the topic are old.

It looks like both a radio license and a radio operators license are required to transmit outside of the US water...

jgwinks said:

The sailboat I recently sold was Documented, and since it was in Michigan, state registered as well so it has state numbers too, just not displayed. New owner opted to go state only, so all he had to do was title it in his name and put the numbers on the bow. He showed me the title application so I know he did that. Last I saw the boat it still didn't have the numbers yet and kind of doubt he'll put them on until forced to but that's on him, not me. As said above, if you're on a state that doesn't register Documented boats, keep the documentation. It's usually cheaper at $26 a year. State registration for a 36 foot boat in Michigan for example is $244 for three years. Some states are cheaper, but probably more than $26. Other than that, there's no real advantage to documentation unless you're going international or your bank requires it.

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Just titling the boat in the state isn’t all that needs to be done. It needs to be undocumented with the CG. Otherwise if you go to sell it you will have to wait until it is undocumented. Last year when we were in the market for a boat we ran into that very thing. The boat was registered and titled in Michigan but the PO didn’t undocument the boat so the lender would not finance the boat until it had been done.

AKDoug said:

Is a radio license required for travel into International waters (Mexico) for a vhf? One of the problems with the Internet is that things never go away, all of the threads I can find on the topic are old.

It looks like both a radio license and a radio operators license are required to transmit outside of the US water...

Click to expand...

Yes they are. Will you get in trouble if you don’t have them? Who knows but to be legal you need them.

Comodave said:

Just titling the boat in the state isn’t all that needs to be done. It needs to be undocumented with the CG. Otherwise if you go to sell it you will have to wait until it is undocumented. Last year when we were in the market for a boat we ran into that very thing. The boat was registered and titled in Michigan but the PO didn’t undocument the boat so the lender would not finance the boat until it had been done.

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Correct, but I do that. All he does is title in his name. No need to pay for both unless you have some other reason to do so, and he doesn't. Paid cash so no bank involved and he won't be going international.

Re state registration bow numbers, federal law prohibits displaying them on Documented vessels. That's why when/if you register with a state, you only display the sticker and not bow numbers.

There are two things as regards radios.
A personal license
A station license.
The MMSI is tied to the station license which is tied to the boat. It allows the DSC functions and AIS functions to seeminglessly function. MMSI numbers come in two favors. Those only recognized domestically. Those recognized throughout the world. Call numbers also are only good for a specific station(vessel).
A personal operators license comes in several favors as well. Those which allow use on marine bands only (important if you have SSB) or non marine bands as well such as a ham license. Unlike the station license the operator license travels with you regardless of which vessel you’re on. So I’ve served as the operator of record when crewing on other peoples boats.

Should mention MMSI is a pain in the butt. On our prior new build I could enter the assigned FCC number into our VHFs and AIS myself. On the current new to us boat I put in new MFDs but not new VHFs nor AIS so currently dealing with this PIA. But on our current new to us boat only a licensed installer is allowed to do it on a existing device having a MMSI in it. Unfortunately depending upon the brand of the device this sometimes means you need to remove the device and ship it to the manufacturer to enter the new assigned MMSI number. The MMSI number application requires you define your particulars, who to notify is case of mishap and the particulars of the vessel. It needs to be entered into all DSC VHFs, SSBs, AISs. Same information as with PLBs and EPRIBs.

Should mention documented vessels need to install a plaque or other of a defined size so it can be easily read that’s not removable and is visible somewhere inside the vessel clearly showing the documentation number. You are also required to have the original documentation paper on the vessel at all times except when presenting it to obtain practique.

If a boat is CG Documented and sold to someone who plans to state title it, the seller must request the boat be deleted from Documentation. Only the person who had the Documentation is able to request the deletion. The CG will then send a Letter of Deletion. This is important because the new owner needs to present the LoD when registering and applying for a state title. You won't get a registration and state title without it in most states.

If the boat is re-sold and the subsequent owner wants to CG Doc the boat he can do that but has to document the chain of ownership. This is where difficulties arise if the paperwork isn't complete and clear.

Starting this month, CG documentation is issued for 5 year period rather than 1 year. Some buyers do it themselves, I find most use a service. The CG site previously mentioned is very informative. It seems like 9 out of 10 owners think they don't need to state register if the boat is Documented - not always true, states want their sales tax. If you are caught you may owe the tax and likely a penalty!

Here there is no sales tax, just personal property, the state still wants it's little piece though so registration is required but numbers on the bow are not. However the local tax authority uses the state registration to find untaxed vessels, I was already paying property taxes on but when the state registration came up they attempted to double tax me on my vessel.

We've had some real problems when owners don't follow through on the paperwork. NY will hunt you down, eventually finding you and assessing tax, interest, and penalties.

The other problem as I mentioned is keeping the paper trail clean. I've had instances where prior owners can't be reached in trying to complete missing pieces in the chain of ownership. The Feds are helpful but really not flexible...

Snug Harbor said:

Starting this month, CG documentation is issued for 5 year period rather than 1 year.

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There is still a 1 year documentation option. IN 2018 the CG was instructed by Congress to implement only 5 year documentation for recreational vessels with a 5 year implementation timeline. However that was rescinded in the 2022 Defense Authorization Act:


The CG NVDC website still has the one year renewal option on the online renewal form but has yet to update the fee schedule which can cause some confusion. If oin doubt, call the NVDC.