Building a Nordhavn - again
- Thread starter twistedtree
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Outboards
Have you given any thought about an electric OB for your dingy?
Any recent trips with the boat you want to share?
John T
Have you given any thought about an electric OB for your dingy?
Any recent trips with the boat you want to share?
John T
OP
OP
twistedtree
Guru
If I ever get a small dinghy, like a 9 or 10' model, I would definitely consider and electric motor. But for the main dinghy which is a 16' RIB, a gas outboard is much more practical.
Other than the trip from Seattle up to Sidney, BC, all we did was run up to Montegue Harbour and anchor for about a week. It was great to be away from docks, towns, and people and to enjoy the boat the way we like the most. It also let me start to get familiar with off grid operation, and to start adjusting chargers for optimum recharge. I should be able to recharge at around 500A, but the inverter/chargers are coming up about 50A short and I'm not sure why. I suspect it's heat de-rating, but I haven't had a chance to try blowing a fan over them to see if it helps. But overall the LFP battery system is working really well.
No other trips planned until after Thanksgiving...
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twistedtree
Guru
We have been on and off the boat, and got in some more anchoring time. But most time has been finishing up various projects, and dealing with some manufacturers over lingering equipment issues. Much has been finishing up my own projects around the electronics. My network and navigation computers was a bunch of stuff in a cabinet with extension cords, network cables, and power adapters. I now have most of that sorted out in it's final form, powered the way I want, and neatened up a bit. I still have a few things to finish, but it's come a long way. As part of it I rearranged about 1/2 dozen power circuits. When I specified them probably two years ago I had a particular arrangement in mind for the computers and network, but that has evolved, and triggered a bunch of changes. I've also been installing (in baby steps) external LTE antennas, and external WiFi antennas to improve reception from both types of service. Otherwise things are working well, and we are looking forward to really getting underway in the spring.
One modification I made to the boat are a set of toe pockets molded into the hull so you can climb to/from the dinghy from the fore deck where it is launched and retrieved. It was a very speculative change, and I got lots of good suggestions from people about how to set up grab handles. Of course by the time the railings were being made for the boat, I was locked out of Taiwan because of Covid, so I had to make my best guess on a couple of things. I had the hard send me three grab handles for each side (there are steps on both sides of the boat), to be located and installed during commissioning. We installed two as a starting point, and they actually worked pretty well. For a spry young man, zipping up and down is no trouble at all. For someone older and less spry (moi) I found that there was nothing good to hold onto up at the top, especially to pull your self up and over the side of the boat. So one project I have commissioning is a modification to the railings to integrated an arched handle like you would find at the top of a pool ladder. It's unfortunately that I wasn't able to visit the boat at the right time because I could have just had them build the railing this way in the first place. Oh well. Anyway, with this issue taken care of, I think the boarding steps will work really well.
As for pictures, below are a couple of the boarding steps. As for the PH, I have literally thousands of pictures of every detail of the boat, and pretty much nothing that steps back and shows anything in context.
Attachments
I personally would be scared to use those toe pockets, especially with the overhanging curvature of the hull. Id be afraid if I slipped it would be a dangerous situation, falling and potentially hitting the back of your head on the tender getting knocked unconscious into the water.
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OP
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twistedtree
Guru
Any climbing up and down in that area carries such a risk, and there are dangers in riding up and down in the tender which is one of the alternative ways to do gain access. But I agree the curvature makes it harder and it was one of the concerns taking this approach. It ends up not being much of an issue because there is actually very little curvature at that point in the hull, and at the height where the steps are located. The hardest part of climbing it is pulling yourself up and over the bulwarks. Not ideal, but not really bad either. Also, if doing it again, I would make the step spacing a bit shorter. They are 16" which is a big step. It was just a tradeoff between the step height and how many pockets there would be. In the end you have to pick, and this is what I picked, for better or worse.
Speaking of for better or worse, the backup plan has always been to use a ladder as normally supplied by Nordhavn. They are just awkward, difficult to store, and difficult to install and remove. And you still have the issue of pulling yourself up and over the bulwarks. In talking to current owners, I found that almost none used the ladder. They either rode up and down with the tender, or climbed up and down the outside of the boat using window ledges as toe holds. My hope is that this will be an improvement on both of those, and so far I think it is.
You’ve obviously given it great thought. I didn’t think of all the plus and minuses’ of the various alternatives. With Nordhavn’s attention to detail, I could imagine them putting in retractable steps - joking, I think! Or a ladder attached to the crane? I’m just used to the tender on an aft boat deck so I hadn’t thought of this before. I hope it works well for you! Beautiful boat.
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twistedtree
Guru
All my previous experience has also been with a tender on the back deck where none of this is an issue.
Wow, talk about out of the box thinking with the steps. Nice concept and as discussed above "be safe". Curious how others with an aft PH and dingy forward design exit the dingy when it's time to retrieve it? Do you just walk the dingy from aft to forward using lines while onboard the Nordhavn? How would you attach the davit cable if you up on the mothership? thanks
John
John
I was watching a video of a delivery of a N68 to Alaska from last year. What’s the difference? Is there’s an aft pilot house somehow as they gave the rebar on the rear. Pros / cons if so if different key out?
And is there a stateroom for a pro captain if desired?
And is there a stateroom for a pro captain if desired?
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twistedtree
Guru
I’m not sure I fully follow the question, but yes, there are both forward and aft pilot house versions. The Alaska delivery boat is a forward pilot house. Mine is an aft pilot house.
Accommodation on both can vary quite a bit from boat to boat, but I think all are at least three cabins, one of which cold certainly be for a captain or other crew. But I think most 68s are owner-operated without crew. Not all, but I’d guess 75% or more.
OP
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twistedtree
Guru
I think it's all personal preference. I have only been on one or two forward pilot house versions, but I think one difference is that the FPH has more spaces, but they are smaller, where the APH has fewer spaces, but they are larger. At least that's how it feels to me.
The FPR also has much less overhang from the deck above, and as a result I think appeals more the people who are really into fishing. They guy who owns the boat in that Alaska delivery is a regular fish whisperer. And there was another FPH 68 recently delivered out of Dana Point where I know the owner is big into fishing.
If you are interested, the layout plans for both variants are on the Nordhavn web site.
Looks like they bought a N68 for a 5 year adventure.
Simi 60
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I know it's frowned upon as it "could" be dangerous but so is climbing the hull side
But I always thought if the crane and lifting points were suitable, as they should be, then a ride in and out while staying in the tender would be the logical choice.
Fend off with one hand, drive remote with other or, have crane operator on deck
Add: I see you mentioned that in your next post.
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twistedtree
Guru
I know it's frowned upon as it "could" be dangerous but so is climbing the hull side
But I always thought if the crane and lifting points were suitable, as they should be, then a ride in and out while staying in the tender would be the logical choice.
Fend off with one hand, drive remote with other or, have crane operator on deck
Add: I see you mentioned that in your next post.
I agree that there is risk no matter how you do it. And three different people will come up with four preferred approaches.
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Just superficially, and having taken on board all the former posts, if I was ever in the market for one of the larger Nordys, I'd personally be going for the FPH, rather than the APH. Mainly just for the ease of access to and from the tender to the boarding platform, etc, and somewhat easier tender launch and retrieval. I also prefer the slightly more secure and out of the way stowage of the tender above the cockpit aft, and the better sight-lines to the water surface ahead. But hey, what do I know..? Twisted's obviously thought through all of that. I'll never be in that league. However, it's nice to dream...
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twistedtree
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Just superficially, and having taken on board all the former posts, if I was ever in the market for one of the larger Nordys, I'd personally be going for the FPH, rather than the APH. Mainly just for the ease of access to and from the tender to the boarding platform, etc, and somewhat easier tender launch and retrieval. I also prefer the slightly more secure and out of the way stowage of the tender above the cockpit aft, and the better sight-lines to the water surface ahead. But hey, what do I know..? Twisted's obviously thought through all of that. I'll never be in that league. However, it's nice to dream...
You are absolutely right about the tradeoffs. Launching from a rear boat deck is easier, and the tender is arguably more secure in heavy weather. That said, everyone with a forward boat deck adapts and manages just fine. The engineer in me wants to make it better, which is why I've been messing around with other approaches. But everyone makes it work just fine. And a lot of these boats have been through a lot of weather and I don't think have ever lost a tender. I do know one guy who had a tie down break in heavy seas off the east coast of Greenland, but he also said that he thought he was going to lose the whole boat - and I don't mean the tender, I mean the big boat. So it was bad.
As for sight line, we were a bit worried about that, but after using the boat a bit, and frankly spending most of that time maneuvering from one dock to another and in an out of some very tight spaces, I don't really find it to be an issue. It takes a while to get a feel for where all of the extremities are on any boat, but once acclimated I don't think it's any easier or harder than my previous FPH boat.
The plus of the aft pilot house is a more comfortable ride in head seas, and for me, that was more important than tender convenience. This will vary hugely for different boats, but I also find the layout of the APH Nordhavn 68 much better than the FPH. I really don't care for the FPH layout, but it's all so subject to personal taste, and how you plan to use the boat.
The people I know who have picked FPH over APH are all avid fishermen, and the big appeal is a more open cockpit and less overhang from the deck above. Their cockpits don't have settees, and are just a big open space. For them, I think the choice was a no-brainer, as it was for me. Just different choices.
The forward tender was my concern too
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s18/tender-access-62854.html
If safety isn’t a concern, I would think it might deter occasional use as too much of a hassle?
My boat has low decks and access so it’s easier. Still craning anything is always more of a hassle than not so maybe it’s not a dramatic difference?
But once you have the tender lifted off the foredeck and swing over the side and lower it to the water, what do you do then, assuming you aren’t in it? Is there a way to get it to the swim deck or do you use the ladder or …?
Have there been any accidents?
The interior of the APH 68 does look really nice! I can see why that is preferred.
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s18/tender-access-62854.html
If safety isn’t a concern, I would think it might deter occasional use as too much of a hassle?
My boat has low decks and access so it’s easier. Still craning anything is always more of a hassle than not so maybe it’s not a dramatic difference?
But once you have the tender lifted off the foredeck and swing over the side and lower it to the water, what do you do then, assuming you aren’t in it? Is there a way to get it to the swim deck or do you use the ladder or …?
Have there been any accidents?
The interior of the APH 68 does look really nice! I can see why that is preferred.
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twistedtree
Guru
I am aware of three different ways to get the tender unhooked from the davit and moved aft to a boarding gate or to the swim platform.
1) Keep a tender line or two on board, and walk tender aft while paying out more davit line. This is probably the best method as long as there is a clear path to walk the tender aft, and enough davit line to reach aft.
2) Send someone up/down in the tender. The dangers are self evident in this approach. Also, at least my tender is carefully balanced on the lifting sling so it takes off and lands easily in the chocks. Throw in the weight of a person, and now all that has changed.
3) Use a ladder or other means to climb up/down from the deck to the tender while its along side the bow. This is how Nordhavns are set up, using a Marquipt ladder. I'm trying something different on mine and had toe pockets molded into the side of the boat so the ladder is essentially built in to the boat. I haven't used it other than to test it, but I think it's going to work and saves the hassle of handling and storing a ladder.
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Riiiight. Now seeing the above, I can understand why you went to all that trouble/extra expence getting the toe-holds moulded into the hull sides.
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twistedtree
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After our new boat arrived with severe shipping damage, I didn't have the energy to keep my blog going while also dealing with the boat. But things have finally settled down and I just posted this recap of the repairs. And there's more to come shortly.
https://www.mvtanglewood.com/2022/12/completing-repairs.html
https://www.mvtanglewood.com/2022/12/completing-repairs.html
Delfin
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Really sorry Peter....
How did the damage occur? I imagine you've explained before, but I missed it
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Mambo42
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Good to hear you finally have that finished. Now you can hopefully get to enjoying the boat the way it was supposed to be.
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twistedtree
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I've been enjoying it for over a year now. Just way, way behind on the blog and trying to get caught up.
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twistedtree
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Here's where the saga started https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=956702&postcount=262
But again, it happened two years ago and was long ago resolved. I'm just getting caught up with the blog.
But again, it happened two years ago and was long ago resolved. I'm just getting caught up with the blog.
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I can not imagine the emotional control you have. But those guys are Craftsmen, and it shows. Beautiful job.
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Peter, you may have explained this in your blog but were you made whole for the shipping damage by insurance, the shipper etc? Thanks for the update. What a beautiful boat, seeing it in person some months ago.
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