Replacing Headiner in a Mainship 400

Nicely done.

Nice job! Congrats!

I think I am going to do this over the winter. A couple questions:
-To confirm, you used the Flexa Marine Vinyl Fabric?
-Did you use the existing pieces as a pattern to cut the new strips ahead of time? If not, how did you trim to size?

Thanks and nice job!

Speaking of headliners.....Anybody have an idea as to what might be causing this issue with our Mainship 400 headliner?

Its kinda like the material got a chemical or something on it but it hasn't been touched.

Its getting worse over time it seems...might have to do what was done here.....

See my post #24 above. I'd suggest trying this if your headliner is physically in good shape and are just dealing with cosmetic issues.

@Newtrawlerowner, when you had the headliner open did you think about adding some insulation up there?

@jefndeb, definitely looks like that water drip has some minerals or salt in it. Check what's above it or where it can be traveling from.

garmstro55 said:

I think I am going to do this over the winter. A couple questions:
-To confirm, you used the Flexa Marine Vinyl Fabric?
-Did you use the existing pieces as a pattern to cut the new strips ahead of time? If not, how did you trim to size?

Thanks and nice job!

Click to expand...

Yes Flexa Marine Vinyl. The website says its mold resistant and has some UV protection plus its not that pricey and it turned out great.

No I did not use the old material as a pattern. No need. The material is 54" wide and its stretches. This is enough to get from the outside track to the middle. I included a previously posted picture that shows the 2 port side runs that I did as a trial. Do 1 run at a time. The material is way too heavy to pull it tight as you push it into the track. Also as you measure you'll notice that the narrow piece is the outside, the wider pieces are the inside. Look at my post dated 3/18/2021 for a drawing of what I mean. There are 5 tracks with the center track being the middle of the boat. I cut a length about 6" longer than the 15 foot length length. I started at the stern, installing the entire length on the port side run. Leave about 2-3" at the rear track to pull the material as you install. Then I did the rear then the other channel. I also installed a total of 5 runs. Once you look at your ceiling you'll see what I mean. You'll be left with about 3-4" of material. I used a new pair of upholstery shears, holding them flat against the ceiling and literally slid the scissors along to cut the remaining piece. I also tried a drywall knife. (DO NOT USE THAT METHOD. It left tiny cuts in the vinyl.) Then I pushed the tail piece left into the channel. As I mentioned I used a solution of bleach, soap and water in a spray bottle as a lubricant. Spray the track ahead of pushing the material in as well as the back and face of the vinyl. If you look at the picture I posted on the trial piece, you can see whats left after its installed. Another thing I discovered is when the builder installed the outside tracks they installed a 2.5" piece UNDER the track that then was pulled over the outside edge and pushed in to cover the outside edge of the track. (See picture of middle track. You can see what I mean here. You can see some vinyl under the track.) I started doing that as well but found you don't see the edge so no need. I only installed that piece across the stern track at the door as you do see this edge. When you remove the material you'll see what I mean.
I mentioned in a previous post but its worth mentioning again to apply some masking tape to the edge of the track where they cut slots in the track to go around the corners. I removed the old tape and installed the vinyl and these cuts show through the new material. I included a picture WITHOUT the tape.

The hardest part is going around the corners at the cabinets. Try using a dull butter knife and of course lots of patience. You need to pull the material tight as you go around these corners. I installed removed, reinstalled maybe 5 or 6 times before I got a wrinkle free look at each of the 3 outside corners. This part took the longest. Read all of my posts about doing this. As mentioned its only as difficult as the patience you have.
Good luck!!!!!!

Mako said:

@Newtrawlerowner, when you had the headliner open did you think about adding some insulation up there?

@jefndeb, definitely looks like that water drip has some minerals or salt in it. Check what's above it or where it can be traveling from.

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I didn't. I would suggest against that. When I purchased this boat there were several water leaks from the fly-bridge that i finally tracked down and sealed. Insulation would have held the water and probably created some serious mold issues.

jefndeb said:

Speaking of headliners.....Anybody have an idea as to what might be causing this issue with our Mainship 400 headliner?

Its kinda like the material got a chemical or something on it but it hasn't been touched.

Its getting worse over time it seems...might have to do what was done here.....

Click to expand...

It looks like you may have a water leak. I did as well and it left a stain on the headliner. I replaced mine because of that plus the material had split at the rear door and the material gets really sticky as it degrades. See my posts for replacing.

Well, there's no turning back now. Removed the ceiling lights and the window valence to clear the way for the new install. Need to remove the blinds as well. Pulled down the two strips to the port side to see what I am dealing with and I think the rest of the job will go well. I think I am going to use the old pieces as a pattern to cut the new pieces. I think Newtrawlerowner used the new vinyl in it's full width but I am thinking it will be easier to work with with the more narrow strips. That's the way the factory did it.

It's really not that hard of a job and I was worried about it so thanks to NTO for being the pioneer and posting the excellent descriptions.

I found in my local Target these OXO cake knives which I think will be just the ticket to tuck in the curves around the cabinet.

If you read the rest of my posts you’ll see I ended up cutting the full width piece to install the port side piece then the next piece. The weight of the full width piece turned out to be too heavy.

Newtrawlerowner said:

I didn't. I would suggest against that. When I purchased this boat there were several water leaks from the fly-bridge that i finally tracked down and sealed. Insulation would have held the water and probably created some serious mold issues.

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Do you recall specifically where your leaks were coming from? When you took off the headliner were they pretty obvious?


Thanks,
Doug

garmstro55 said:

Well, there's no turning back now. Removed the ceiling lights and the window valence to clear the way for the new install. Need to remove the blinds as well. Pulled down the two strips to the port side to see what I am dealing with and I think the rest of the job will go well. I think I am going to use the old pieces as a pattern to cut the new pieces. I think Newtrawlerowner used the new vinyl in it's full width but I am thinking it will be easier to work with with the more narrow strips. That's the way the factory did it.

It's really not that hard of a job and I was worried about it so thanks to NTO for being the pioneer and posting the excellent descriptions.

I found in my local Target these OXO cake knives which I think will be just the ticket to tuck in the curves around the cabinet.

Click to expand...

Looking good so far Gary! Please keep us updated as your project progresses.


Are you going to switch out the lights? Also, did you stick with a cream color or change to white?


Thanks,
Doug

Newtrawlerowner said:

I didn't. I would suggest against that. When I purchased this boat there were several water leaks from the fly-bridge that i finally tracked down and sealed. Insulation would have held the water and probably created some serious mold issues.

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You did a wonderful job with your headliner replacement.
However regarding to your statement, I totally disagree. The job of insulation is to make your boat more comfortable against outside temperatures. The job of the flybridge is to keep the water out. The job of the owner is to seal leaks in the flybridge.
We certainly don’t NOT insulate boats and houses because we’re afraid that there may be a leak one day that will cause mold to grow.

Mako said:

You did a wonderful job with your headliner replacement.
However regarding to your statement, I totally disagree. The job of insulation is to make your boat more comfortable against outside temperatures. The job of the flybridge is to keep the water out. The job of the owner is to seal leaks in the flybridge.
We certainly don’t NOT insulate boats and houses because we’re afraid that there may be a leak one day that will cause mold to grow.

Click to expand...

I agree with you however you have to agree that a well-insulated ceiling may take a long time, if ever, to reveal a small leak. At that point you mya have a reall mess to deal with. However, it depends on when and where you boat. If you are not often in extreme heat or cold for long periods, it may not be worth bothering.

Dougcole said:

Looking good so far Gary! Please keep us updated as your project progresses.


Are you going to switch out the lights? Also, did you stick with a cream color or change to white?


Thanks,
Doug

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I ended up ordering Ivory Flexa vinyl. To be honest, I haven't even unwrapped it to look at the color, but it's probably a shade lighter than the original. I am keeping the lights, not that I love them but I have to pick my battles and due to time/money constraints I don't have them on the priority list.

I just need a "warm" day here in the mid-atlantic to finish the job, something over 50 or so I'd guess.

Also, thanks for the update on the coolant drain, no wonder I couldn't see it behind the overflow reservoir!

Dougcole said:

Do you recall specifically where your leaks were coming from? When you took off the headliner were they pretty obvious?


Thanks,
Doug

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Obvious when raining hard. No so much with a light rain. Rain doesn't leave a stain trail to follow.

I found 2 leaks. One was from the courtesy light, starboard side under the rear bench seat. The water was leaking around the light and following the wire. Look under the seat locker. Finding this leak took multiple tries with a garden hose. The second leak was from the fly-bridge helm. Water runs down the face of the upper deck around the hinge the instrument panel is attached to. There was a drip channel I had removed and intended to replace. I did finally replace it. The water from this leak was migrating to the middle of the main salon.

Newtrawlerowner said:

The overall length is 15 feet so you'll need 10 yards of material. About $70 plus shipping.

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As it turning out that each run should be done individually, is the material required estimate still good?

Thanks....

Skip
Tampa

sailorskip said:

As it turning out that each run should be done individually, is the material required estimate still good?

Thanks....

Skip
Tampa

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[FONT=&quot]The short answer is yes. I would buy 11 yards.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The length of each piece is 15 feet. Because the width of most vinyl is 54" you will need a total of 30 feet or 10 yards. I would buy 1 extra yard so each piece is a little more than 15 feet long. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The combined width of the port side from the outside track to the middle track is under 52” with the starboard side just under 53”.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I would cut 1 piece 16' long. Then cut the port side run that is about 24" wide. The outside pieces are narrower than the inside pieces. You'll want the width to be 1-2 inches wider than measured to give yourself enough material to pull it tight as you push it into the track. [/FONT]

If you look at my post dated 3/18/21 you see a diagram that I made of the ceiling showing the width from the outside to the middle tracks.

Thanks for the info.

Skip
Tampa

Main stateroom headliner

Does anyone know how to remove the headliner under the deck walkway in the main stateroom? You know, around the perimeter of the bow where there is a walkway which creates a lower ceiling in the stateroom. There are screws at the end of each “panel” and it appears that if you remove the screws, the panel will come down, but it’s not coming down easily and I don’t want to force it and break it. I don’t think the track method is used here, the seem like panels with vinyl attached. Kind of seems like the vinyl from the lower bow sidewall wraps up and is stapled to the top of the removable panel

akpilotom said:

Does anyone know how to remove the headliner under the deck walkway in the main stateroom? You know, around the perimeter of the bow where there is a walkway which creates a lower ceiling in the stateroom. There are screws at the end of each “panel” and it appears that if you remove the screws, the panel will come down, but it’s not coming down easily and I don’t want to force it and break it. I don’t think the track method is used here, the seem like panels with vinyl attached. Kind of seems like the vinyl from the lower bow sidewall wraps up and is stapled to the top of the removable panel

Click to expand...

I am in the process of replacing all vinyl in v- berth now.
Those panels are held in place by the vinyl pushed into a track that is screwed into the face of the panel AND 1or 2 screws at the forward end of each panel.
I found that when they built the boat, they stapled the vinyl and foam to the topside of this panel, then pushed it into place and screwed as I just described.
Removing it will require cutting the vinyl and foam.
BTW there is almost no way of removing that panel without replacing the vinyl and foam on the hull.

Neither are glued down. I’ll post in-process pictures so you can see what I did.

Newtrawlerowner said:

I am in the process of replacing all vinyl in v- berth now.
Those panels are held in place by the vinyl pushed into a track that is screwed into the face of the panel AND 1or 2 screws at the forward end of each panel.
I found that when they built the boat, they stapled the vinyl and foam to the topside of this panel, then pushed it into place and screwed as I just described.
Removing it will require cutting the vinyl and foam.
BTW there is almost no way of removing that panel without replacing the vinyl and foam on the hull.

Neither are glued down. I’ll post in-process pictures so you can see what I did.

Click to expand...

Thanks, it would be much appreciated. I really hope we don’t have to cut the vinyl and foam and replace the vinyl on the hull! Is it possible that we can leave it attached on the outboard side and hinge it down so we can access the area? We have a leak I suspect is coming in from the rubrail. You can see it on the wood in the right side of my picture, up in the back corner under the vinyl

akpilotom said:

Thanks, it would be much appreciated. I really hope we don’t have to cut the vinyl and foam and replace the vinyl on the hull! Is it possible that we can leave it attached on the outboard side and hinge it down so we can access the area? We have a leak I suspect is coming in from the rubrail. You can see it on the wood in the right side of my picture, up in the back corner under the vinyl

Click to expand...

You probably can remove the panel without the vinyl and foam, but I don't know how you will be able to see anything. You will also more than likely damage the vertical vinyl panel between the lower wood piece and the upper headliner. In my case I was planning on replacing so I didn't need to be too careful and the vinyl was old and tore pretty easily. Not so when the foam is with it.

Here are some pictures of my process. I completed the side panels and the underside wood panels. I have not installed the vertical piece of vinyl or headliner. If you look at picture with me holding the staple gun, I'm stapling the vinyl to the starboard horizontal panel before I push it up into place. That's where I think you're going to have some challenges reinstalling.



Its difficult to communicate the challenges I had doing this. Removing the old vinyl was not as easy as it might seem due to the way they installed it initially. I ended up completely removing the port hanging locker and laying it up on the bed frame.
I glued wood strips to staple the new material to below the floor and up the hull behind the headboard. You can see the stapled material in one of the pictures. I included a picture inside the starboard hanging locker. If you look you can see that they used fiberglass to attach the locker to the hull. I had to drill holes in that piece to remove the staples that held the old material. Then push the new foam and vinyl into this same seam and finally staple it in place. Overall I'm extremely pleased with the final results. But this project like the main salon headliner was by no means easy.

Newtrawlerowner said:

You probably can remove the panel without the vinyl and foam, but I don't know how you will be able to see anything. You will also more than likely damage the vertical vinyl panel between the lower wood piece and the upper headliner. In my case I was planning on replacing so I didn't need to be too careful and the vinyl was old and tore pretty easily. Not so when the foam is with it.

Here are some pictures of my process. I completed the side panels and the underside wood panels. I have not installed the vertical piece of vinyl or headliner. If you look at picture with me holding the staple gun, I'm stapling the vinyl to the starboard horizontal panel before I push it up into place. That's where I think you're going to have some challenges reinstalling.



Its difficult to communicate the challenges I had doing this. Removing the old vinyl was not as easy as it might seem due to the way they installed it initially. I ended up completely removing the port hanging locker and laying it up on the bed frame.
I glued wood strips to staple the new material to below the floor and up the hull behind the headboard. You can see the stapled material in one of the pictures. I included a picture inside the starboard hanging locker. If you look you can see that they used fiberglass to attach the locker to the hull. I had to drill holes in that piece to remove the staples that held the old material. Then push the new foam and vinyl into this same seam and finally staple it in place. Overall I'm extremely pleased with the final results. But this project like the main salon headliner was by no means easy.

Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the pictures. I suspect the leak is from the rubrail in vicinity of port light. So you don’t think I’d be able to see the deck/hull interface to apply some sealant? Too cold (teens to 20s this week) to take off rubrail and seal from the outside

akpilotom said:

Thanks so much for the pictures. I suspect the leak is from the rubrail in vicinity of port light. So you don’t think I’d be able to see the deck/hull interface to apply some sealant? Too cold (teens to 20s this week) to take off rubrail and seal from the outside

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On my boat that void was filled with something like a hard foam piece that you will need to remove. Its like that expandable foam. There is not much room to get up there and see anything. Maybe with a mirror and light. If your leak is from the port hole window you'll need to remove that vertical piece of vinyl anyway. There is a trim ring around the window that you can unscrew. If the leak is from that you may be able to see that. The vinyl is stapled to a wood panel that the window is mounted in. Look at the picture here you can see the port window. The trim is removed.
I can easily imagine the window leaking, water runs down the hull to the lower wood panel that is tilted to the aft. But again you'll want to remove the vinyl to see the hull below the window.

akpilotom said:

Thanks, it would be much appreciated. I really hope we don’t have to cut the vinyl and foam and replace the vinyl on the hull! Is it possible that we can leave it attached on the outboard side and hinge it down so we can access the area? We have a leak I suspect is coming in from the rubrail. You can see it on the wood in the right side of my picture, up in the back corner under the vinyl

Click to expand...

If you suspect rubrail I wouldn't attack it from inside. The easier and best way is from outside. See Bacchus website... Projects Pg 4 for details and a link.
Very common on Mainships and others to leak at runrail.

akpilotom said:

Thanks so much for the pictures. I suspect the leak is from the rubrail in vicinity of port light. So you don’t think I’d be able to see the deck/hull interface to apply some sealant? Too cold (teens to 20s this week) to take off rubrail and seal from the outside

Click to expand...

For a temporary fix I have had very good luck with foil faced tape. It conforms well to shapes and sticks well. I have used it at times for trying to find a leak source by coving areas sequentially. Once found it can be an effective temp solution until time, Wx etc permits a more permanent fix.
The deck to rubrail intersection is the place where the water enters so focus on that intersection. Drilling a few drain holes in the bottom of the C shaped PVC piece helps drain any water before it can get through the joint or screw holes.

sailorskip said:

Thanks for the info.

Skip
Tampa

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Hey Skip, you should order at least 11 yards, maybe 12. I just rolled out my 10 yards in my basement to cut the vinyl using the old items as a pattern and I ended up short as I had bought exactly 10 yards. The problem, at least with my situation, is that on the starboard side the run is not continuous from the door to bow. There's a narrow piece above the galley and another wider piece above the helm. Above the helm the piece there is wider than 27" so, unlike to other strips, you can't get two pieces out of a 54" wide roll of vinyl like all the others. If I had another yard I might have had enough to nest it into the remaining vinyl, but with two more yards I would have had plenty.

My advice is to get 12 yards to be safe or carefully measure the existing pieces and lay the dimensions out on a grid or CAD system to see if you can get by with 11 yards.

Bacchus said:

If you suspect rubrail I wouldn't attack it from inside. The easier and best way is from outside. See Bacchus website... Projects Pg 4 for details and a link.
Very common on Mainships and others to leak at runrail.

Click to expand...

Thank you, I have already looked at your website in researching this. Very good information, thank you for making it available for all of us. I don’t think I can address it from the outside in this weather...probably going to have to wait for spring.