engine electronic controls = bad?

AlanT said:

Buried deep in the engine room is a manual gear change/throttle that overrides the electronics. It is a sacred spot. Analagous perhaps to my Dad's old Singer Gazelle (1963?) which came with a crank starter.

I have no beef with any development as long as we are all allowed to step off at the point that it gets too complicated for us.

~Alan

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Here I am commenting on my own post!

Just wanted to add that the crank handle on the Singer Gazelle was frequently exercised by my father. He swore it had a high compression 'sport' engine. The last OEM hand cranked (back up) starter to my knowledge was as recently as the Hillman Imp of 1976.

With knowledge brings less fear.

Bacchus said:

Yes... the same could be said for corded vs cordless drills, saws etc but how many old useless tools have you acquired due to dead battys?
I guess I'm just old fashioned or a hold out but I do like the life of the old technology. I'd like to see tool mfg guarantee their battys or at least offer a trade in of dead battys at a reasonable cost (at least less than a new tool, charger + 2 battys!)
In spite of the above I have a Glendining elec control and like it compared to previous mechanical control.

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I bought all new Ridgid cordless tools that come with a lifetime service contract including batteries if you register them online within 90 days.

Notice I did say "small" tools. I agree that I probably wouldn't try clearing a building lot with a battery powered chainsaw, but for the avg homeowner that has to cut up a felled limb once a year, battery power is probably better than a seldom used gas motor. My chainsaw is one of the hardest things to start that I own. I still own some corded drills but probably haven't used them in 10 years. Battery is so much more convenient and gets the job done. I'm not drilling for hours. I'm not quite ready for a battery lawnmower or snowblower, but maybe in the future. I just replaced my Craftsman 2-stroke weed whacker/hedge trimmer with a DeWalt electric. It's not only easier to start and use, it's lighter AND more powerful than the gas (cuts bigger branches). I wear out before the battery does. Next up is probably a hand-held leaf blower. Most manufacturers are making a whole line of tools that can share the same battery. Cheaper and makes more sense to me than a garage full of devices each with their own small gas engine.

Comodave said:

I bought all new Ridgid cordless tools that come with a lifetime service contract including batteries if you register them online within 90 days.

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Dave
Interesting... I hadn't heard that but glad at least one mfg has stepped up.

I bought all new Milwaukee battery powered tools. With each tool they included an extra battery and each came with a charger.
I had a Mika 90degree drill but the batteries became more expensive than a new drill. Just bought a 90 degree attachment

One thing I find in common with electronically controlled diesel engines (below 1,000 HP), cordless drills, and most tools that replaced gas engines with batteries, is the owner's anticipation of the tool's life expectancy. To be fair, some percentage of the population can't visualize owning most new things (car, boat, house, etc.) more than 5 or 10 years. It's the mindset of always looking for what's new. In their mind, "reliable for my ownership, not my problem after that". For the rest of us, the market is driven by those that have to buy new every so many years, and we've learned to accept that. That doesn't make those things long term reliable. Usually the item isn't worn out. A component has failed that is no longer available or isn't economically realistic.

For the record, I've owned several good quality cordless electric drills. When they have inevitably died or lack sufficient battery power, I pull out the 40+ year old Makita corded drill and finish the job.



I happily accept the convenience of a cordless drill. I recognize that if airplanes were as reliable as cordless drills, we would all be dead now.

Ted

OldDan1943 said:

I bought all new Milwaukee battery powered tools. With each tool they included an extra battery and each came with a charger.
I had a Mika 90degree drill but the batteries became more expensive than a new drill. Just bought a 90 degree attachment

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I would prefer 1 battery and charger for multiple tools. At least if it made them less expensive.

backinblue said:

I would prefer 1 battery and charger for multiple tools. At least if it made them less expensive.

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It's relatively easy to find Dewalt tools sold without battery & charger. Just make sure the tools you buy all use compatible batteries. Perhaps other manufacturers offer the same.

Portage_Bay said:

It's relatively easy to find Dewalt tools sold without battery & charger. Just make sure the tools you buy all use compatible batteries. Perhaps other manufacturers offer the same.

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I understand and I agree. I was just commenting on Old Dan's post that every tool he buys comes with a charger and multiple batteries. May be unnecessary.

backinblue said:

I would prefer 1 battery and charger for multiple tools. At least if it made them less expensive.

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All the batteries and chargers are the same. That is why I bought the same manufacture
If all goes as planned, I will die before I wear these tools out.

Bacchus said:

I guess I'm just old fashioned or a hold out but I do like the life of the old technology.

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I'm 80 years old now and have had my share of battery powered tools that no longer work. After many years of replacing them I finally found the solution and have embraced it for the last 20 years. I would have done this in my Duffy as well but a 5 mile extension cord was a little over $92,000.

Shame on you Codger! You are supposed to be pro battery! Just kidding. I get it, but on the other hand, I have about a 10 year old cordless drill that shows no sign of dying. It may some day, but it's cheap enough to replace. I can't imagine having to deal with a power cord all the time. Maybe for a specific project, fine. But for example, my boat is on the hard right now. I recently needed a drill/driver to remove about a dozen screws from both sides of the boat. Sure glad i didn't have to find power in the yard, then make sure I had a long enough extension, and then have to drag that extension with me around the boat to remove a few screws. Then have to coil everything up afterward. Ugh, no thanks!

The only rechargeable battery powered tool I've had that needed replacing was a squirrel tossing spinning bird feeder. My two decade old Ridgid drill recently had one battery show a "bad" indicator on the charger but it charged and works fine.

I have a dusty bin with some corded power tools that I keep in case I have a particularly heavy duty job to deal with. But, for the most part, I'll take the rechargeable tool with me on any job.

There is a big difference between a 1/8 hp hand held drill motor and a 5 hp chain saw. Modern cordless electric drill motors are great: use is intermittent enough that with two batteries you can use it all day long. As the batteries get better bigger tools become practical - I have a Milwaukee battery powered buffer that I can also run all day long, switching two batteries between tool and charger. Again that is a <1/4 hp motor. 5 hp chainsaw is a different matter with current batteries. It is ether going to be very heavy, only run for a short period, or be gas powered. That will change in the future, but not today.

DDW said:

There is a big difference between a 1/8 hp hand held drill motor and a 5 hp chain saw. Modern cordless electric drill motors are great: use is intermittent enough that with two batteries you can use it all day long. As the batteries get better bigger tools become practical - I have a Milwaukee battery powered buffer that I can also run all day long, switching two batteries between tool and charger. Again that is a <1/4 hp motor. 5 hp chainsaw is a different matter with current batteries. It is ether going to be very heavy, only run for a short period, or be gas powered. That will change in the future, but not today.

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Agreed. I love all my battery hand-held power tools. Even the small chain saws have a place. I could easily end up with one myself to keep in the side-by-side for clearing trail obstructions. But I can't imagine trying to cut up a 12" hardwood tree, let along something bigger. Even if the battery lasted, it would just be too slow. Now if you only cut up one such tree in your lifetime, going slow isn't an issue. But if you cut a couple per year, let along a couple per day, those 45cc to 85cc chain saws start looking pretty good.

Have battery weedwacker, trimmer, leaf blower. Wife didn’t like the weight of gas powered. Still, for spring and fall doing the yard I pick up the gas powered units. They remain more powerful with current tech. Especially notable with the leaf blower. For chainsaws it’s a huge difference. Wife’s family collectively own a hunting camp which gives us 25 acres of wood lot. Cut fresh oak and other hardwood . Then a gas powered splitter. Then stacked under house for use 3-4 years later. No question in my mind unfortunately for small engines there’s still a place for gas. Agree it’s a pain to mix, run carbs dry, fog, gap plugs etc. but the tools are older than my children and still work. Other than plugs and air filters all parts original.
Biggest thing I hate in tools and boats is the replacement of sturdy, long life metal parts with friable, brittle junk.

Hippocampus said:

Have battery weedwacker, trimmer, leaf blower. Wife didn’t like the weight of gas powered. Still, for spring and fall doing the yard I pick up the gas powered units. They remain more powerful with current tech. Especially notable with the leaf blower. For chainsaws it’s a huge difference. Wife’s family collectively own a hunting camp which gives us 25 acres of wood lot. Cut fresh oak and other hardwood . Then a gas powered splitter. Then stacked under house for use 3-4 years later. No question in my mind unfortunately for small engines there’s still a place for gas. Agree it’s a pain to mix, run carbs dry, fog, gap plugs etc. but the tools are older than my children and still work. Other than plugs and air filters all parts original.
Biggest thing I hate in tools and boats is the replacement of sturdy, long life metal parts with friable, brittle junk.

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While I have no use for it anymore living in Florida, I seriously considered building a log splitter with an electric 5 HP motor and a 2 stage pump about 10 years ago. Not as fast, but no gas engine and a whole lot less noise.

Ted

..

Just curious when/how this thread went off the rails. Looks like post #18.
And, it was mine [emoji15]
Mea culpa [emoji41]

backinblue said:

Shame on you Codger! You are supposed to be pro battery! Just kidding.

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I understand the acceptance of battery powered tools but when the battery is dead (which happened to me a lot) & the job at hand wouldn't wait, having an extension cord and an electric drill is priceless! I am not pro battery, rather I am pro electric! Wanting an electric boat with an inverter and outlets for plugging in 110v appliances was my goal. Recent progress in battery chemistry is great & I look forward to my first LifePO4 banks. Note: I just completed my first year of ownership of my Duffy 22 Cuddy. My total use of diesel is zero and my need for zincs is one. I have fewer scars from hose clamps and absolutely no burns from a hot engine and access to all the various components necessary for an electric boat are under the seats. Life is great! (Now where did I store that extension cord & drill?)

+1 for the electric weed whacker. 40v lion battery starts it every time!

diver dave said:

Just curious when/how this thread went off the rails. Looks like post #18.
And, it was mine [emoji15]
Mea culpa [emoji41]

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It's all your fault Dave!

Codger2 said:

I understand the acceptance of battery powered tools but when the battery is dead (which happened to me a lot) & the job at hand wouldn't wait, having an extension cord and an electric drill is priceless! I am not pro battery, rather I am pro electric! Wanting an electric boat with an inverter and outlets for plugging in 110v appliances was my goal. Recent progress in battery chemistry is great & I look forward to my first LifePO4 banks. Note: I just completed my first year of ownership of my Duffy 22 Cuddy. My total use of diesel is zero and my need for zincs is one. I have fewer scars from hose clamps and absolutely no burns from a hot engine and access to all the various components necessary for an electric boat are under the seats. Life is great! (Now where did I store that extension cord & drill?)

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Wifey B: I cheer you on.

You found the perfect boat for you today at this point in your life. That's what we all need to do, not the one someone else thinks we should have but the one that brings us pleasure and comfort at the level you describe.

Still different boats for different folks.
Same problem throughout. Lack of infrastructure. I have a diesel Jeep. It has a range of 720 miles at 70-80 mph and rock crawls. The bride and I commonly use it to wander between states. Usually have a final destination but will wander. When we are out of fuel getting more is a non issue. We have two vehicles. Really want one to be electric. Best range we can find is 400 miles. Went it runs out needs a plug and hours to recommence the trip. Looked at our recent trips. No infrastructure to even do that.
Same with our cruising style. Commonly pick a final destination but not being under time constraints wander. Often are off grid for weeks.
Same with working in the wood lot. Carrying 5 gallons is more than enough. Your day is limited by how long there’s sunlight and do you still have the energy to stay safe with power tools.
Yes electric is great but in multiple day to day situations is just doesn’t cut the mustard. It’s a supplement. The boats having new new panels to cut down on generator runs. The electric chain saw is fine if you have to climb to limb before felling. The electric leaf blower is fine except for fall clean up. Electric vehicles are great except for long duration off grid or long haul.
Things will change. Electric semi’s are our future. Probably automatous just like ships. For all its faults “build back America “ is necessary so China doesn’t keep eating our lunch. So the infrastructure will come and the settings where electric doesn’t work will become more infrequent. I’ve been an early adapter on many things. Have a zero footprint house. But I’m happiest where people aren’t. Many people have similar tastes or are in situations where electric just doesn’t cut it. For cruising boats think the future is decreasing power demands. At present that means light, long narrow boats with solar supplements. Current offerings are Al diesel. Next step CF hybrid. Next step depends on advances in material engineering and battery/charging technologies. For present pure electric is for day tripping but just isn’t sufficient for cruising.

AI, IMO, for boats traveling ICW, is a long way off. So long as there are idiots on PWC, AI may never happen.

If AI can drive a car through city streets or a truck across the country, I don't doubt it could be adapted to boating. In fact it's probably easier, just not much of a demand so not a priority, at least for recreational boating.

Yep - agree with most of the posts here, seems that you should be ok with a cordless weed whacker powdered boat as long as you have a couple of spare batteries if you are planning on going out wide.

backinblue said:

If AI can drive a car through city streets or a truck across the country, I don't doubt it could be adapted to boating. In fact it's probably easier, just not much of a demand so not a priority, at least for recreational boating.

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There have been reports of AI cars hitting people, bikes and other cars so, IMO, AI has ways to go.
Per boats? I remember one incident of a boat on fwd looking sonar coming a rather dramatic stop.... to avoid something. Of course the occupants were a bit shocked and upset. So I think AI will need to defined first.

Shipping will likely be first adapters. The AI required for a interface between guard zones and AP is fairly straightforward. Optimizing for best VMG per gallon a bit harder but much easier than the mixed environment of land traffic. Beta testing underway now. Believe AIS will be required for all vessels in international waters. Recreational included. Radar would work but doesn’t have the identifiers the insurance and lawyer types would want.
Won’t change my behavior. Have always assumed on passage ships are on AP with a asleep non English speaking crew on watch. After a few days of traveling nice to know if your AIS is still working. Cruise ships will occasionally let you know. Shipping rarely will respond.