How We Ended Up Buying a New Boat

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hrk

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I am not sure if this thread is going to be interesting to others except who are making a call to buy their first boat. I am writing it up here just so I record our process while things are fresh in my head.
We are an older couple, in 60’s - me hitting 70 next month. More details on us can be found on a thread i started in welcome forum. This would be our first boat purchase, transitioning from sailors to being boaters. There is also another type of transitioning. As sailors, we owned a 40’ freedom for over 12 years and cruised maine to annapolis - mostly maine - every year for roughly 4 weeks a year. Lived on boat for that period. But, now the big transition being planned is to become full time live aboard when the new boat is commissioned.

This process of buying a boat began abruptly. Just before COVID forced us all to be indoors and work remotely, we had sold our sail boat and had started renting sailboats in exotic locations around the world. COVID restrictions put a stop to it. So, for past 18-20 months, we regretted giving up our sailboat and were continually looking for sailboats we would want to buy. Veered from buying a new one to looking at boats on the market. But, for some reason did not pull trigger.

Then, one day after being vaccinated and able to travel again (under travel constraints of course), we did two trips alomost back-to-back. First was to BVI on a bareboat sail rental (my wife is as good a sailor as me and we have always travelled without a crew or captain). 10 days on water was heaven. Next we set off to do our first motorboat rental in Anacortes, WA and do 9 days in San Juan Island on Grand Banks 46. We did take lessons on handling a boat with a captain for first three days but then cruised on our own.

That trip was a crucial first step in our current journey that has just begun. Wife did love sailing but did not ever want to live for long periods on a sailboat. Me on the other hand has a gypsy soul and would have given up homes and lived on a boat if not married.

After the experience of GB46, wife suddenly started talking of buying a boat. Her rationale was - as we get older we would be more comfortable with motorboat rather than sailboat. Besides, she argued that anyway we dont sail as often as we motor sailboat due to adverse weather or wind patterns. Both of those arguments i agreed with so we started to seriously think about owning a boat.
That trip on GB 46 was in July 2021, just few months back. And, now on Dec 1, we have made a selection and about pull a trigger on purchasing a new 60’ boat.

In next few emails, i will recount how we conducted our search, why we made a call just in few months, etc.

Hope readers will enjoy watching this unfold gently and at 7 knot speed that we are accustomed to!

HRK
 
The following is just my uninformed comments. I did sail, when I was younger. A couple of non-class boat and one International 110.
One difference between a sail boat and a motor boat, you dont have to adjust the sails on a motor boat.
I have been told, sail boater spend a great deal of time motoring when close or inshore.
Sails are expensive. Diesel engines are expensive.
In a storm, on a motor boat, one does not have to brave the weather to adjust the sails. As we get older, that becomes less and less "fun"
Sails are nice if you are going long distances 'outside'.
Motor boat with inside helm? That's where the food, coffee and head, heat and A/C are located.
Sail boat? You worry more about bridge clearances and water depth.
LOL Is that enough?
 
I am not sure if this thread is going to be interesting to others except who are making a call to buy their first boat. I am writing it up here just so I record our process while things are fresh in my head.

We are an older couple, in 60’s - me hitting 70 next month. More details on us can be found on a thread i started in welcome forum. This would be our first boat purchase, transitioning from sailors to being boaters. There is also another type of transitioning. As sailors, we owned a 40’ freedom for over 12 years and cruised maine to annapolis - mostly maine - every year for roughly 4 weeks a year. Lived on boat for that period. But, now the big transition being planned is to become full time live aboard when the new boat is commissioned.



This process of buying a boat began abruptly. Just before COVID forced us all to be indoors and work remotely, we had sold our sail boat and had started renting sailboats in exotic locations around the world. COVID restrictions put a stop to it. So, for past 18-20 months, we regretted giving up our sailboat and were continually looking for sailboats we would want to buy. Veered from buying a new one to looking at boats on the market. But, for some reason did not pull trigger.



Then, one day after being vaccinated and able to travel again (under travel constraints of course), we did two trips alomost back-to-back. First was to BVI on a bareboat sail rental (my wife is as good a sailor as me and we have always travelled without a crew or captain). 10 days on water was heaven. Next we set off to do our first motorboat rental in Anacortes, WA and do 9 days in San Juan Island on Grand Banks 46. We did take lessons on handling a boat with a captain for first three days but then cruised on our own.



That trip was a crucial first step in our current journey that has just begun. Wife did love sailing but did not ever want to live for long periods on a sailboat. Me on the other hand has a gypsy soul and would have given up homes and lived on a boat if not married.



After the experience of GB46, wife suddenly started talking of buying a boat. Her rationale was - as we get older we would be more comfortable with motorboat rather than sailboat. Besides, she argued that anyway we dont sail as often as we motor sailboat due to adverse weather or wind patterns. Both of those arguments i agreed with so we started to seriously think about owning a boat.

That trip on GB 46 was in July 2021, just few months back. And, now on Dec 1, we have made a selection and about pull a trigger on purchasing a new 60’ boat.



In next few emails, i will recount how we conducted our search, why we made a call just in few months, etc.



Hope readers will enjoy watching this unfold gently and at 7 knot speed that we are accustomed to!



HRK
Your experience mirrors many, though I doubt any two paths are identical. You are a good writer. I for one will look forward to updates and wish you and your wife the best success!

Thanks for sharing

Peter
 
Greetings,
Disclaimer: I've been aboard a sailboat twice. Never left the docks. While I can sort of appreciate the quiet and "freedom' of traveling under sail, it holds absolutely NO interest to me what-so-ever. Our early boating career was limited to inland waters quite a bit of the time amongst the 1000 islands in the St. Lawrence River. Admittedly NOT the best sailing venue.


A fellow I used to work with WAS a sailor. He raised sail EVERY chance he got. He decided to buy a larger boat and supposedly got a great deal on a 10? year old boat. He surmised the covers had never been taken off the sails. That boat had spent it's life on the St. Lawrence.



A plethora of sail boats on those waters but to see one actually under sail is a REAL rarity. They're power boats with a stick.
I've asked several people "Why aren't you sailing?" Stock answers were: The wind is too weak/strong, the wind is from the wrong direction and we're only going a few miles (too much trouble/work to raise the sails).



Mr./Ms. hrk. You've made the right choice IMHO.
 
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Curious what boat you landed on hrk. An new 60 footer is quite a leap! Wish you all the best.
 
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I am not sure if this thread is going to be interesting to others except who are making a call to buy their first boat... And, now on Dec 1, we have made a selection and about pull a trigger on purchasing a new 60’ boat.

Sounds very interesting. So you and your wife are well-experienced sailors, some motorboat experience from your charter, and you're now buying a new powerboat of about 60ft instead of a used one. Congratulations on making a decision, not that any of us would ever be classed as "procrastinators" :)

Curious to know about what boat you've decided meets your needs and how you plan to use it.
 
This is going to be a great thread !!
Get on as many power boats as you can for ideas. I've heard that there is more usable space on a power boat than a sailboat. Seems a sailboat and you are either in the cockpit or the cave, where a trawler you have more areas to move around. 40' would be about the minimum for a liveaboard. 60' might be a little big for a couple to handle but with a good layout and thrusters should be manageable.
Good luck !!
 
IF you insist on a 60ft trawler, regardless of your sailing experience, I suggest you get a training captain for a day.
 
I presently have three boats in different geographical locations: two Willard trawlers (30 and 40ft) and a light weight 34ft sailboat. I have owned a boat for the past 63 years. My take is the following and it meshes with your conclusions.

Sailboats are best for two things: day sailing and crossing an ocean. There is little aesthetic enjoyment from an afternoon motoring and most trawlers cannot cross oceans safely. However for cruising, the trawler is much superior for the reasons you and others have expressed.

Two suggestions. If you are already close to 70 and wish to enjoy your trawler for many years: 1. Do not buy a boat with stairs. The sedan style comes closest to this. 2. Be sure that access to the engine room does not involve crawling or excessive bending.

Good luck in your adventure.

Richard P
 
Oh I hate to be watching a television show and waiting for the big ending, only to have it conclude with "To Be Continued" and that's what hrk just did to us. Give us the rest of the story now that you have us hanging here.
 
Oh I hate to be watching a television show and waiting for the big ending, only to have it conclude with "To Be Continued" and that's what hrk just did to us. Give us the rest of the story now that you have us hanging here.

Who shot JR? ?
 
Who shot JR? ?

That started the season ending cliff hangers which now nearly every show has and I hate. I've also found the resolution in the first episode the following year generally disappointed and was a bit anti-climatic. Everyone remembers "Who Shot JR" as a theme but most people do not remember who shot him.

On the other hand I do look forward to more here from the OP.
 
Sailing is great! Motor boating is better - under most circumstances!!
 

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....Two suggestions. If you are already close to 70 and wish to enjoy your trawler for many years: 1. Do not buy a boat with stairs. The sedan style comes closest to this. 2. Be sure that access to the engine room does not involve crawling or excessive bending.
Good luck in your adventure.
Richard P
☝️ ? I'd just add a third suggestion, that no doubt many others would disagree with - you know, the ones who say they nearly live up in their flybridge... :D
However, at risk of the above, :hide: I'd suggest that instead of a flybridge, a pilot-house design with a sedan or Europa type layout aft of that, in order to minimise steps, and maximise the indoor/outdoor living it makes easier, etc. :)
 
Better talk to your insurance agent before signing the purchase agreement. They can have experience requirements.
 
☝️ ? I'd just add a third suggestion, that no doubt many others would disagree with - you know, the ones who say they nearly live up in their flybridge... :D
However, at risk of the above, :hide: I'd suggest that instead of a flybridge, a pilot-house design with a sedan or Europa type layout aft of that, in order to minimise steps, and maximise the indoor/outdoor living it makes easier, etc. :)

+1
 
Our Tolly's steps are pretty EZ to deal with.

- Two steps to get aboard - off dock stoop

- One step to get into salon - through slider door

- One step to get into forward big V-berth stateroom - with a good sized full head

- Two steps to get into master stateroom - with a queen, a double and a large full head

- One step to get onto sun deck - off rear deck platform

- One step to get onto bridge - off sun deck

Getting down off rear deck platform to reach the swim platform has four steps on a ladder.

Custom built, multi step swim ladder with thick knotted pull-up line off transom to the swim platform is easy as pie for coming in/out of water.

All areas with steps have really great railings etc for hand holds and safety.

Wife is 72 and I'm 70 next April! We see years of Tollycraft boating fun for years yet to come!
 
☝️ ? I'd just add a third suggestion, that no doubt many others would disagree with - you know, the ones who say they nearly live up in their flybridge... :D
However, at risk of the above, :hide: I'd suggest that instead of a flybridge, a pilot-house design with a sedan or Europa type layout aft of that, in order to minimise steps, and maximise the indoor/outdoor living it makes easier, etc. :)

Peter. Did you call? When I am unable to get up and operate from the CB it will be time to give up boating. Preference for it is no different than preference for a pilothouse. Each to their own comfort level.
 
i have three boats and they all have stairs. it seems like it's always three steps up or thee steps down. hand rails are what i need more than less stairs. stairs are no big deal as long as i have a good sturdy hand hold.
i have a sailboat that i've cruised extensively around puget sound. it's got plenty of room, nice enclosed cockpit. tons of storage. hardly ever sail it though.
bought a 40 foot trawler this year to replace the sailboat. what i noticed right off: more range. i can go twice as far in one day than i used to.
more headroom. i got tired of stooping over all the time. now i can stand up tall when moving about the whole boat. (engine room excluded)
less stability. sailboats have better stability, especially when the sails are up. even when they're down the roll is slower.
higher fuel expense. even with a single very economical engine the fuel burn is way more than i had before.
more relaxing cruise. i much prefer the cruise from the pilothouse as opposed to the sailboat cockpit. it's quiet, and there's room for plenty of people to sit around the settee and keep me company.
i think there's a lot of ex-sailors on this site. trawlers seem like a natural evolution when we get a bit older.
 
This is going to be a great thread !!
Get on as many power boats as you can for ideas. I've heard that there is more usable space on a power boat than a sailboat. Seems a sailboat and you are either in the cockpit or the cave, where a trawler you have more areas to move around. 40' would be about the minimum for a liveaboard. 60' might be a little big for a couple to handle but with a good layout and thrusters should be manageable.
Good luck !!

If I am reading the title of this thread correctly and the inferences by the OP, this advice is a day late and a dollar short as the boat is bought,
 
The OP seems to be out of pocket and hasn’t responded with any more details. However he did have a different thread where he stated he was considering either a KK or a Nordy
 
From sailing to a 60' trawler. I've had a Chris Craft 27', Ranger tug 25, and currently a Ranger tug 29 post sailing career (H-28, E-25). So why am I agonizing over a handling a 41'? But to clarify: just the two of you? no crew?
 
From sailing to a 60' trawler. I've had a Chris Craft 27', Ranger tug 25, and currently a Ranger tug 29 post sailing career (H-28, E-25). So why am I agonizing over a handling a 41'? But to clarify: just the two of you? no crew?

one or two thrusters?


On my N46, as I recall, I went from a 3hp bow thruster to a 12hp bow thruster. It was as different between night and day. The powerful bow thruster let me lay the fwd 1/3 of the boat against the dock, rig a line and then use the rudder to bring the stern in to rig a line.
Sooooo, my advice is to buy the next size up in the thrusters, assuming your batteries will support it.

I have been told there are new props for the side power that will make them more efficient but, I cant find information on them. HELP!!!
 
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one or two thrusters?


On my N46, as I recall, I went from a 3hp bow thruster to a 12hp bow thruster. It was as different between night and day. The powerful bow thruster let me lay the fwd 1/3 of the boat against the dock, rig a line and then use the rudder to bring the stern in to rig a line.
Sooooo, my advice is to buy the next size up in the thrusters, assuming your batteries will support it.

I have been told there are new props for the side power that will make them more efficient but, I cant find information on them. HELP!!!

Yes, there are new style props that are better than the older 4-blade type. I just bought one after breaking a couple blades last season. Very reasonable. Not sure what is avalable depending on what thruster you currently have. I assume you mean something like this:

https://www.sleipnergroup.com/thruster-systems/thruster-upgrade/q-prop/Propell-sett-SP125
 
First of all I apologize to BandB about slow recounting of our story of buying a new boat.
I sympathize with the feeling being annoyed about having to wait for cliffhangers.
I was never much a fan of TV show Dallas and that cliffhanger of "who shot JR?" thing, either.

Alas, although I am retired, I am having what I say is an active retirement. That means everyday there are multiple different agendas competing for my time. Moreover, currently,
I am in the process of sale of our primary home and also moving to a different continent for a period of 2 years before we return back to USA permanently (for my wife work).
But, I shall try to speed up and conclude this thread in two or three more installments, each written up daily, hopefully!

When we started the process we were open to buying a used boat as well as a new boat. I understand the logic behind buying a slightly used boat. fast depreciation in early years, all the kinks worked out and some are well maintained and are mainly "distress" sale i.e. due to changed circumstances or changed interest levels. so, we kept an open mind on it almost till the end of the process.

The first call we had to make in order to narrow our field of choices was to list what was important to us. After talking to few friends and doing a lot of internet research, it appeared that how we planned to cruise and favorite cruising grounds were important factors.

We decided that we are looking to cruise mostly coastal - first year for east coast of USA from Maine to Bahamas. Later years look to do Caribbean islands. I more than my wife is interested in curing meds in Europe for couple of years. She would rather stay closer to USA and take a boat through Panama Canal and take over boat to west coast to seattle and to Alaska. So, what does that leave out? We are not that keen on taking the boat across oceans - Pacific or Atlantic. Seems like either you have too much of exciting trip or a too many dull boring days crossing oceans - not something we desired. Same way, we are hardy but in a way lazy cruisers. More likely to do 4-5 days overnight trips but no longer. Globe circumnavigation is not in our future. In few years, we will probably be back on land with permanent home in Bay Area and boat being used three four months a year to live one in PNW area.

Given that type of cruising parameters, we embarked on deciding which style of boat and what length works best for us. If we were younger or using this boat to entertain friends, our choice could be different but currently we thought that full displacement fits us best. At 60's retired couple, we are unlikely to get somewhere in hurry. and, we value the extra sense of motoring comfort and stability we get in full displacement boat, even though its ocean crossing ability was not a major draw for us.

We visited several boat shows, devoured Internet (and this website - mostly by my wife) to get educated about several vendors, boat styles and then narrowed our choice to Kadey-Krogen, Nordhavn, Fleming and Selene. I realize that I have already offended many veterans on this forum by excluding their favorite brand of boats and vendors from this short list. Perhaps that was due to our ignorance and inexperience. But, I think any such list is likely to be more of personality driven.

What was and is important to us as we head in to cruising lifestyle?
Living comfort was topmost as we are as likely to be cruising as to be stationary perhaps even more hours at anchor than motoring. Our kids are not in to sailing or motoring so we don't quite expect to have many visitors on our boats for long periods. And, they will be so busy with their careers anyway for next seven years.

Manuverability was also very important since we are new to boating - having thrusters, stabilizers etc a must. But, also, this is going to be our home and thus not quite ready to have crew on it. so, the boat has to be comfortable for two and manuverable (without panic attacks) by two. We are both in good health so did not place that much emphasis on not having stairs within the boat. We did see a boat (I think it was N80) where there was hydraulic elevator built in to take one person from bedroom area to saloon and to flybridge. The boat was too big for us and somehow that much money did not seem like good value. We may though regret not paying much attention to this aspect as we keep aging.
In any case, our plans is to buy a boat, keep it for 6-7 years and then sale it. (If my wife permits, big if, I might even buy a day sailor - I agree with the person who said that sailboats are most fun in long voyages and couple of days trips but not for live-aboard lifestyle).

One factor we kept loose was how much we spend for a boat. The sailboat we bought 14 years ago was used and did not cost that much. Over the years, I always regretted not upgrading it to very nice 60 foot sailboat that we saw on the market in 2014. We did not buy because I felt that its price of 700K plus was too much to pay for one or two months of sailing every year. That was really a great sailboat but can not rewind to past. now, things are different.

Meanwhile, our financial situation has changed, making it feasible to think in bigger numbers. We started with a target budget of low 2 mils that was not very firm and ultimately, we ended up thinking even bigger than our initial figure. I will detail some thinking on that in my next post.

The considerations above drove our choice of boat length. We saw many 40's and concluded that we need minimum 50' to live comfortably full time on a boat. and, anything above 60' seemed like a stretch for handling by two people. so, 50-60 became our range.

With these choices made, we started intensively to look at various models from these vendors on our short list. In my next post - which I expect to become a bit more of emotions from various readers, I shall talk about which one we finally chose to go with.

BTW: I do not mind any criticism or adverse comments about our process. It is a part of belonging to such a forum, Besides, I find such comments interesting to read, because it sometimes adds to my knowledge base. And it helps that I have a rather thick skin, developed while being an entrepreneur / founder of internet companies in my past life!!
 
Hang in there. It will get worse and better. LOL
 

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