Packing gland question.

I'm getting ready to work on my packing gland. I've never done this boat, it has required tightening more often, and the plunger looks to be close the as far as it can go. So, sort of routine maintenance.

I guess the old packing slowly wears away, otherwise there would be no reason for periodic adjustments. Which made me wonder why I would bother pulling out what remains of the old stuff. Getting it out and dealing with the inrush of water is the most tedious part of the job. Why not just put in two, or better yet, three new wraps of packing? Let the old stuff continue to disappear.

Which then made me wonder why cut three individual pieces. Wrap the stuffing around 3 1/2 times and then cut the start and finish with a long taper. One might say that the start and finish might not be perfectly flush, although having removed old stuffing I'd say that material mushes up a lot. And unlike the three section method, with the single piece method there would be no seams (which also depend on the stuffing's ability to mush up in order to seal).

Is removing the old and adding three separate rings just tradition that can be ignored?

Only thing I can say is the old packing doesn't disappear. It wears where it contacts the shaft. The outer packing is still there. If it wore away there wouldn't be any to remove maybe. Might be hard to get the new packing in.
The old way has been proven over how many years now......
Never a good idea to reinvent the wheel unless your adding/using something new/different to the mix.
Just my thoughts.....

Marco Flamingo said:

I'm getting ready to work on my packing gland. I've never done this boat, it has required tightening more often, and the plunger looks to be close the as far as it can go. So, sort of routine maintenance.

I guess the old packing slowly wears away, otherwise there would be no reason for periodic adjustments. Which made me wonder why I would bother pulling out what remains of the old stuff. Getting it out and dealing with the inrush of water is the most tedious part of the job. Why not just put in two, or better yet, three new wraps of packing? Let the old stuff continue to disappear.

Which then made me wonder why cut three individual pieces. Wrap the stuffing around 3 1/2 times and then cut the start and finish with a long taper. One might say that the start and finish might not be perfectly flush, although having removed old stuffing I'd say that material mushes up a lot. And unlike the three section method, with the single piece method there would be no seams (which also depend on the stuffing's ability to mush up in order to seal).

Is removing the old and adding three separate rings just tradition that can be ignored?

Click to expand...

It depends on the stuffing box how many layers it needs. Our last boat took 6 layers. The reason not to do a spiral wrap is that the water will just follow around the spiral and leak into the boat more than necessary to lube the shaft. Put in however many layers needed and do a 90 degree cut on each. Then stagger the cuts so they are not in alignment or the water will leak through the cuts. I used Duramax packing. It lasts very well and it can be adjusted so that it doesn’t leak. You put it in loose and run the boat for 5 to 10 hours and gradually tighten the stuffing box just to the point it isn’t leaking.

Gee, I've been doing a spiral for right at 60 years without a problem.
A round file with the tang formed into a hook is an easy way to snag and pull out the old packing. And if it's a spiral, it all comes out in one piece.

Marco Flamingo said:

I'm getting ready to work on my packing gland. I've never done this boat, it has required tightening more often, and the plunger looks to be close the as far as it can go. So, sort of routine maintenance.

I guess the old packing slowly wears away, otherwise there would be no reason for periodic adjustments. Which made me wonder why I would bother pulling out what remains of the old stuff. Getting it out and dealing with the inrush of water is the most tedious part of the job. Why not just put in two, or better yet, three new wraps of packing? Let the old stuff continue to disappear.

Click to expand...

Don't be fooled! I have opened the packing glands on my propshaft and rudder shaft and in both cases, when I thought I had them all, I DID NOT.
In both cases, I think the previous owners gave up when they felt "hard bottom" on the packing glands when they were doing replacements.

I wanted to be absolutely sure I had hit bottom and even I was fooled. I kept prying even after I thought I was done. I had to dig deep and SLOWLY to pry out the last packing ring. In both the rudder and propshaft, that last packing ring was OLD and ROCK HARD.

Old rings that are hard-as-a-rock are basically like a grindstone scratching and wearing down your propshaft. So make sure you get them all out.

Marco Flamingo said:

Which then made me wonder why cut three individual pieces. Wrap the stuffing around 3 1/2 times and then cut the start and finish with a long taper. One might say that the start and finish might not be perfectly flush, although having removed old stuffing I'd say that material mushes up a lot. And unlike the three section method, with the single piece method there would be no seams (which also depend on the stuffing's ability to mush up in order to seal).

Is removing the old and adding three separate rings just tradition that can be ignored?

Click to expand...

NO!

I watched a YT video of a packing gland training conference for industrial machines where they went into great detail regarding the proper packing method.

The most important take-away I got from the training beyond what I learned from sailing YT packing videos is this: You have to (gently) compress each ring one-at-a-time when you insert it to get it to squish uniformly from front to back.
If you just stuffed the box with say 3 or 4 rings (or one continuous wrap), then when you went to install the compression nut/flange/whatever-its-called, the first ring compresses the most, the second not-so-much and the third nothing at all, effectively rendering it useless. Also the first packing ring being over-compressed, wears out faster. The last ring just leaks happily away carrying no load. Not good.

By gently pre-compressing each ring, you will ensure that by the time you get to the last ring and bolt'er up, all the rings will compress evenly and control water bypass better, and wear more evenly.

I use a split piece of PVC to insert the individual layers of packing. It gets the layer back into the stuffing box nice and evenly.

Comodave said:

I use a split piece of PVC to insert the individual layers of packing. It gets the layer back into the stuffing box nice and evenly.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I have been mulling over the idea of how to do that. The training video I watched showed a custom packing seal packer and I wondered how I could get my hands on that. Love your idea. Going to go to my plumbing bin and make one for myself now....

Yes, just find a piece of PVC with an ID slightly larger than the OD of the shaft and rip in two. Woorks great..

Comodave said:

I use a split piece of PVC to insert the individual layers of packing. It gets the layer back into the stuffing box nice and evenly.

Click to expand...

I do the same. No screwdivers or it will just pierce the new packing.

Don't know or remember would be more accurate. I switched over to dripless shaft seals several years ago, and never had a problem in 20,000 miles.

Lots of good tips here, it's easiest if you are out of the water and you can separate the packing nut from the shaft and pack it, then put it back over the shaft as in Commodave's photo. Of course this requires separating the shaft from the coupler, and I replace both packing and cutless bearing before the packing hardens completely in the gland, because it's easier for me that way.

My 1 1/4" shaft uses 5/16" packing, and I can't imagine pulling or putting it into the nut around the shaft with it coupled up. It's difficult enough when it's off the shaft, and I use a piece of fiberglass tubing the same diameter as the shaft pushed through the nut to guide it back onto the shaft with the packing installed.

to stop the wate rfrom gushing in, I tightly wrap a small plastic carry bag from the grocery store around the shaft after having slid the nut up & away. Then just slide the plastic bag down in the packing gland and it is nearly waterproof for as long as you need to work on removing and replacing your packing.

Comodave said:

Yes, just find a piece of PVC with an ID slightly larger than the OD of the shaft and rip in two. Woorks great..

Click to expand...

Thanks Dave, great tip!

Marco Flamingo said:

I'm getting ready to work on my packing gland. I've never done this boat, it has required tightening more often, and the plunger looks to be close the as far as it can go. So, sort of routine maintenance.

I guess the old packing slowly wears away, otherwise there would be no reason for periodic adjustments. Which made me wonder why I would bother pulling out what remains of the old stuff. Getting it out and dealing with the inrush of water is the most tedious part of the job. Why not just put in two, or better yet, three new wraps of packing? Let the old stuff continue to disappear.

Which then made me wonder why cut three individual pieces. Wrap the stuffing around 3 1/2 times and then cut the start and finish with a long taper. One might say that the start and finish might not be perfectly flush, although having removed old stuffing I'd say that material mushes up a lot. And unlike the three section method, with the single piece method there would be no seams (which also depend on the stuffing's ability to mush up in order to seal).

Is removing the old and adding three separate rings just tradition that can be ignored?

Click to expand...

Last year our packing gland started to leak. After repeated attempts to tighten, add, or replace packing a close inspection revealed that the prop shaft was pitted and that no amount of packing would stop a steady dripping leak. We ordered a replacement prop shaft and installed a dripless coupler while we had it apart. It was the ideal solution for us. Good Luck!
Proud Mary

Proud Mary said:

Last year our packing gland started to leak. After repeated attempts to tighten, add, or replace packing a close inspection revealed that the prop shaft was pitted and that no amount of packing would stop a steady dripping leak. We ordered a replacement prop shaft and installed a dripless coupler while we had it apart. It was the ideal solution for us. Good Luck!
Proud Mary

Click to expand...

Crevice corrosion where the packing seals on the shaft is quite common on older boats, and depending on the corrosion severity compared to the shaft diameter and the individual boats’ arrangement (advice by a qualified operator) one solution is to trim back the rubber stern tube where the packing is mounted, say a couple of inches, so the new packing seals on a fresh piece of shaft.

Southern Boater said:

Crevice corrosion where the packing seals on the shaft is quite common on older boats, and depending on the corrosion severity compared to the shaft diameter and the individual boats’ arrangement (advice by a qualified operator) one solution is to trim back the rubber stern tube where the packing is mounted, say a couple of inches, so the new packing seals on a fresh piece of shaft.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I thought of that and tried shortening the old hose that slipped over the shaft tube but the little voice in my head started screaming for me to replace the 40+ year old components while on the hard instead of panicking somewhere in the Chesapeake Bay.

If you use this packing, you can tighten to almost dripless.

Find something, pipe or a socket, the same OD as your shaft to use as a mandrel to preform your rings. If you cut the rings at an angle, as many suggest, you will find that if you cut in one direction, they will be slightly too long and cutting in the other direction will leave them slightly too short.
Many don't believe it so try it yourself with a strip of paper around a rod.

I just wrap the new packing around the shaft in front of the shaft log and cut it to length. It always fits.

Jim Cooper said:

to stop the wate rfrom gushing in, I tightly wrap a small plastic carry bag from the grocery store around the shaft after having slid the nut up & away. Then just slide the plastic bag down in the packing gland and it is nearly waterproof for as long as you need to work on removing and replacing your packing.

Click to expand...

How do you work around the plastic bag?
Sounds like it will be over the packing gland cavity, right where the work must be done.
I’ve used “elephant poop” on the outside to slow the water flow, no reason a plastic bag wouldn’t do the same thing, except you’d want to remove it before running.

Comodave said:

I just wrap the new packing around the shaft in front of the shaft log and cut it to length. It always fits.

Click to expand...

Bingo, give the man a cigar!!

I started with the rudder packing gland. It had been weeping since I bought and there was a lot of rust around the post. I first tried simply tightening the packing gland follower. Bronze nuts on a stainless threaded studs. They turned easily, but the gland follower had so much corrosion on it that I could easily tell it wasn't being drawn down into the throat. When I lifted up on the nut the SS threaded rod simply lifted out of it's tapped hole. Both studs were completely corroded away where they contacted the bronze plate. It seems that SS and bronze don't play well together.

I cleaned everything out with rust remover and a dental pick. My local hardware store didn't have a 3/8 16 thread follower or 3/8 16 SS threaded rod. But they did have SS 3/8 16 x 3.5" carriage bolts. I used them to clean out the threads and then used them as my new SS studs.

The gland itself was quite full of packing, probably because it hadn't been adjusted in years (decades?). A little tightening with my rebuilt gland studs and all is well. It does make me wonder about what might be going on under the nuts on the SS studs that hold down the packing throat plate. Those studs also go through a bronze plate.

Hopefully the propeller packing gland won't have similar surprises.