Another new start for Helmsman

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Tom-Jill-Lilly said:
Helmsman - what stage is your boat in now?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the question Tom. The boat is out of the molds, and some of the interior is being installed. The hull and deck are still separate. Engine is not in yet.

The last couple of weeks, I have been working on the final electronics order. I have already ordered a 16” and 12” Furuno TZ3, SCX20, and NXT Dome radar. Autopilot is next, and then a Vesper Cortex.

I am trying to decide between NMEA2000 Maretron cables, and Actisense. I do want metal connections, as they are more reliable for the long haul.

The National Marine Electronics Association has settled on a new standard called OneNet, which will augment and probably eventually replace NMEA2000 and 0183 systems. What that means for all of us is that the hardware we have will have limited upgrade capability in the future, at least in regards to using OneNet.

I don’t see that as a major issue because it will take time for OneNet hardware to roll out. Support will continue for NMEA2000 due to the massive commercial shipping infrastructure (which is far more heavily invested in 0183).

I will wrap up the electronics in December/January with the type of Local Area Network I want to set up on the boat. I am leaning heavily towards Peplink hardware. And, camera structure. I want a backup camera that will also serve as a security camera, and a couple of engine room cameras.

One question I have yet to resolve is whether to go with a spotlight on the front, or go with an infrared camera. The infrareds are pricey, so I want to make sure they would truly serve the purpose before going with one.

Would like opinions on spot lights versus infrareds from folks reading the posts. Actually on any of the above path forward.
 
Helmsman said:
...and then a Vesper Cortex.
Click to expand...

I am wanting Cortex for our VHF/AIS/Vessel Monitoring solution too. I am trying to find as much information about the system as I can right now.

As for the rest of the system??? Garmin, Furuno, Simrad...don't know yet :blush:

Rick
 
If you go with Garmin, I believe their 17" chartplotter display fits on the H38E dash. (I saw one on a 2017 H38E that was for sale a year ago.) Expensive, but it makes good use of the available space on the dash.
 
Nancy and Rick said:
I am wanting Cortex for our VHF/AIS/Vessel Monitoring solution too. I am trying to find as much information about the system as I can right now.

As for the rest of the system??? Garmin, Furuno, Simrad...don't know yet :blush:

Rick
Click to expand...

One thing to consider on the Cortex. The system uses the same antenna for both VHF and AIS. In order to get the best possible performance, you will need to get an antenna that is tuned to 159 mhz. VHF is best at 156 mhz and AIS is best at 162 mhz. Vesper sells their own 159 mhz. I believe it was on the SeaBits site that another was tried and found to work well.

https://www.milltechmarine.com/Vesper-Marine-AISVHF-Antenna_p_284.html

https://www.milltechmarine.com/Morad-HD-VHF-Marine-Antenna--6dB-gain_p_477.html

Both represent a compromise, but is the only way to receive on a Cortex. Not a deal breaker for me as a River and coastal cruiser, with a Bahamas trip or two in the future. Might be a different consideration with trips further off shore, or perhaps longer range radio areas.
 
Two Truths said:
If you go with Garmin, I believe their 17" chartplotter display fits on the H38E dash. (I saw one on a 2017 H38E that was for sale a year ago.) Expensive, but it makes good use of the available space on the dash.
Click to expand...

I saw that, also. That set up looked sharp.
 
Helmsman said:
One thing to consider on the Cortex. The system uses the same antenna for both VHF and AIS. In order to get the best possible performance, you will need to get an antenna that is tuned to 159 mhz. VHF is best at 156 mhz and AIS is best at 162 mhz. Vesper sells their own 159 mhz. I believe it was on the SeaBits site that another was tried and found to work well.

https://www.milltechmarine.com/Vesper-Marine-AISVHF-Antenna_p_284.html

https://www.milltechmarine.com/Morad-HD-VHF-Marine-Antenna--6dB-gain_p_477.html

Both represent a compromise, but is the only way to receive on a Cortex. Not a deal breaker for me as a River and coastal cruiser, with a Bahamas trip or two in the future. Might be a different consideration with trips further off shore, or perhaps longer range radio areas.
Click to expand...

Has Vesper solved the squelch issue many were complaining about?
 
bowball said:
Has Vesper solved the squelch issue many were complaining about?
Click to expand...

Currently, the VHF provides three “levels” of squelch, as opposed to a “dial” that allows you to set the squelch across a range. The three levels of squelch are not sufficient to eliminate squelch issues. The last time I looked they are working on it, along with channel scanning, and a couple of other issues.

Since software updates can solve the issues, they expect that it will be fixed fairly quickly. They have been pretty aggressive about getting known issues fixed. Some of this is to be expected, I guess, since it is a new technology for VHF radios. SeaBits, Panbo, and Milltech Marine all offer write ups.
 
Last edited:
Helmsman said:
...I will wrap up the electronics in December/January with the type of Local Area Network I want to set up on the boat. I am leaning heavily towards Peplink hardware...
Click to expand...

Interested in what you decide here too! I have been looking at the Pepwave MAX BR1 Pro 5g router:

https://www.peplink.com/products/max-br1-pro-5g/

For an antenna the Mobility 42G antenna:

https://www.peplink.com/products/mobility-antenna-series/

Both are pricey and as usual I am having a hard time finding enough documentation about them to completely wrap my head around how well they will work for me. I will continue doing searches and reading, I have plenty of time :(

Rick
 
Two Truths said:
If you go with Garmin, I believe their 17" chartplotter display fits on the H38E dash. (I saw one on a 2017 H38E that was for sale a year ago.) Expensive, but it makes good use of the available space on the dash.
Click to expand...

I love the look of the GPSMAP® 8617 MFD but I understand it needs several other components in order to match the functionality of the 8616.

I guess I need to look it up and read about it.

Rick
 
Nancy and Rick said:
Interested in what you decide here too! I have been looking at the Pepwave MAX BR1 Pro 5g router:

https://www.peplink.com/products/max-br1-pro-5g/

For an antenna the Mobility 42G antenna:

https://www.peplink.com/products/mobility-antenna-series/

Both are pricey and as usual I am having a hard time finding enough documentation about them to completely wrap my head around how well they will work for me. I will continue doing searches and reading, I have plenty of time :(

Rick
Click to expand...

Rick, Is the 5g compatible with 4g? The concern is reception outside of the main population centers. A hard call to make for sure.
 
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! There is certainly much to be thankful for.
 
Helmsman said:
Rick, Is the 5g compatible with 4g? The concern is reception outside of the main population centers. A hard call to make for sure.
Click to expand...


Yes, any of the current 5G equipment also works on current 4G LTE networks.
 
Nancy and Rick said:
Interested in what you decide here too! I have been looking at the Pepwave MAX BR1 Pro 5g router:

https://www.peplink.com/products/max-br1-pro-5g/

For an antenna the Mobility 42G antenna:

https://www.peplink.com/products/mobility-antenna-series/

Both are pricey and as usual I am having a hard time finding enough documentation about them to completely wrap my head around how well they will work for me. I will continue doing searches and reading, I have plenty of time :(

Rick
Click to expand...

https://support.mobilemusthave.com/...cles/67000598016-pepwave-5g-should-i-upgrade-

This article is a little dated but also has been added to. It does a pretty good job of describing the BR1 5G. The more I look at these modem/routers, the more I think it would be wisest to wait until very close to delivery for them. The market is changing so rapidly, and what is marketed as 5G is not what was projected to be available due to the high frequency necessary to increase bandwidth and speed. So, what is being sold as 5G is really just improved 4G/LTE. In some cases, much improved.

The antenna you are looking at is the one I landed on a few months ago, but I don’t think I will put a hole in the boat for it. Again, the technology there is also changing. So, I may just set it up to be taken down at some point.

Another review.

https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/ne...ite-access-point-and-puma-421-7-in-1-antenna/
 
Last edited:
Nancy and Rick said:
Interested in what you decide here too! I have been looking at the Pepwave MAX BR1 Pro 5g router:

https://www.peplink.com/products/max-br1-pro-5g/

For an antenna the Mobility 42G antenna:

https://www.peplink.com/products/mobility-antenna-series/

Both are pricey and as usual I am having a hard time finding enough documentation about them to completely wrap my head around how well they will work for me. I will continue doing searches and reading, I have plenty of time :(

Rick
Click to expand...

I think those choices would be superb. And are the latest technology. Importantly it has channel 71 which is tmobiles latest longer distance cell phone channel. It supports Wi-Fi 6 for using in your cabin. And both 2.5 and 5 ghz for marina Wi-Fi (wifi as wan). And the internal architecture is faster than previous products in this series.

Antenna is good too. I prefer the peplink Maritime 40g stick antenna over the puck one.

You will want an access point for boat wifi too (wifi as lan).

Call Doug who provides peplink for maritime use (and buy through him to support him). Or just read his website.

https://www.milltechmarine.com/Peplink_bymfg_44-0-1.html

The only guesrion is whether to go with two cellular radios but that gets more expensive and the gear isn’t quite as updated yet. The two channel one that is as good as what you picked is the max mini and that’s $7,000! It’s more feature rich but with features you don’t need. And doesn’t have wifi6 just 5.

Waiting till close to delivery is great advice though (with the warning that product is hard to get sometimes). What you have identified though has all just been updated and released very recently.
 
Last edited:
bowball said:
I think those choices would be superb. And are the latest technology. Importantly it has channel 71 which is tmobiles latest longer distance cell phone channel. It supports Wi-Fi 6 for using in your cabin. And both 2.5 and 5 ghz for marina Wi-Fi (wifi as wan). And the internal architecture is faster than previous products in this series.

Antenna is good too. I prefer the peplink Maritime 40g stick antenna over the puck one.

You will want an access point for boat wifi too (wifi as lan).

Call Doug who provides peplink for maritime use (and buy through him to support him). Or just read his website.

https://www.milltechmarine.com/Peplink_bymfg_44-0-1.html

The only guesrion is whether to go with two cellular radios but that gets more expensive and the gear isn’t quite as updated yet. The two channel one that is as good as what you picked is the max mini and that’s $7,000! It’s more feature rich but with features you don’t need. And doesn’t have wifi6 just 5.

Waiting till close to delivery is great advice though (with the warning that product is hard to get sometimes). What you have identified though has all just been updated and released very recently.
Click to expand...

I think I may use Eero’s for the wireless access point, which I use at home. I will need to call them to ensure that I won’t have issues on the boat. Have to study that a little more.
 
Helmsman said:
I think I may use Eero’s for the wireless access point, which I use at home. I will need to call them to ensure that I won’t have issues on the boat. Have to study that a little more.
Click to expand...

Peplink has a “rugged” version. Nice to have manufacturer consistency to control all from one dashboard too. 12v as well.
 
bowball said:
Peplink has a “rugged” version. Nice to have manufacturer consistency to control all from one dashboard too. 12v as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have read about the rugged. But, I have two unused Eeros, so will give that the first shot. If I have problems with it, then I will look at the rugged. Retro’s support has been really good.
 
Last edited:
Helmsman said:
Thanks. I have read about the rugged. But, I have two unused Eeros, so will give that the first shot. If I have problems with it, then I will look at the rugged. Retro’s support has been really good.
Click to expand...

I have a few in my closet too when I switched to the new Wi-Fi 6 Orbi for the house - far faster speeds. But that really only matters when the internet connection is fast.

The one major point to me then is the ap rugged is 12 volt which should be more energy efficient and I don’t want to have to convert when I’m running just off the batteries.

But it’s no problem to switch at a later point if you ever chose to.
 
Last edited:
bowball said:
I have a few in my closet too when I switched to the new Wi-Fi 6 Orbi for the house - far faster speeds. But that really only matters when the internet connection is fast.

The one major point to me then is the ap rugged is 12 volt which should be more energy efficient and I don’t want to have to convert when I’m running just off the batteries.

But it’s no problem to switch at a later point if you ever chose to.
Click to expand...

Interesting on the speed. I have a 1 gig connection and get 700mhz through my eeros if I remember right. Pretty sure I called them to tweak it.

The 110 volt connection is a pain, but will be good to start with and make sure everything is doing what I want it to.
 
That sounds like a good plan. Both your fiber and your boat! And those devices are easy to install and place.

I have a consumer $60 / month fiber plan.

Went from 250mbs with my eero to the following with the new wifi 6 Orbi, but those units are much bigger those I prefer their mesh networks. A BB d m m y b by reworking expert friend also had to work some magic on it.

I’m just really excited by my speed for the dollar though ,to be honest, any speed for me over like 100mbs is superfluous.
 

Attachments

  • 141A863A-0802-44A0-908F-488440DA9C31.jpg
    141A863A-0802-44A0-908F-488440DA9C31.jpg
    46.2 KB · Views: 23
Last edited:
bowball said:
That sounds like a good plan. Both your fiber and your boat! And those devices are easy to install and place.

I have a consumer $60 / month fiber plan.

Went from 250mbs with my eero to the following with the new wifi 6 Orbi, but those units are much bigger those I prefer their mesh networks. A BB d m m y b by reworking expert friend also had to work some magic on it.

I’m just really excited by my speed for the dollar though ,to be honest, any speed for me over like 100mbs is superfluous.
Click to expand...

Would be nice to get that speed on boats for a reasonable price.
 
One of the areas of research for the folks under way with a build, is to consider how long the electronics we install will stay “current”. The technology is changing fast, and in some sense follows the same path as both PC’s and home automation. Since attending NMEA classes in September, I have been thinking about the changes on the way, particularly with OneNet, which will use a much bigger “pipe” for information movement.

The changes will be led by the cruiser market, I think. The commercial market will move more slowly. In fact, the commercial market is still dominated by 0183 instruments.

I am attaching an article where some of the marine electronics industry discuss what they think will happen over the next five years. Nothing earth shaking, but I think it is worth the read.

https://www.yachtingmagazine.com/story/electronics/tomorrows-marine-elex-technology/
 
Little late to the game, but I do like the Helmsman liine of trawlers. It would be a serious consideration if I was looking to buy new which I may in the next few years. Curious as to what a reasonable final price would be with decent electronics, generator, or whatever else is commonly added. Also, some thoughts on the 37 vs the 38E. Some differences are obvious but what comparisons have you done and what drove your final decision?
 
We looked at several tugs and the Helmsman trawler line. When we started looking, we ran headlong into the pandemic market of 2021, lots of buyers and few used boats. Because of an injury my wife sustained in an auto accident three years ago, accessibility was a major concern. Wide side decks and no steep ladders were essential as she has only her left hand to grab rails.

The Helmsman 38E looked ideal for our needs. Finding a used one was another matter. We decided that having a 38E built would get us back on the water sooner than waiting for a boat to drop in our lap and then having survey issues to deal with.

Scott Helker had a 38E on the dock in Seattle getting maintenance that he invited us to look at, although it was not for sale. Once aboard, the boat did all the selling. The fit and finish are superb. Saying that getting similar quality in a domestically built boat would cost substantially more is not an exaggeration. The available options and Scott’s willingness to customize parts of the boat make it an even greater value. The base price is shown in the specifications on the Helmsman website. Because the base price increased right after our purchase, we got the options we wanted (generator, solar panels, hydronic heating, pipe davit, added batteries, Bimini top and a few others) for not much more than today’s base price. The electronics package from C and L Marine Electronics will cost about $35K.

Scott took over the Mariner line and has made significant improvements to the original models. In some Mariner 37s, the guest / day head is just a “utility room”, i.e. storage.

I would suggest talking with Scott. He’s a class act and very willing to share his knowledge.
 
backinblue said:
Little late to the game, but I do like the Helmsman liine of trawlers. It would be a serious consideration if I was looking to buy new which I may in the next few years. Curious as to what a reasonable final price would be with decent electronics, generator, or whatever else is commonly added. Also, some thoughts on the 37 vs the 38E. Some differences are obvious but what comparisons have you done and what drove your final decision?
Click to expand...

The 38E is currently listed at $534k on the Helmsman website.

https://www.helmsmantrawlers.com/

If you look there, you can see the equipment that comes standard. The boat comes well outfitted, sans electronics, and domestic supplies such as bedding, cookware, etc. There is an electronics guy who has outfitted several of the boats delivered to the Seattle area. The standard 38E is set up for cooler climes, with heat but with no generator nor HVAC’s. If you live on the East or gulf coast, consideration would need to be given towards having those added. Electronics pricing is tricky and can run from very little to upwards of $30k depending upon what you are looking for. Davits can also run from $250 (netting) to well over $10,000 (lift) depending on what you want.

The 37 is a “Europa” designed trawler. It has full walk around, and comes with one or two bedrooms. The 38E has one bedroom, and two bathrooms. It is not a full walk around. I would suggest that the difference between the two will end up as a personal preference decision. The two bedroom 37 is a little less expensive than the 38, and I believe I am right in saying that the one bedroom 37 is cheaper still.

The salon settee can be converted to a queen bed and the pilot house settee can also be converted for sleeping as an option on the 38 and perhaps the 37.

We went with the 38 because we like the lines of the boat better than the 37. Others like the lines of the 37 better than the 38. I believe both boats have the same hull.

Both boats are of excellent quality. I was pleasantly surprised when I went on board a 37, a 38, and a 43. They are stable, well thought out boats. Current owners I talked to are very happy with their boats.

A call to Scott Helker at Helmsman could provide you the latest information on both the 37 and the 38E.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the feedback guys. I tend to be leaning toward liking having the full walk-around sidedeck of the 37, but I guess I would wnat to see both boats to make an educated decision. I will call Scott if we get to a point where we are more serious than just looking. A visit to Seattle is easy enough if there would be models there we could get aboard.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Helmsman 38E Build Hull 61
Replies
15
Views
941
amxr39
A
C
Worth the wait!
Replies
9
Views
2K
Helmsman
H
C
Looking for Helmsman 38E
Replies
0
Views
207
CaptKevin
C
Hydraulicjump
Helmsman Trawlers in the Wild
2 3 4
Replies
111
Views
14K
FWT
F
C
Fly bridge enclosure
Replies
4
Views
366
lwarden
lwarden

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom