Is She A Project Boat and What To Do?

Looking for advice on options for our beloved Ocean Alexander (OA) 42 Sedan. (Yes I know that’s not technically a trawler.) Built is 1986, we’re the third owners and she has served our purposes well since we bought her in 2014. Our original intent for this vessel was to enjoy day trips and weekends on the hook to determine if we really wanted to take on the boaters lifestyle once retired; but in the meantime, to provide a floating office for my husband when he regularly visited his company’s home office in Alameda CA. Seven years later, the answer to the boating lifestyle question is a resounding, Yes! But Alas…

Spending more time on maintenance than boating because of work schedules has been frustrating and yesterday’s confirmation that we now have a fuel leak in addition to other significant issues may be the last straw.

Many of you are familiar with the 42 Sedan, if only in name. We bought an OA in large part because of the OA reputation for a seaworthy quality build and that reputation, in our opinion, is we’ll deserved. It has twin Cummins diesels that have been maintained by a very highly reputed mechanic in our area. In addition to the latest issue though, the generator is not functioning and we’re told it needs to be replaced. A recent rain storm informed that a minor a leak is getting worse. (We’ve applied a temporary fix, but the windshields should be pulled and re-seated.) Instruments need updating (we’ve mostly relied on our iPads for navigation) and the teak on the aft deck is showing its age.

That’s not to say we haven’t taken care of her. New Sunbrella canvas and vinyl windows were installed on the fly bridge in 2018. The VacuFlush system was recently repaired with new vent line and hoses. She gets washed every week, waxed as needed and a diver keeps tabs on the bottom and zincs.

Long terms plans are to purchase a trawler, likely two years out, for possible Caribbean cruising but definitely Inside Passage, Puget Sound, and surrounding. Sadly, we really don’t want to invest any more in this one, but feel it’s time to put her in better hands and save what we can for the next vessel.

So, to the questions:

1: Do you agree this meets the definition of a project boat?

2: What are the best options for getting it sold? My queries to date indicate a broker will want us to make major repairs before listing. How best to get the word out?

3: Does anyone have experience with donating a vessel like this and, if so; who, where, how?

We’ve an awful lot of other things (and expenses) going on in our life right now and this fuel leak really put us over the top. Would love to find as simple and timely a solution as possible. Happy to provide additional details if it helps with our thought process. Thanks for reading to the end and for your input! Chris

Welcome aboard. Too bad about the fuel leak, have you determined that it is the fuel tank that is leaking? If so then that will be a major expense to fix. But, people will buy the boat in that condition if the price is right. Try Craigs list and put a for sale listing here on TF. A sign on the boat may do it. Good luck.

Thanks for the quick reply! Pretty certain it’s the tank. Our mechanic is going back today or tomorrow to confirm.

Good morning chauser,


Just finished a 9 month restoration of our boat. If we hadn't been retired and equipped for the project, it would not have been possible. That said this is my opinion on your situation:


**You have fallen out of love with your boat and it's time to move on.


1. This is definitely a project boat! You should not begin a project of this magnitude with the attitude you have. Kind of like trying to salvage a bad marriage.

2. The boat needs to be sold as is. Your choices are to find a broker that is interested in working with you or doing a sale by owner (as is, where is).
3. I think this should be the last resort unless you can financially afford to take the hit and really want to chew your foot off to get out of the trap immediately. There are several charities that will work with you but don't expect the IRS to work with you.


Good luck with whatever avenue you pursue.

Well said jagates10. Appreciate your thoughts. There’s definitely an emotional attachment there.

Question for the bigger-brain of TF: Sounds like the OP/Owner is an eyes-wide-open seller. What do you think of having an in-water survey done and fully disclosing the faults up-front versus doing the surprise-pinata reveal at survey? I realize it may scare-off some potential buyers, but it also reduces the haggle/hassle factor of survvey credits to a qualified buyer.

Still, being priced right is key. OP definitely doesn't want this boat to grow stale on the market.

Peter

mvweebles said:

Question for the bigger-brain of TF: Sounds like the OP/Owner is an eyes-wide-open seller. What do you think of having an in-water survey done and fully disclosing the faults up-front versus doing the surprise-pinata reveal at survey? I realize it may scare-off some potential buyers, but it also reduces the haggle/hassle factor of survvey credits to a qualified buyer.

Still, being priced right is key. OP definitely doesn't want this boat to grow stale on the market.

Peter

Click to expand...

Thanks Peter, that's a great question! Looking forward to others' thoughts on the in-water survey idea. I'm also wondering if an appraisal would be in order to help with pricing, though I think I can get a pretty good feel for that from that by talking with a local broker (or 2 or 3).

I am not sure it translates, but IME, when selling commercial real estate, it is always best to get reports covering all aspects of the property (physical, environmental, title, survey), with estimates for repairs (though probably better to have the repairs done in advance). There is no point on entering into a PSA (with a buyer's due diligence contingency), if the buyer doesn't know, in advance, what he is getting. I think the same logic applies to selling a boat.

chauser - you may want to get a survey anyway just to catalog the issues. When I left SF Bay a couple years ago, I needed a survey and had a very difficult time finding one. You may want to start asking around now. Could take a while. May also want to ask around for a broker - not all are experienced, not all will want a flawed boat. There are dozen different ways a deal falls apart, even for a sound boat. Going the extra mile to help with the sale might pay-off. But in all candor, I haven't sold many boats (though have been fairly close to many purchases).

Regardless - good luck.

Peter

Hi Chauser,

As you've asked for an opinion, here's mine. I'm a very experienced owner/operator of several significant powerboats, many of which have had fuel tank issues. Therefore, any vessel I'm interested in for purchase that has indications of bad fuel tankage is immediately dismissed as a non-starter. Their value to me is absolutely zero, even if the purchase price is zero. Other maintenance and appearance issues are negotiable. Bad tankage is not.

So...when faced with my OWN boat(s) with known fuel tank leaks, my only conclusion was to replace them ASAP, and then either move the boat to a new owner at a reasonable cost, or continue to use them as appropriate.

Again, IMHO, attempting to sell a substantial power boat such as an OA 42 with known bad tankage is, as expressed by others, an exercise in learning how to gnaw off your foot to escape an ankle trap. No matter if the bad tankage is revealed in a pre-purchase survey, or disclosed pre-sale in the advertisement, bad fuel tankage is likely to result in a poor sale result. Suggest you grit your teeth, fix (ideally replace) the tankage, and re-evaluate your sales strategy (and pricing) after this non-starter issue is resolved.

Regards,

Pete

MYTraveler and mvweebles - I think it does indeed translate... at least in my mind. I sell residential and rural real estate in Oregon. That's why I'm all about full disclosure and 'no' surprises.

Pete @ jungpeter - I very much appreciate your thoughts here. Still waiting on an update from our mechanic, but your point is valid. Though in the real estate world we like to say every buyer is different and everything sells eventually, so you never know.


And I certainly don't want to scare off any potential buyers, including here on TF. We're willing to be creative, sell at the 'right price' and work with a buyer to meet everyone's needs. We absolutely love this boat... just really stretched too thin right now and feeling we're putting good money after bad when this isn't our ultimate retirement vessel. Then again, tomorrow's another day. We'll see. Thanks again to all for the great input!

You can donate it me. Just kidding, kinda.

You can check the ebay listing for donated boats to see how it works. I predominantly see Boat Angel selling donated boats on ebay but there are others.
Local NPR stations used to beg for donations of cars and boats ect.

Good Luck!!

Well, there's a lot of "it depends".


Gut feeling your boat in "reasonable" shape would be worth somewhere in the $125 to $175 range... correct me if I'm wrong. This is not an old cheepy boat, it has a lot of value and someone will want it.



And in the above thinking, there's an argument to fix/replace the fuel tank. I'd probably not fix the windows, but indicate that you've done a temporary fix. I'd not do the gauges (and by gauges, sounds like you mean radio electronics.. plotter, VHF, etc?).



I could argue to spend a bit on cosmetics and make sure it's looking as best as you can get it. First impressions are very important.



I'd sell it indicating the current condition of the boat. I'd push the positives, good engines, comfy, clean looking.... whatever. Mention the items that you know are not working or functioning.



Get the fuel tank fixed ASAP, price it competitively and get it sold. It's still a sellers market and most likely will remain for at least several more months... but it WILL change. Always does, and you really want to get it on the market ASAP... and there's even an argument to pay a bit of a premium to expedite the tank fix.


Over the years, I've sold over 20 boats, planes and over 100 houses (mine, not brokerages), and have sold by owner and with an agent. I found a strong argument to make whatever I sell a cream puff if at all possible, and price it right. In a buyers market, the creampuffs sell while the junk won't. In a sellers market, everything sells... as long as it's priced right, but the cream still sells faster.



If I'm selling a pig (and yours is not), I price it low enough to get ride of it NOW. However, I've rarely had to do that. Did have one, and I sold it for what ever the buyer wanted to pay... even if it was nothing.
Gut feeling, you'll do fine.

"Your best loss is your first loss" - quote from the head of the brokerage I once worked.



It's the only thing he ever said that I could believe.

Chauser,
Insurance: tough to insure older boat with tank issue. Prospective buyers, insurers and moorage will want to see that fixed.

Right! Great reminder. Thanks.

Regarding the fuel leak, if it is indeed a tank leak you could investigate getting the tank lined. It's usually much, much less expensive than replacing tanks. The process gives you clean tanks, clean fuel and inspection ports which are all good selling points. New tanks are probably worth more to a buyer but lined tanks are better than leaky tanks. Here is a link that explains how it work, no affiliation or experience with them Fuel Tank Repair

If you could get the generator running for $500-1,000 it may be worth it. Not sure that I would invest in much else other than getting the boat neat, clean, shiny and smelling fresh.

Good luck!

Red Rascal - You must be looking over my shoulder. Good advice, I was just googling the liner solution when your note came in.

This is why I've been lurking on TF since 2015 - you guys rock!!!

chauser said:

Red Rascal - You must be looking over my shoulder. Good advice, I was just googling the liner solution when your note came in.

This is why I've been lurking on TF since 2015 - you guys rock!!!

Click to expand...

Challenge with tank liner is that tanks are baffled. Getting into the nooks and corners is difficult.

Peter

Seevee said:

Well, there's a lot of "it depends".


Gut feeling your boat in "reasonable" shape would be worth somewhere in the $125 to $175 range... correct me if I'm wrong. This is not an old cheepy boat, it has a lot of value and someone will want it.



And in the above thinking, there's an argument to fix/replace the fuel tank. I'd probably not fix the windows, but indicate that you've done a temporary fix. I'd not do the gauges (and by gauges, sounds like you mean radio electronics.. plotter, VHF, etc?).



I could argue to spend a bit on cosmetics and make sure it's looking as best as you can get it. First impressions are very important.



I'd sell it indicating the current condition of the boat. I'd push the positives, good engines, comfy, clean looking.... whatever. Mention the items that you know are not working or functioning.



Get the fuel tank fixed ASAP, price it competitively and get it sold. It's still a sellers market and most likely will remain for at least several more months... but it WILL change. Always does, and you really want to get it on the market ASAP... and there's even an argument to pay a bit of a premium to expedite the tank fix.


Over the years, I've sold over 20 boats, planes and over 100 houses (mine, not brokerages), and have sold by owner and with an agent. I found a strong argument to make whatever I sell a cream puff if at all possible, and price it right. In a buyers market, the creampuffs sell while the junk won't. In a sellers market, everything sells... as long as it's priced right, but the cream still sells faster.



If I'm selling a pig (and yours is not), I price it low enough to get ride of it NOW. However, I've rarely had to do that. Did have one, and I sold it for what ever the buyer wanted to pay... even if it was nothing.
Gut feeling, you'll do fine.

Click to expand...

Wow, that's a lot of houses, SeeVee! Appreciate the advice and encouragement. No, she's definitely not a pig!

As you can all tell, I've been pretty focused on this all day, but I do see it as an urgent problem. I'll be sure to keep everyone posted.

When considering options, it always helps to know what the options cost.

If you're giving to a charity organization, you need to know what the value of the boat is to write it off your taxes. This also assumes the two of you are in a high federal tax bracket. If the top bracket you pay in is 25%, you would only realize 25% of its value (and maybe less).

If I were going to replace the tanks, I would want to get an estimate. If you can remove and replace the tanks without pulling the engines, it might be worth doing to make it sellable. If it's cost prohibitive, it probably is to a buyer also.

Regarding the tanks, if you only replace one, everyone assumes the other is a ticking time bomb. Imo, sealing a leaking fuel tank is ok for your own use. If you have someone else do it for you, no guarantee of success and you will pay a fair amount....whether it works or not.

So, I would figure out the cost of the options and what you expect to get for it. If you're not going to keep it and can't do the work yourself, do nothing and list it here plus Craigslist or go the donation route.

Ted

Thank you, Ted. Sound advice indeed.

I understand OP is doing the research now even though the extent of the problems are unknown. You will take a big hit if you sell the boat as a project boat. The question is, are the repairs a bigger hit? First you need to find out what is really leaking and is there an inexpensive fix that will pass survey. That boat should have multiple tanks and I doubt both are leaking. If one of the tanks can not be repaired then you will need to look at the cost of replacing the tank. In most cases, replacing a fuel tank is cheaper then the financial hit of selling as a project. However, since I don't know the condition of the boat I can't say if the boat is worth spending money on or if it is already to far gone and needs to be liquidated.

I would not spend the money on a survey. You already know most of what is wrong and I would advise to disclose that up front rather than waste your time and that of potential buyers. Its not likely that a buyer would accept your survey any way.

Thanks Tiltrider1!

The tank leak could be a pinhole a few inches away from the inspection port or a leaking fitting. DON'T ASSUME. Get the leak evaluated by professionals and get some options for repair. There are weld repairs, internal sealant patches, external patches, partial tank replacements, full tank replacements, etc. Don't jump to end of the world scenarios until you have more facts.

New day, new attitude. Thanks High Wire and others who recommend getting a thorough evaluation on repairs. She really is solid in most ways and worthy of attention. We are confirming, but RedRascal provided a link to a repair service in Seattle and our mechanic mentioned ‘someone’ in Seattle as well, so we’ll see if this is the same guy and I’ll make the call. The reminder that marinas will want an insurable boat was also very useful.

And just so you all don’t think I’m scheming and conniving behind my husband’s back, he read through this entire thread last night with great appreciation to you all. Stay tuned.

It's the only thing he ever said that I could believe.


I'm still laughing...

It sounds like you will be spending a decent amount of time and money finding out about problems you would rather not fix on a boat you would rather not own. Why not just sell it? How much would you pay to make problems go away / to not have to deal with things you don't enjoy etc?

However...

You do want to keep boating. At least go through every section of the boat and think about what you have enjoyed the most and what you used or did not use the most. Get the most out of your personal experience as you can.

Ask your accountant about donating it. Fast and simple.

If the boat is perfect for you except for the needed repairs then the question is how to get the repairs done. But really, if you don't enjoy the repair process why bother learning more about repairs?

tank replacement or not

I don't agree with many of these posts. I think you need to get a quote from a company that can replace your tanks. It is an expensive job but usually cheaper than the loss you take when buying another boat. I think you will find that another boat in the 40ft+ size, that is less than 20 years old, will cost you at least $200k. You will lose 20% of that right off the bat. 10% sales tax and another 10% broker commission when you sell. I suspect that this $40k loss is substantially less than tank replacement. And of course these numbers don't include the 10% lost opportunity costs on $200k or the loan interest you might be paying.

Usually for any boat you buy, you will end up investing a considerable sum to customize it the way you wish. If you like the vessel you own and it is sufficiently large for your future plans I suggest you get all the quotes to make the repairs you wish and compare that to the 20% loss of purchasing another vessel with its own problems.

Regarding the generator: I can't imagine why you need to replace it. Most diesels that have problems can be repaired. I am also not sure why you even need a generator. I have cruised the past 29 years in Alaska and 14 years in Mexico without running a generator. I am not sympathetic to the folks who tell me they need a big refrigerator/freezer because they need cold beer. Gimme a break!!. If you cruise where you need air-conditioning at anchor, that is an entire different thing.

Richard P

chauser said:

...RedRascal provided a link to a repair service in Seattle and our mechanic mentioned ‘someone’ in Seattle as well, so we’ll see if this is the same guy and I’ll make the call.

Click to expand...

Here is another service that operates in the Northwest. https://www.petro-clean.com/

A fuel dock that services commercial boats in your area can probably put you in touch with a similar service.

Good luck!