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Osprey69

Osprey69

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Messages
432
Vessel Name
Rogue
Vessel Make
Gulfstar 49 MY
Suggestions?

Thanks in adbvance.
 
Another vote for the Vesper 8000, the Wi-Fi feature makes it easy to use an IPad with nav software for GPS signal.
 
I have the Vesper XB-8000 too, and I used to recommend it highly.

But be aware, it's essentially an orphaned product. The vendor has moved on to other things and hasn't done any development on it in years. Their support, which used to be top-notch, has been reportedly spotty lately. They used to follow and respond in all the boating forums, but no longer. Overall, although the hardware is great and I'll keep using mine as long as I can, I think I'd opt for something newer if I were buying today.
 
CaptTom said:
I have the Vesper XB-8000 too, and I used to recommend it highly.

But be aware, it's essentially an orphaned product. The vendor has moved on to other things and hasn't done any development on it in years. Their support, which used to be top-notch, has been reportedly spotty lately. They used to follow and respond in all the boating forums, but no longer. Overall, although the hardware is great and I'll keep using mine as long as I can, I think I'd opt for something newer if I were buying today.
Click to expand...
I found their support for the XB-8000 excellent when contacted directly.
 
CaptTom said:
I have the Vesper XB-8000 too, and I used to recommend it highly.

But be aware, it's essentially an orphaned product. The vendor has moved on to other things and hasn't done any development on it in years. Their support, which used to be top-notch, has been reportedly spotty lately. They used to follow and respond in all the boating forums, but no longer. Overall, although the hardware is great and I'll keep using mine as long as I can, I think I'd opt for something newer if I were buying today.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention this. I'm picking up a Vesper Cortex next week which will replace my 8000. I spent some time with Steve from Seabits checking out his installation and really really liked this new offering. I plan to sell my 8000 once I have the new system installed.
 
Matsutec ha102 for the win I reckon
About 1/3rd of the price of the vesper and does everything as advertised.

Also has a distress button on it which I don't think I have seen on others.
 
I saw this unit on Ali-Exspress for around $270. Do you know if that includes the GPS antenna as it was not clear to me? Thanks.
 
I think you need to consider what you want. If just AIS, then I think all the US certified units are good and work well. The Vesper (and others) include a whole bunch of other stuff that you may or may not find useful, like relaying nav data to wifi where it can be picked up by other devices.


Watch out for units that aren't FCC/USCG certified.
 
Airstream345 said:
Funny you mention this. I'm picking up a Vesper Cortex next week which will replace my 8000. I spent some time with Steve from Seabits checking out his installation and really really liked this new offering. I plan to sell my 8000 once I have the new system installed.
Click to expand...

PM sent.
 
Is it going inside completely out of the weather? IP52. Aren’t most marine electronics these days IPX6 or 7.
 
Njlarry said:
Great find. Thanks for posting it! Plan to add ais next season and want it to have its own dedicated display like that.
Click to expand...

Do you not have an MFD on the boat? I'd find the utility of AIS to be substantially less without the targets displayed on the primary navigation display. Just my opinion. Most modern MFDs allow overlaying AIS targets on chart or radar.
 
DDW said:
Do you not have an MFD on the boat? I'd find the utility of AIS to be substantially less without the targets displayed on the primary navigation display. Just my opinion. Most modern MFDs allow overlaying AIS targets on chart or radar.
Click to expand...

Same here. I have AIS targets show up on the little screen on my radio in addition to my MFD. I can look at the little radio screen, check the range setting, and figure whether the target is 1/2 mile away or 4 miles away, but having it on the MFD makes all the difference. The MFD will tell me if the vessel is in the next channel over, etc. And I can get radar overlay as a double check. A little black and white AIS screen, like on my radio, is all but useless.

The Vesper AIS has some bells and whistles to play with on your phone, tablet, or watch, if you're into that stuff.
This combination wins on safety and safey is what AIS is all about. And it's half the price. Actually less than that. The Ocean System MOB beacons sell for $300 each. I've seen the whole kit $910. That means the AIS transponder is $310 and connects to NMEA 2000.
 
I have an EM Trak Class B Model B900. Was plug and play. 1 wire to the Garmin and all targets are displayed on the screen. (NMEA0183) It came with an internal splitter. Both AIS and VHF work fine. No bells and whistles needed. Was most concerned with commercial traffics ability to see and contact me. Very happy with the simplicity of installation and operation.
 
Osprey69 said:
Thanks all, but this is what I wanted at the price point I wanted...at West Marine no less!

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/em-trak-marine-electronics--a100-ais-class-a-transceiver--12333944
Click to expand...


That's a great price for a Class A AIS, but keep a few things in mind.


First, it's a discontinued model (has been for a few years now) and the pricing is to flush inventory. But if it works, who cares...


More importantly, interfacing a Class A AIS is a lot more complicated than Class B. As noted, the interfaces are all NMEA 0183, not N2K. N2K is not approved for IMO boats, and that means that all the required interfacing on a Class A AIS are 0183.



Also unlike Class B which uses it's own GPS to derive ship's data, Class A MUST be interfaced to the ship's primary instruments which by definition are external to the AIS device. The AIS will alarm if this external data is ever missing. A Class A AIS uses its dedicated GPS strictly as a backup to the external instrument.


The required input data on the 0183 interfaces is very specific, and not always available in a recreational boat. In particular, heading has to be True Heading (HDT), not Magnetic. Aside from a satellite compass, very few rate compasses will product true heading. The only two I know of are the Maretron SSC200/300, and the Furuno PG700. But both will only produce HDT if you interface it to some external device that provides the compass with Variation so it can calculate HDT from it's native magnetic reading. Rate of turn (ROT) is also mandatory as an input to a Class A AIS, along with GPS info like COG and SOG. If any of this data is missing, the AIS will be in a constant state of alarm. Yes, you can silence it, but is that really how you want to operate your boat? And won't those constant alarms likely mask other alarms that you don't want to ignore.


So my advice is to read all the manuals very carefully and make sure you understand what devices produce and require what interface data, and be sure you know how you will make it all work. It can' be done, but it's not trivial.


Check out the other Em-Trak produces, especially the B900 series starting at $500. Much easier to interface, and available with wifi, bluetooth, or antenna splitter in various combinations. Em-Trak is SRT's house brand, and SRT makes pretty much all the AIS devices sold by the name-brand marine electronics vendors.
 
Twisted...came to the same conclusion after reading manual. Back to square one.

DDW - I have a dated, yet functioning, chart plotter that will not support AIS (really dated) that I intend to replace with an MFD, but will do so with more time and thought.

Time is not my friend here. Thinking we should be close enough to shore to use an app via cell signals to at least see boats. Very imperfect, but a plan C.

I am now looking into replacing chart plotter without pulling the flybridge apart. Its an old Garmin.

Thanks to all.
 
Osprey69 said:
Twisted...came to the same conclusion after reading manual. Back to square one.

DDW - I have a dated, yet functioning, chart plotter that will not support AIS (really dated) that I intend to replace with an MFD, but will do so with more time and thought.

Time is not my friend here. Thinking we should be close enough to shore to use an app via cell signals to at least see boats. Very imperfect, but a plan C.

I am now looking into replacing chart plotter without pulling the flybridge apart. Its an old Garmin.

Thanks to all.
Click to expand...


The online AIS apps like Marine Traffic should be used for entertainment only, and definitely not for navigation.


If you want to use an iPad or phone for something, us it to replace your old Garmin. Then get an AIS with wifi built-in and it will broadcast not only AIS data, but also your boat's other nav data for receipt by your iPad (or other) displaying charts and nav info. That's way, way more reliable and accurate vs MarineTraffic.


In a nut shell, and iPad is a reasonable replacement for an MFD, but it is a poor replacement for an AIS.
 
A caution and a suggestion.

The caution is using cell phone app for AIS has some serious limits. Beyond needing to be in cell range the data displayed may be unreliable. It can be delayed by minutes, dropped or missing. Too much of the data stream is dependent upon shore stations that may or may not be well maintained. This is in my opinion a concern when boating in areas heavily used by commercial traffic especially faster vessels. I do use cell phone app AIS in addition to a 'real' AIS transciever. I can have my plotter and radar on the scale I need for the navigation task at hand. I can use the app to 'see' further out. I can be aware of and anticipate traffic well before it shows up on plotter or radar. IF the traffic shows on the app.

The suggestion assumes you have a laptop, tablet or phone aboard. The phone is less than ideal due to screen size. Load OpenCPN on the device, add the free NOAA charts. Set up the data interface from GPS and AIS. To make it easy purchase an AIS transciever with WiFi. The Vesper XB-8000 is what I use. Yes, it is an orphaned product but a solid performer. Set OpenCPN's connection to the Vesper WiFi network and you're done. Both AIS and GPS feed to the device.

The cost is higher than the AIS you linked to above. However you now have a fully functional zero cost plotter as an interim solution while you research and decide on the MFD you want. And you have an AIS ready to interface with your MFD.
Osprey69 said:
Twisted...came to the same conclusion after reading manual. Back to square one.

DDW - I have a dated, yet functioning, chart plotter that will not support AIS (really dated) that I intend to replace with an MFD, but will do so with more time and thought.

Time is not my friend here. Thinking we should be close enough to shore to use an app via cell signals to at least see boats. Very imperfect, but a plan C.

I am now looking into replacing chart plotter without pulling the flybridge apart. Its an old Garmin.

Thanks to all.
Click to expand...
 
twistedtree said:
The online AIS apps like Marine Traffic should be used for entertainment only, and definitely not for navigation............
Click to expand...
AIS for navigation of a pleasure craft, how does that work?
Most people are daytime fair weather boaters when they can see other boats, which can see you if they are not glued to the instruments or on auto pilot while making coffee.

Paper charts and now chart plotters are aids to navigation. compass and depth sounder are aids to navigation. Your eyes are aids to navigation.

AIS and radar on a clear day are just a luxury. Another thread proved that most with radar were not confident they would know how to use it.
By all means if you want AIS, can afford one, get one.
 
As you say it's an aid. In my opinion a very valuable aid. AIS within its limitations can 'see' around the corner. Unlike radar which is line of sight only. The real value comes in when boating in areas where big fast vessels can come around the corner very close to you. Active Pass is a great example should you miss the security call on VHF 16 and 13.
Soo-Valley said:
AIS for navigation of a pleasure craft, how does that work?

Most people are daytime fair weather boaters when they can see other boats, which can see you if they are not glued to the instruments or on auto pilot while making coffee.



Paper charts and now chart plotters are aids to navigation. compass and depth sounder are aids to navigation. Your eyes are aids to navigation.



AIS and radar on a clear day are just a luxury. Another thread proved that most with radar were not confident they would know how to use it.

By all means if you want AIS, can afford one, get one.
Click to expand...
 
The copy of the USCG book I have is titled, “Navigation Rules and Regulations Handbook.” Within that are rules for avoiding collisions. AIS assists in avoiding collisions which is considered an element of navigation. Therefore AIS aids in navigation, just as Twisted Tree stated.

During broad daylight, I’ve used AIS to hail boats by name to inquire of their intentions or crossing arrangements. And, have been likewise hailed by other boats from a distance well before a name could be read from a transom, (especially difficult when the boat is coming at you.) Unlike some apparently, I find AIS and radar can useful even during broad daylight. I’ve also been known to look out the windows from time to time.
 
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