The difficult transition from real estate to liveaboard

friz said:

You must be, or should kidding

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kidding about what?

living aboard

I think its depend a lot of your personal situation. We live in Belgium -Europe
We (my wife and i) had worked together and lived in 3 city's in 2 country's in Europe. Always had a good home, We started late on boating with a 39f gallart
our latest home we purchaced was a appartment in the harbour all nice but het city concil had other plans and the sale could not be completed, luckely we did almost lose no money on this.

We started to stay on this boat for 2 years, we have a shared appartment where my grandmother lives. so we stay most onboard .
Im retiring next month and 2 years ago we where planning our future, the home market prizes had going up so fast so we decided to purchage a bigger boat then we have a nice living and just no financial problems. I have several banck accounts, so we have or savings, one for yearly cost of the boat (mooring fee, elektricity, water tax, small maintenance, and heating fuel) and a second account for running fuel cost it took a while to balance the saving to each account, but now we are better prepared and have less suprizes in cost. Whe purchaces a trader 54 (almost 60f) and lived on for 2 years (most of the year) it cost 1/3 of a 2 room appartment

Sometimes you have to make a dicision in live withs is not simpel

(sorry for the bad englisch)

Donna said:

I just sold or gave away everything. I had a boat, (many of you recall my adventures with southerly). She closed today. Before I sold her, I purchased a 55’ wide body Viking MY. I also had a 4000 sq. Foot house. Talk about a leap of faith. The dirt house closes on Thursday.

I’m writing this from my new home, Sunshine. I have been onboard for 2 weeks already getting to know her. I do most engine and general boat maintenance myself. I’m living on my hobby. I am an only child and my dad owns a beautiful home that is in a life estate so I have no worries for the future.

Of Course I worried that I wouldn’t like living onboard full time and maybe I won’t. But for now, it’s what I choose. I do not worry about tomorrow as there may not be one. I didn’t want to look back on my life and say, I wonder what it would have been like living aboard. I have no storage unit.

I still work, although a flex job. Some of you know what I do.

I have my coffee every morning with the dolphins, manatees, fish and birds before I start my day. I am so relaxed and the stress has melted away.

BTW, Southerly sold for way over what I purchased her for so take care of your boat and she will take care of you.

Good luck to all!

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That is refreshing to hear and matches many of our sentiments, except for the working part. My absolute favorite part of the day is early morning with a cup of good coffee on deck watching as the world comes alive. Every day where we are now, turtles, herons, kingfishers, cormorants, eagles, vultures and ospreys come around to say hi. Air is crisp, fog on the surface curls around the hull. Never gets old.

Living aboard

So we did the leap...life without adventure was no in our cards. Sold the primary residence...boat our livaboard with a condo slip and all the privileges of staying staying aboard and enjoying the condo “feel”. On the waterfront with killer views and cruising potential. Also we are just a few miles from our grandkids. That’s the summer camp. Our winter camp is a home in the desert where the hiking, biking, golf and other fun...getting our hands dirty plants and landscape...The price of living is much cheaper, housing, food and recreation. The admiral needs reboot time. It’s all individual according to your needs time cruising and getting dirty. That ratio will help you decide...good luck. So far it has worked for us but we do a 5 year plan at a time.

This is a good option

Porgy said:

When we decided to be full time cruisers we looked at it as not just a new chapter in our lives but, a whole new book. We got rid of everything except for a few keepsakes. We dove right in, no handwringing and haven’t regretted it. We sort of treat moving back to land as “we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.” In reality we have enough in assets to acquire a home later when/if we need to. Because we might want to buy a house someday doesn’t mean we have to invest in real estate. The idea of having some sense of security remaining anchored to land by retaining a home doesn’t register. For us, one bad rental tenant experience would sour us on the landlord thing, even with a management company overseeing the property.

The home of our waning years would be modest but, neither of us have any desire for anything large. A one bedroom condo would work, other than having to endure a resident who made a retirement career of playing Mayor of Condoville. But for now, and at this for over nine years and in our 60-70’s, we don’t stress about it.

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I agree with your thinking and we are doing the same. Age is relative and while there is no guarantee of long life, I think if you've had a good life from a health perspective being unsure of your future years can cause issues in letting go concerning land based worries. There are a lot of options once your cruising days are over...not just dirt. It's all about being comfortable with whatever makes that happen. We have or are in the process of selling all things not needed for cruising and we are not concerned about it. One advantage we have over first time larger boat cruisers is we've been on the water in larger boats for years. That experience gives us the confidence to stay out there way beyond our 70's. If I had a spouse that didn't want to live aboard I would work hard to develop a compromising plan if possible that worked for all parties. Good luck to all no matter your situation.

I think you are on the right track. I think there is definitely value in maintaining at least a thin tether to terra firma. I lived aboard for over two years while also having a home about a thousand miles away and am now back home. But not a day goes by I don't think about untying the lines and heading back out, albeit in the opposite direction. Living aboard is a great experience that you can't really appreciate until you've done it, both good and bad experiences. I wish you luck, fair winds and following seas.

9 years ago had a boat built for us. It was finished 8 years ago. We sold our house and gave to charity most of our possessions. However, between ourselves deceased parents and sister had a host of valuables. Held an auction which generated cruising kitty but still had museum quality pieces we didn’t want to part with so climate controlled storage. While this was going on bought a knockdown inside a park with waterfront on a stocked trout pond. Struggled with permitting for a year. Finally while we were off cruising it was knocked down and had a zero footprint house built. Then new house was totally self sufficient and actually generated a small income. House was monitored and we could change any setting via the internet. It sat empty during our travels except for a rare visit by my kids to enjoy a weekend. However, it was a home to come home to for holidays, births or other important family and when necessary business reasons.
Houses only get more expensive. Great places to live only get harder to find. There are times you just need a break from the boat. Stuff happens. We were able to take the second to last flight out of St. Lucia and just leave the boat. Possible without difficulties as we had a house to come home to. Having a house and a boat gives you great freedom. We left friends scatttered through early Caribbean stuck there for the duration due to Covid. Couldn’t leave a major asset and having no easy alternative place to live. Couldn’t sale home as no crew and no good way to prep for voyaging. Due to inter island travel restrictions stuck on their boats in virtual incarceration.
There’s so many ways having a dirt dwelling as a fallback improves quality of life. Simple things like dealing with governmental agencies, mail (st brendons is excellent) and legal stuff.
If you can keep a house. If you can don’t rent it or lease it. Even a in-law is a good fallback. But although the boat was our home to the rest of the world we would have been homeless without our house.
PS-running rentals is a PIA and if you are an active cruiser you’ll probably need a management company. Risk /benefit, income/hassle, on so many ways just a ball and chain. Sold off all the business properties, turned control of investments over to a excellent financial advisor. Didn’t think about money or other encumbrances spf our pre cruising life. Another important freedom and stress reducing move. Sure we were in frequent contact with our advisor but the tenure of life was different.

The only times we need a break from the boat are when it gets hauled for bottom paint. Then we stay in a hotel for a couple nights. The dog likes jumping on the bed and thinks it’s a grand adventure.

Recently, something unexpected came up and we will be spending this winter in the northeast rather than heading south. It does violate one of our two rules for being full time cruisers: No winter coats. I offered to put the boat to bed and get a furnished apartment for the winter but my wife said she’d rather remain on the boat. Even with the living adjustments that entails, moving to land even temporarily doesn’t interest her.

tiltrider1 said:

I would never sell my dirt to fund my boating existence. I have no problem converting a primary residence into an apartment building or a REIT. At least this would give me options in the future.

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RIGHT ON Tiltrider!!!

Houses are hard to come by. And no docking fees to contend with while living in it. But to each his own, I prefer our boat to be a summer camp on the water.

I have lived on my boat for 25 years. In that time I have seen hundreds of liveaboards. Only one never returned to dirt. I have not yet met a liveaboard who went straight from their boat to a retirement center all but one went either back to a house or condo. Some went back as owners, some went back as renters. Those who had a plan from the beginning generally returned as owners. Those who had no plan or sold a house to fund their boating experience generally returned as renters. The one who never returned. You guessed it, he passed in his sleep. We all would like to think we are going to be that guy but he was less than one in a hundred.

tiltrider1 said:

I have lived on my boat for 25 years. In that time I have seen hundreds of liveaboards. Only one never returned to dirt. I have not yet met a liveaboard who went straight from their boat to a retirement center all but one went either back to a house or condo. Some went back as owners, some went back as renters. Those who had a plan from the beginning generally returned as owners. Those who had no plan or sold a house to fund their boating experience generally returned as renters. The one who never returned. You guessed it, he passed in his sleep. We all would like to think we are going to be that guy but he was less than one in a hundred.

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Excellent points, however, I'd bet that most of us are not full time livaboards. For whatever reasons we like our dirt. For me, I'll never be a full time livaboard and sell all to do that. My retirement income is from real estate and it's been excellent.... not ever giving it up. However, getting out for a 2 day trip to a 8 month loop works fine.


There's one issue that could catch a livaboard with their pants down. If they're surviving on a limited budget and used the proceeds of their dirt home to fund their boating, they might not every be able to get back to "reasonable" dirt.



So, there's an argument to stash some dollars in something that will keep up with inflation if you venture out to the open seas for several years and wish to return.



I could argue that the best strategy is to own your single family home and rent it out. Put up with property management but try to get a good one. Even with the issues and hassles (which the manager should deal with), you'll still come out ahead... or at least keep up with inflation, which the boat won't. DON'T do condos, apartments, and absolutely NO REITs. Historically they all suck. Get a good house! Or better yet, get several.

tiltrider1 said:

I have lived on my boat for 25 years. In that time I have seen hundreds of liveaboards. Only one never returned to dirt. I have not yet met a liveaboard who went straight from their boat to a retirement center all but one went either back to a house or condo. Some went back as owners, some went back as renters. Those who had a plan from the beginning generally returned as owners. Those who had no plan or sold a house to fund their boating experience generally returned as renters. The one who never returned. You guessed it, he passed in his sleep. We all would like to think we are going to be that guy but he was less than one in a hundred.

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This is an interesting thought, and a good post!

Boats are difficult for mobility or balance impaired people, but thinking about it, so is my home in Alaska.

I have two sets of four steps each to access my home in Alaska that are unavoidably icy for six months out of the year. Plus a walk of over a hundred feet over icy ground to reach the garage.

I guess the point of this is that how our residence is set up, either a boat or on land can make a huge difference in it's livability once we reach a point of having mobility issues.

Just plain wanting to vs being physically forced to leave liveaboard life is another issue altogether. My opinion is that everything gets "old" after a while. Living in a specific spot in a dirt house gets old. I am sure living on a boat will get old as well.

In my case I am going cruising with no "home base". That lifestyle seems intriguing right now but at some point I recognize that being on the move semi constantly might too get old.

The big lesson to learn from this thread is to if possible, have an exit plan from liveaboard live so that you are not trapped by the decisions you make for the rest of your life.

When we built our most recent house no compromises were:
Self sufficient-could be left for months or even years. This is now possible with geo/solar/backup generator and remote monitoring. The monitoring automatically calls fire, police, flooding, plumbing, electrician etc. it also calls us on cell, email and satphone.
Self sufficient finances- between power of attorney to family, financial advisor, selling off all properties, closing business etc.. we can call in when we want to review our financials. Similarly taxes on autopilot.
Given what I did for a living never want to end up in assisted living, SNIF, or nursing home. So first floor is set up that we never need to go to another floor. That floor has easy access shower, water closet and all doors are over sized to allow stretchers let alone wheelchairs. Kitchen the same. Finances set up to allow home healthcare if necessary. The kids and grandkids can climb stairs to their living areas.
So we planned ahead. Wanted to sail until I couldn’t. That failed when wife’s balance was left just enough off she was unsafe in a seaway after a ankle fracture. Now doing power. But there’s a lot of steps. Both inside and to the flybridge. We’ll do this until we can’t. Then a center console until we can’t. Then dirt in my face. Just want to be on the water.

Lepke said:

Why would you want to return to shore?

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We didn't think we would but we are building a dirt house and selling the boat. EVERY situation is different resulting in different choices, none wrong, just different. We will undoubtedly miss the boat but we will enjoy our plan for the future just as much but in a different way.

Seevee said:

There's an argument to keep a dirt home or two, just to keep up with inflation, unless you have a huge bankroll and other investment that will keep up.


The boat will most likely depreciate. So if you want to return to a dirt home... keep one.



Now, to keep one you most likely need to rent it to cover the costs and you need expertise to do that, which can be a challenge.

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We are selling our boat. In this very warm market, it worth far more than what we paid for it, albeit, with a boatload of expensive improvements. We may even break even but I won't even bother adding it all up to be certain. Who cares? It's boating.

Landshark said:

With regard to financial considerations a boat is not like a house when it is time to sell. Fundamentally the boat will decrease in value while terrestrial real estate will increase in value. Point is that when you do move to land based living you'll have diminished financial resources to spend unless you have other traditional investments that grew in value.

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With respect, your assumptions are inaccurate at best. We are selling our boat and building a dirt house. In this market we will ilkely come close to recouping our original purchase price including lots of improvments. That aside, even if we only got what we paid paid for it, EASILY done, the proceeds will be cash-in-hand. Please explain how that amonts to DIMINISHED financial resources. What you asserted makes no sense.

Sleepy said:

I learned two things when my wife and I sold EVERYTHING and moved onto our live aboard. 1. Not having a home base we could go back to was more difficult than we thought. Not that we wanted to alot but not having the option was a heavy anchor. 2. When we did decide to buy another home we found out how difficult it is to get a mortgage after retirement. Need steady income source regardless of how much cash you have in the bank.
A lot of the people we met along the way did the live aboard for part of the year then returned home to recharge.

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Difficult for retirees to get a mortagage? Not really. It's no different for retirees than it is for younger folks. Qualification is based on current income. Age has no affect. Limited current income translates to lower loan amounts. My wife and I are 73 and 71 respectively. We are building a dirt home. We qualified for a mortgage easily. We are financing 95% even though we can afford to pay cash. Why pay cash when a fixed mortgage can be had for 3%? We are leaving our cash invested in a 401K. Even some conservative dividend stocks pay way more than 3%.

catalinajack said:

Difficult for retirees to get a mortagage? Not really. It's no different for retirees than it is for younger folks. Qualification is based on current income. Age has no affect. Limited current income translates to lower loan amounts. My wife and I are 73 and 71 respectively. We are building a dirt home. We qualified for a mortgage easily. We are financing 95% even though we can afford to pay cash. Why pay cash when a fixed mortgage can be had for 3%? We are leaving our cash invested in a 401K. Even some conservative dividend stocks pay way more than 3%.

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In the USA some retirees have little or no "income". If you haven't started social security, don't have a pension, and are paying expenses as needed from non-taxable savings withdrawals then you have no income from a mortgage lender perspective.

Workarounds include filing for, then suspending, social security and/or creating scheduled withdrawals from a retirement account. I understand you only need to show a couple months of regular "income" and you are free to do as you wish after the mortgage is funded.

murofrelwart said:

In the USA some retirees have little or no "income". If you haven't started social security, don't have a pension, and are paying expenses as needed from non-taxable savings withdrawals then you have no income from a mortgage lender perspective.

Workarounds include filing for, then suspending, social security and/or creating scheduled withdrawals from a retirement account. I understand you only need to show a couple months of regular "income" and you are free to do as you wish after the mortgage is funded.

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Yes, some do, some don't. The point I made was that anyone, young or old can get a mortgage with sufficient current income. I was responding to a poster who asserted that retirees cannot.

Seevee said:

Excellent points, however, I'd bet that most of us are not full time livaboards. For whatever reasons we like our dirt. For me, I'll never be a full time livaboard and sell all to do that. My retirement income is from real estate and it's been excellent.... not ever giving it up. However, getting out for a 2 day trip to a 8 month loop works fine.


There's one issue that could catch a livaboard with their pants down. If they're surviving on a limited budget and used the proceeds of their dirt home to fund their boating, they might not every be able to get back to "reasonable" dirt.



So, there's an argument to stash some dollars in something that will keep up with inflation if you venture out to the open seas for several years and wish to return.



I could argue that the best strategy is to own your single family home and rent it out. Put up with property management but try to get a good one. Even with the issues and hassles (which the manager should deal with), you'll still come out ahead... or at least keep up with inflation, which the boat won't. DON'T do condos, apartments, and absolutely NO REITs. Historically they all suck. Get a good house! Or better yet, get several.

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Closed on my house today, to have the cash on hand to buy my future liveaboard. I've been wanting and dreaming and planning for this for the last 4 or 5 years. The goal was always to sell the house that I want to never live in again, under any circumstance, just due to location, etc..Back when this dream started, selling the house would only have broken even, and I bought an old sailboat to work on and get set up to live on. With this real estate market, I made a hefty profit, I will allow half of it to buy me the boat I want, about 9 grand is going to put a new roof on the house my mother owns that I will inherit, Nice little place in a waterfront town, I have storage and a little shed already on the property for storing my motorcycle, etc.. leaving at least 10k as just a cushion for unexpected expenses, and investing the rest in things as a hedge against inflation and possible dollar collapse.

That's a long winded way of agreeing with you, keeping a thin link to land, and agreeing that owning a boat is a depreciating asset for the most part. It's one thing i've been preaching to my broker about. I don't want some off the wall boat, I want the Harley Davidson of boats, or Caterpillar, etc..They cost more up front, but they hold value longer. Just my 2 cents. I hope my plan is solid. if it's not, so be it. Tomorrow isn't promised, I live for today as much as possible.

As others have pointed out real estate is, generally, an appreciating asset while boats are not. I suppose if you have a massive equities portfolio then you might consider cutting the ties to land and deal with future needs in the future. However I think real estate is too important of asset class NOT to hold over the long term. You just have to be careful to own real estate in a place that doesn't expose you to too much risk or expense.

murofrelwart said:

In the USA some retirees have little or no "income". .

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It is far more than ''some,'' it is many who are in a ''no income'' situation or at best a minimum income. This forces a major change in lifestyle.

Simi 60 said:

Been out here over 5 years now

Still haven't managed to get back to do something with the dirt house, car, motorbike or other big project boat.
Bought this boat, moved on and ran away.

Bad us.

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HA! The Peter Pan principle kicked in big time, didn't it?

Slowmo said:

As others have pointed out real estate is, generally, an appreciating asset while boats are not. I suppose if you have a massive equities portfolio then you might consider cutting the ties to land and deal with future needs in the future. However I think real estate is too important of asset class NOT to hold over the long term. You just have to be careful to own real estate in a place that doesn't expose you to too much risk or expense.

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I suppose that if you are smart enough to have a massive equities portfolio that you are also too money savvy to let the real estate ride to success leave you at the bus stop.

The big takeaway from this thread is to if at all possible leave yourself options.

Mot all have that luxury, and that is understandable, but if one can, they should plan for life after cruising.

foggysail said:

It is far more than ''some,'' it is many who are in a ''no income'' situation or at best a minimum income. This forces a major change in lifestyle.

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This is true. It reminds me of a study done in Stanford in 1972 which is referred to as the Power of Delayed Gratification. If you are unable to see the value of Delayed Gratification then you are doomed to suffer the consequences. A better name for this study would have been the Power of Maximizing Your Options.

In the study the kids were told they could eat the marshmallow at any time but if they waited 15 minutes they would get a second marshmallow . Some kids ate it instantly, some kids waited 5 minutes, the minority waited the full 15 minutes. What the study missed was how many of those kids not only waited the 15 minutes but then found a way to turn the 2 marshmallows in to 4.

Just the other day I saw a news item which stated a depressingly small percentage of baby boomers had any savings at all! I would have guessed the reverse.

ksanders said:

The big takeaway from this thread is to if at all possible leave yourself options.



Mot all have that luxury, and that is understandable, but if one can, they should plan for life after cruising.

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My wife and I are building a dirt house after living aboard full time for six years. We sold our dirt house to live aboard and cruise which we have, extensively. Our plan had been to keep the boat but we have decided to sell her even though we have the means to have both without having to tap into our cash reserves. However, we have decided to sell the boat after we get settled into the new place. Considering the out-of-pocket cost to keep the boat and the opportunity cost of keeping a pile of cash tied up in a non-appreciating asset, I figure it amounts to about $30,000/year. Instead, we are going to use that freed-up money to travel the world extensively. We'll miss the boat terribly but it's on to new adventures for us. Boat, house, and travel would be a stretch so the boat goes.

catalinajack said:

My wife and I are building a dirt house after living aboard full time for six years. We sold our dirt house to live aboard and cruise which we have, extensively. Our plan had been to keep the boat but we have decided to sell her even though we have the means to have both without having to tap into our cash reserves. However, we have decided to sell the boat after we get settled into the new place. Considering the out-of-pocket cost to keep the boat and the opportunity cost of keeping a pile of cash tied up in a non-appreciating asset, I figure it amounts to about $30,000/year. Instead, we are going to use that freed-up money to travel the world extensively. We'll miss the boat terribly but it's on to new adventures for us. Boat, house, and travel would be a stretch so the boat goes.

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Wifey B: We have great friends who live on the water and love boating and both have spent their careers in boating, but as they retire fairly young, they'll cruise some with us and some with his parents but they also want to fly and see the world when it's again practical.

Ironically, they've traveled the world but not seen much of it in the depth they'd like to. This summer they got 3 days in Paris with us, but they want 2 weeks. They want a month sometime in Australia and New Zealand.

I think it's so important that people do as you've done and regularly reassess their plans. Some act like changing plans is somehow admitting defeat, but it's really exhibiting wisdom.

BandB said:

Wifey B: We have great friends who live on the water and love boating and both have spent their careers in boating, but as they retire fairly young, they'll cruise some with us and some with his parents but they also want to fly and see the world when it's again practical.



Ironically, they've traveled the world but not seen much of it in the depth they'd like to. This summer they got 3 days in Paris with us, but they want 2 weeks. They want a month sometime in Australia and New Zealand.



I think it's so important that people do as you've done and regularly reassess their plans. Some act like changing plans is somehow admitting defeat, but it's really exhibiting wisdom.

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Thank you for those words of encouragement. Our travel plans are, indeed, to travel in-depth. Our only foreign travel has been a three-week trip to Italy seven years ago to attend a destination wedding of a niece, a three-day affair. Since we already had to pay for a flight and rent a car to get to the venue, we decided to extend our trip to three weeks. In addition to the wedding in Toscana at the Ferragamo estate, we visted Roma, Firenze, Venezia, and Sorrento. We drove everywhere from north to south, staying in small towns along the way. We did take a train from Firenze to Venezia.

Anyway, that trip has stuck with us all these years. Our plan is to visit Europe in four-five weeks blocks at least once but perhaps sometimes twice each year. When we are done with Europe we will move on to other parts of the world. But, a bit of boating remains in our future. We will be renting a canal boat for three weeks or so to cruise the canals of The Netherlands, France, and Germany. We may do the same in England.