390 - cable run access from flybridge

tiz · Oct 11, 2021

Recently purchased 2001 390. Have to replace upper shift cable. Got old one out with a drag line attached but can.not.get.new.one.back.in. No way. Drag line now seems stuck.

Can’t get lower helm side window out because some fool installed it with 5200.

Has anyone ever cut access holes in the flybridge liner to get access to run cables to the lower station? Any other strategies? Upper station is useless until I can get a shift cable installed.

—Kevin

Keysdisease · Oct 12, 2021

Hi Kevin,

I posted on the other site about the messenger line. I do not have a 390, but you should not need to remove a window to access the chase. I'm guessing the cable runs through the window munion between the side windows (like on the classic 34's) or the aft starboard bulkhead behind the electric panel. Those munions often have a removable panel over them.

How far along the chase did it get stuck? Any guess about where its stuck? Did you start top or bottom? Does it run along the starboard or port side? Can you determine where it turns down, at the munion or aft bulkhead? Could it run down the port side behind the fridge?

:socool:

tiz · Oct 12, 2021

The cable runs up between the fiberglass interior liner under the lower helm dash, vertical next to/inside the window forward of the helm door. There is no removable panel. It makes a sharp bend across the top of the window and then over toward the hole in the liner out of which it comes under the upper dash.

There is no interior removable panel along any of it. The cable is 18ft. I pulled it out to the upper helm and used it to pull in a drag line. Then tried to pull in the new cable down from the top. Got about 12-18” in and now can’t get it out or in. Drag line is stuck.

So I’ve bought a boroscope and some Star Board plastic panel and will cut at least one if not more holes in the flybridge liner to get at least visual access to see where the cable run goes and where the line is hung up.

Others have recommended heat and wood shim wedges to try and work the window out. That will give access to the hard turn at the top of the window. So I plan to start that process later today.

It’s a crap design, unfortunately.

DonW28 · Oct 12, 2021

Try some cable pull lube. Darn stuff works much better than I ever thought it would. I guess you could think of it as the non-sterile version of KY Jelly. Which would also probably work. Worth a try anyhow. Don

boomerang · Oct 12, 2021

I thought there was another wire chase down the side of the door next to the helm. I know the 2nd gen 34has that. The last 390 I rigged ,before I sold my business 4 years ago, I didn't have to pull anything to the lower station but also one of the upgrades was an AC unit on the bridge and the AC guy ran the water and electricity up to the bridge. I'm sure he didn't go up by the windshield.

Keysdisease · Oct 12, 2021

Rather than fabricate covers from starboard why not inspection plates ?

These are nice because you can use a 3" hole saw on a drill and stop as soon as you cut through the fiberglass, rather than take a chance on damaging wiring in the chase with a jig saw cutting a rectangular hole

:socool:

boomerang · Oct 12, 2021

I like to use an oscillating saw rather than a hole saw because it's so darn hard to not damage any wires if they're in the path of the hole cut. I've used a hole saw and it does make a nicer cut but you really have to take your time and be careful when cutting blindly.

tiz · Oct 12, 2021

Keysdisease said:
Rather than fabricate covers from starboard why not inspection plates ?

These are nice because you can use a 3" hole saw on a drill and stop as soon as you cut through the fiberglass, rather than take a chance on damaging wiring in the chase with a jig saw cutting a rectangular hole

The reason not to use a 3" deckplate is I cant get my hand/arm through it.

--Kevin

tiz · Oct 12, 2021

boomerang said:
I like to use an oscillating saw rather than a hole saw because it's so darn hard to not damage any wires if they're in the path of the hole cut. I've used a hole saw and it does make a nicer cut but you really have to take your time and be careful when cutting blindly.

Exactly. And I can make a rectangular hole big enough to work through, and a neat cover of StarBoard in any size I need.

Will know more after I get the boroscope on thursday. I have to see where the cables are routed before cutting.

--Kevin

Seevee · Oct 12, 2021

Could be some help...

On the 400, the cables went from the upper helm along the side and about mid stream by the seats there was a chase that went to the engine room. It was a bit of a PITA, especially for stuff that needed to be wired helm to helm. Had to go back up from the engine room to the lower helm.

Similar to my 430. So, I got tired of that poor design, cut a hole forward of the side door at the edge and again up thru the ceiling to the bridge so it's now easy. Simple trim covers it nicely.

Access to run cables and wires was not one of Mainships qualities.

tiz · Oct 12, 2021

Window out

3hrs of super patient heating and shimming with wood wedges from Home Depot. Heat, drive in putty knife, drive in wedge , move to next position 1.5” away, repeat.

Window is out. Cables seem to run inside a hose.

Still not sure what drag line is hung up on. Borescope on the way.

—Kevin

Gdavid · Oct 13, 2021

I would try using some tubing with some medium amount of flex to it to try and pull the cable through with. Something like nylon tubing, just big enough for the inner cable to fit into and about the same OD as the outer jacket of the cable, this would bridge the different between your chase line which is probably small in diameter and getting caught in pinch points.

tiz · Oct 13, 2021

It's a reasonable ide but a bit too late. The cable is in about 12-18" and stuck. Drag line won't move in either direction.

The cables seem to go up in the window chase in a hose about 1.25-1.5" diam. That must end somewhere just above the window and then it gets stuck under the floor under the dash upstairs.

I'll have the scope tomorrow and will have a look to see if I can free it or need to cut an access hole.

In the future I would use a cable core (wire) which I should have done this time. Or an electrician tape. Those generally don't get stuck like string does.

--Kevin

Keysdisease · Oct 13, 2021

I saved the core from my last control cable replacement for that very reason, its stainless, and flexible to bend but stiff in push-pull.

:socool:

tiz said:
In the future I would use a cable core (wire) which I should have done this time. Or an electrician tape. Those generally don't get stuck like string does.
-Kevin

Cartouche · Oct 14, 2021

tiz said:
The cable runs up between the fiberglass interior liner under the lower helm dash, vertical next to/inside the window forward of the helm door. There is no removable panel. It makes a sharp bend across the top of the window and then over toward the hole in the liner out of which it comes under the upper dash.

There is no interior removable panel along any of it. The cable is 18ft. I pulled it out to the upper helm and used it to pull in a drag line. Then tried to pull in the new cable down from the top. Got about 12-18” in and now can’t get it out or in. Drag line is stuck.

So I’ve bought a boroscope and some Star Board plastic panel and will cut at least one if not more holes in the flybridge liner to get at least visual access to see where the cable run goes and where the line is hung up.

Others have recommended heat and wood shim wedges to try and work the window out. That will give access to the hard turn at the top of the window. So I plan to start that process later today.

It’s a crap design, unfortunately.

on our 390 the shiifter cables come through a 2nd chase that is close to the window, and exits on the flybridge in forward of the starboard bench. Only items in the chase.

Cartouche · Oct 14, 2021

tiz said:
The cable runs up between the fiberglass interior liner under the lower helm dash, vertical next to/inside the window forward of the helm door. There is no removable panel. It makes a sharp bend across the top of the window and then over toward the hole in the liner out of which it comes under the upper dash.

There is no interior removable panel along any of it. The cable is 18ft. I pulled it out to the upper helm and used it to pull in a drag line. Then tried to pull in the new cable down from the top. Got about 12-18” in and now can’t get it out or in. Drag line is stuck.

So I’ve bought a boroscope and some Star Board plastic panel and will cut at least one if not more holes in the flybridge liner to get at least visual access to see where the cable run goes and where the line is hung up.

Others have recommended heat and wood shim wedges to try and work the window out. That will give access to the hard turn at the top of the window. So I plan to start that process later today.

It’s a crap design, unfortunately.

see picture attached cables separate from main chase

porman · Oct 14, 2021

OMG. That picture brings back bad memories of running a new depth sounder cable.

skipper724 · Oct 14, 2021

I have always used the old cable to pull the new one through. bolted them together. Also, if you have a NMEA 2000 network, you can attach the depth sounder to the lower helm drop line. No need to go up top!

Keysdisease · Oct 14, 2021

That works good for many straightforward runs, but there are about 5" at the end of each cable that are not flexible. In my experience having these old/new sections close together increase the chance of a hang

$0.20 :socool:

skipper724 said:
I have always used the old cable to pull the new one through. bolted them together. Also, if you have a NMEA 2000 network, you can attach the depth sounder to the lower helm drop line. No need to go up top!

tiz · Oct 15, 2021

agreed. But a core wire from a teleflex cable works well and doesnt hang up like line/string does. I should not have used string.

I don't have an exit hole over on starboard through the liner (yet) as shown in that picture. Could be a solution.

Got the borescope and will try it tomorrow.

--Kevin

Seevee · Oct 16, 2021

FWIW,

Anytime I add or remove a cable, I run two small cords (really strong stuff, like Dynema) for future pull stings. Works well.

Also, there's an argument to eliminate any unused cables.... occasionally a bitch but worth it if tight.

tiz · Oct 17, 2021

Ok so here’s the summary.

I cut an 8x8 square (1” hole saw at corners first) in the top of the area under the dash to starboard of where the wires normally go into the liner. It is impossible to see with the dash in place and will be sealed once I’m done installing new electronics, etc. 1” thick layup with core in that area.

With that access I could see that my string was wrapped hopelessly around several wires. They had run the shift/throttle cables up through the wire tubing in the chase next to the stbd helm window. Total tangle. Borescope was nearly useless due to lack of light.

So I was able to free the line and get the new cable out. Pulled out the string (don’t use string for this). Then inserted my hard wire ‘snake’ in above the window, toward the upper dash, outside the wire tube and it came right out in sight of my access hole. Easily connected the shift cable and pulled it out the window to stbd. Ran the snake down the chase into the dash area and pulled it up to the lower control. 15 min later all connected and working. I have the window in with no sealant but seams taped off until I cover the boat for the winter. We may add radar and nmea2000 wiring by spring then I’ll seal it with butyl tape.

I finally have F-N-R from the upper helm.

—Kevin

Capt Ray · Oct 18, 2021

tiz said:
Ok so here’s the summary.

I cut an 8x8 square (1” hole saw at corners first) in the top of the area under the dash to starboard of where the wires normally go into the liner. It is impossible to see with the dash in place and will be sealed once I’m done installing new electronics, etc. 1” thick layup with core in that area.

With that access I could see that my string was wrapped hopelessly around several wires. They had run the shift/throttle cables up through the wire tubing in the chase next to the stbd helm window. Total tangle. Borescope was nearly useless due to lack of light.

So I was able to free the line and get the new cable out. Pulled out the string (don’t use string for this). Then inserted my hard wire ‘snake’ in above the window, toward the upper dash, outside the wire tube and it came right out in sight of my access hole. Easily connected the shift cable and pulled it out the window to stbd. Ran the snake down the chase into the dash area and pulled it up to the lower control. 15 min later all connected and working. I have the window in with no sealant but seams taped off until I cover the boat for the winter. We may add radar and nmea2000 wiring by spring then I’ll seal it with butyl tape.

I finally have F-N-R from the upper helm.

—Kevin

Congratulations on the Good outcome.
I wish I could have offered some help or encouragement, but I only ran into trouble when running wires (twice) on our Mainship 390. I honestly could not imagine trying to run stiffer shift or throttle cables. Nicely Done Cap!!! Congratulations indeed.

tiz · Oct 19, 2021

Thanks Capt Ray. The string I used didn't help. Using a proper fish tape/solid wire as a drag line worked way better. Having the hole I cut will make it very easy going forward.

--Kevin

390 - cable run access from flybridge

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