Lost another one

In Vancouver Harbour a couple of days ago.

This 54' Monk woodie was, according to a friend's email, "on a sea trial, Operator noticed 3' of water in the main cabin, headed for the nearest beach".
Shaft seal let go?

Now the news is all about containing the "200l if fuel" I suspect more than 200 g in a boat that size.

Or a plank....seen a lot of wooden go down....even some "well maintained" ones.

Hope to hear the actual cause of this tragedy.

There's a 117' considerably old woodie recently arrived at our marina. Just looking at her I can tell she spells trouble. Evidently the guy who got her paid next to nothing. Three heavy duty pumps run way too often... I'd say they average 30% off to 70% on. They are seldom off but for a few minutes That equals hundreds [if not a thousand plus] of gallons water per hour. I've heard only one engine runs and they plan to try and take the boat to some other marina to get it on dry dock for repairs.

Having spent much time repairing big wooden boats in LI NY boat yards during 1960's and 70's I'd say by looking at this old baby - she's kaput!! I'll be surprised if she can even be brought up onto to dry dock without falling apart. Maybe by a full wood cradle on train tracks? But then - OMG what could need to be accomplished regarding rot in her keel, frame and planks. I've seen it all before - not a pretty story. And, after spending a fortune as well as unbelievable time/effort you still have a really old woodie with little chance to regain investments provided.

Wishing the guy luck!!

When it rains hard the lazerate hatch lets water in. (on the to do list). My bilge pump runs 15 seconds twice in 24 hours.
That 117 should be hauled immediately before a pump fails.

Soo-Valley said:

When it rains hard the lazerate hatch lets water in. (on the to do list). My bilge pump runs 15 seconds twice in 24 hours.
That 117 should be hauled immediately before a pump fails.

Click to expand...

Any chance it is not bilge water being pumped?

rgano said:

Any chance it is not bilge water being pumped?

Click to expand...

You may have misunderstood. The only leak I have is from the back deck hatches, evident with signs of water. This water drains to forward bilge pump and when the switch sees it turns pump on for 15 seconds. Why 15 sec, because it is all the time needed to evacuate the collected water and it is a bilge guard that is timed to prevent fuel and oil pumping.
Mid pump is tested but never runs

I've seen big leaks in commercial wood boats that usually turn out to be a couple blown out seams. The seams will open in heavy weather or when fasteners are going bad. Often it's not a big job to fix. But reseaming the whole bottom of a 100' boat would require a crew and several days and could cost above 50G. Doing the job by one's self could take months and the bottom would dry out, shrinking the planks, making an even greater job to get back in the water.
While I like wood boats, their time has passed. When we had forests and quality lumber, wood boats were cheaper to build and commercially had a long life if cared for. Now most of the available wood is well below the quality a boat builder would accept in the 1920s. To get a 4" plank from a lumberyard I have to start with a 2x12 and still sort thru the pile to find an acceptable board. The rest of the 2x12 is firewood. In the old days, most of the planks ran from stem to stern as a single piece for hull strength. Even in 150' lumber schooners. Try finding a 100' board of anything.

Till I joined the USCG, I watched the majority of wooden boats I grew up with eventually sink.

In the USCG I saw a great number of both commercial and recreational wooden boats sink, by the time I retired it was rare to see one offshore fishing except smaller more modern ones.

Another 13 years in the towing and salvage business saw more sink...but fewer and fewer as most were already gone or sitting I no on land rotting.

The farther one went north, there were more, but a fraction of what I knew in my youth.

Of the 117" woodie I mention in post #4... although I was a 150 feet away from it while at dock on our boat, it is pretty easy to visually tell some tell tale poor condition circumstances.

1. Line on its long curve roof structure is somewhat warped

2. Line on gunnel [gunwale] does not follow its own curve as it appears it should be doing

3. Hull side planks have joint separations and edge to edge plane irregularities

4. Some of the water line rub rail is sloping away from hull with noticeable, various width dark area lengths against its junction with hull plank.

5. In general, the not always "flush" adjacent surface edges of carvel planks from gunnel to water and for full length of hull looks not too good

6. As the boat constantly falls and rises in its setting in water [the HD pumps change its level by what often appears to be one to two +/- inches] the bottom wood at bow looks too dark. Maybe that is a lot of things other than rot... but... she's in fresh water and I've heard has been so for at least a while. You make the call!

As I mentioned in post #4... IMO, due to past years of experience... this ol' woodie is kaput!

There is a wooden boat across the fairway from our berth. Her bilge pump runs for 15 seconds with a 55 second interval in between. That means the bilge pump is running for over five hours per day. Assuming a 2,000 GPH pump, that gets to more than 10,000 gallons per DAY! Sooner or later this boat is going to sink right there in her berth.

There's an old woodie at the Astoria west mooring basin. One pump runs almost full time, the other about 50%. An old couple living abroad. It'll be a sad day when it goes down.

Interestingly for me but not for them... I wished them best luck!

5 or so yrs ago at Harbor Freight Tools I was in check out line and a rather scruffy looking couple were next to me. Somehow a boat conversation ensued. I learned that last night "her" boat [an old small tug] had suddenly sunk. Reason - area electricity had gone off and so the 120v electric sump pump was non functional. Boats sure sink quickly if not properly tended to!!

I don't know. There seems to have been a precedent set where if you are personable enough and good with a video camera you can get your completely rotten wooden boat rebuilt pretty much for free (to you). Helps to have a boat yard with a bunch of people who have lots of experience rebuilding wooden boats though (doesn't seem to require a lot of tools either).

my pumps run constantly when i first dunk her after winter break in Alaska. after a few days it tapers down to about 5000 gal a day.

all pumps are in good condition and i have plenty of battery power. the bilge is always clean and no odors.

ofer said:

my pumps run constantly when i first dunk her after winter break in Alaska. after a few days it tapers down to about 5000 gal a day.

all pumps are in good condition and i have plenty of battery power. the bilge is always clean and no odors.

Click to expand...

Decades ago in New England states I worked in boat yards and was in on repairing and relaunching many wood boats. Yup - the planks swell and water ingress ebbs. Remembering it well.

Gotta ask... you mention - "... after a few days it tapers down to about 5000 gal a day" still that much water ingress through wood seams after 5 days?

Art said:

Decades ago in New England states I worked in boat yards and was in on repairing and relaunching many wood boats. Yup - the planks swell and water ingress ebbs. Remembering it well.

Gotta ask... you mention - "... after a few days it tapers down to about 5000 gal a day" still that much water ingress through wood seams after 5 days?

Click to expand...

i am relatively new owner and new to wood boats. i am working on the seems. it will get better.

On launching a woodie , weather new build or stored boat it was normal to leave the boat in the slings o'nite .

Also normal was to get the owner away from the boat and a crew with open topped boxes filled with saw dust on long poles would push the boxes along the hull, the saw dust would float up sealing many leaks till the boat swelled up..

The winter is dry and many woodie owners do not understand the hull on hauling must be painted quickly with cheap bottom paint to keep the wood from drying out.

In past times in a good yard the boat would be kept in a building to keep the wind away all winter.

catalinajack said:

There is a wooden boat across the fairway from our berth. Her bilge pump runs for 15 seconds with a 55 second interval in between. That means the bilge pump is running for over five hours per day. Assuming a 2,000 GPH pump, that gets to more than 10,000 gallons per DAY! Sooner or later this boat is going to sink right there in her berth.

Click to expand...

With declining oyster populations, the boat you observed is just doing its part to filter out the bay water.

It’s unfortunate insurance companies, marinas and others lump all wooden boats together. Plank on frame is a very different creature than epoxy cold molded or even strip plank. Issues of rot, fasteners, high maintenance doesn’t exist. At one time looked into having Covey Island build me a boat. Wanted core of strip plank. Then layers of cold molded on either side. Then outer skin of woven. Framing requirements decreased significantly. R value quite high as was strength to weight ratio. Cost about the same as Al. These boats are strong, fast, low maintenance and durable. Look at Farfarer or other designs done in modern wood. Unfortunately, like Fe, it’s poorly accepted by the general boating public and it’s ancillaries in North America so has become a self fulfilling prophecy with little market share.

FF said:

On launching a woodie , weather new build or stored boat it was normal to leave the boat in the slings o'nite .

Also normal was to get the owner away from the boat and a crew with open topped boxes filled with saw dust on long poles would push the boxes along the hull, the saw dust would float up sealing many leaks till the boat swelled up..

The winter is dry and many woodie owners do not understand the hull on hauling must be painted quickly with cheap bottom paint to keep the wood from drying out.

In past times in a good yard the boat would be kept in a building to keep the wind away all winter.

Click to expand...

And on top of all of that, the planking design, etc. all has a big effect. Some hulls seal up easily after a winter on land, others not so much.


At my marina, there's a maximum launch rate of 1 woody per week, always on a Friday afternoon. That way it can sit in the slings all weekend if needed.

rslifkin said:

At my marina, there's a maximum launch rate of 1 woody per week, always on a Friday afternoon. That way it can sit in the slings all weekend if needed.

Click to expand...

unfortunately in my case that option is not available. in Homer Ak you get 30 minute window to launch at high tide an usually there is more than one boat to fit into the time frame.

On another note:

For years I mused a cement, aggregate and polymer based fast set mixture to be pressure shot into hull mold's 1" thick cavity [i.e. male and female molds in place]. Proportionally suspended inside the mold cavity would be ridged stainless steel wire mesh as well as stainless [or bronze in one or both instances] long span reinforcing rods.

Entire hull-mold system would be set atop a giant "shaker bed" that vibrates at adjustable high speed oscillations... for fully settling the injected appropriate viscosity cement/aggregate/polymer liquid into all mold nooks and cranny.

Liquified cement/aggregate/polymer injected mixture would have relatively fast set time; wherein the male mold could be pulled within eight hours and the preliminary finished hull pulled from the female mold a short time after.

Speed of manufacturing as well as hull strength would be greatly increased. Inner and outer hull surface finish could be accomplished by various simple means. Material repairs, if needed, during long life of the boat hull would be easy and strong.

The buildout concept is not much different than plastic injection molds. Manufacturing speed would be a big bonus to boat builders. Other boat sections/portions could be created using the same manufacturing procedure.

A profit filled type of "cement boat" manufacturing is always a possibility.

ofer said:

my pumps run constantly when i first dunk her after winter break in Alaska. after a few days it tapers down to about 5000 gal a day.

all pumps are in good condition and i have plenty of battery power. the bilge is always clean and no odors.

Click to expand...

I was on the near DF woodie twin to your vessel a few days ago. It was quite dry with minimal water ingress. 5,000 gallons per day is a lot of inflow. Have you identified location(s)?

sunchaser said:

I was on the near DF woodie twin to your vessel a few days ago. It was quite dry with minimal water ingress. 5,000 gallons per day is a lot of inflow. Have you identified location(s)?

Click to expand...

it was on the bow and the stern sections. i just redone the bow with 4200 and i like it although at $31 a tube is really pricey. i am also testing Sudbury marine sealant its really good too and half price, also very flexible. the current seems have a mixture of wax and cement. taking it all out is a lot of fun.

there is also a leak around the keel garboard that i am able to remedy by flooding the boat a few days prior to launch.

koliver said:

In Vancouver Harbour a couple of days ago.

This 54' Monk woodie was, according to a friend's email, "on a sea trial, Operator noticed 3' of water in the main cabin, headed for the nearest beach".
Shaft seal let go?

Now the news is all about containing the "200l if fuel" I suspect more than 200 g in a boat that size.

Click to expand...

That 1967 54' Monk McQueen that went down in Coal Harbour in Vancouver belonged to my father in law between about 1985 to 2003. I spent a lot of time on that boat, most often doing maintenance and updates, but also cruising. It had been a live aboard and needed work when he bought it, but he was very active in seeking out well qualified guys to bring it back to it's original condition. By the time he sold it in 2003, it was in pristine condition. (Always boathouse kept)
It's now located about a 1 minute drive from my boat, and I've spent a bit of time inspecting it. Pretty hard to see it now, there's really nothing undamaged.

Regarding the fuel, if memory serves, it held 600 gallons (about 2,700 litres). I have no idea how much fuel was on board, but the tanks were not ruptured so the only leakage came from the vents, which were plugged at some point after the initial problem. I doubt much fuel escaped.