Designing & Building Hammerhead

Salty Pelican said:

Scenic pics of our last little boat trip! Yeah, well, it was misty ...

Regards, Edwin & Veronika

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Misty Be Good.


Well, it is pretty while the boat is not moving. Not so pretty when the boat is moving.


Later,
Dan

Dan, I loved getting to the water early! Sounds are very clear in misty conditions. AIS was an amazing help. Sailing slowly, like 5 knots ... totally enjoyable!

Regards, Edwin.

Here are two pictures of the ventilation plan. Our boat will have heating as well as airconditioning. Since she's an ocean-going boat, with roll-over / self-righting capability, we want the boat as air-tight as possible. Air-tight = water-tight. But that means we need forced fresh air ventilation. Anyhow, enjoy the pics!

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

Safeguard rails or not?

In the picture underneath, you see a sailboat with a safeguard rail situated above the windows. Sailors can connect their harnas to it and safely move up and down the boat. Now, we are designing a motor yacht, with stabilization, and - of course - no sails that need to be managed ... but would this still be a good addition, given the expedition-style cruises we anticipate? Higher latitudes, bigger waves? What say you?

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

Salty Pelican said:

In the picture underneath, you see a sailboat with a safeguard rail situated above the windows.

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Salty, that’s just a handrail. On sailboats we ran a wire, only attached at the ends, so our harness would slide without having to be removed and re-attached continuously. All the short stantions in the photo actually increase the hazard for that purpose.

Having said that I think it’s a 100% solid idea to have handrails on both side of your side decks, don’t just rely on one side in heavy seas. In big seas I would actually crouch down even though I did have both sides, trying to get my COG below the top of my horrible 30” high railing.

BTW, follow commercial specs (CE, ABS, etc.) and go with the 1 meter high railing.

Thanks for chiming in, Mako. As I understand it, it is not a handrail, but one connects a little "cart" to it, that allows the sailor to walk forward and back, while being attached. The construction can take 2000 kilo's or 4,400 pounds. I'll see if I can find another picture that explains it better.

Yes, railing will be 1 meter high!

Regards, Edwin.

It would be interesting to see what your traveler looks like - it is something that is repurposed from a sailboat?

If we'll add it, it will be proven technology, as used on aluminium expedition sail boats, Mako.

Regards, Edwin.

We are thinking to equip the boat with a 55 kilo Rocna anker. With 100 meters of chain.

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

Had a Rocna and loved it but for the next go round will switch to a Spade. Didn’t like reset with 180 current or wind shifts and loose mud performance. You’re building an amazing boat. Expect you’re going to be a world traveler so will experience many types of bottoms and also 180 shifts in places. Become convinced all the roll bar anchors have issues in those settings. Think weighed tips really help in packed sand, weed and grass. Used the Rocna at 3:1 and didn’t drag even in fresh breezes. It’s an amazing anchor but think for an all situations anchor the Spade is better.
P.S. - would still carry a fortress as a secondary regardless of what you choose as a primary. Think nothing does better in loose mud.
I’m with you on the 100m of chain. Know on another thread folks were saying 200’ suffices. That’s true until it doesn’t. If you cruise enough those situations definitely come up.

Thanks Hippo, for sharing. Yes, we will travel the world!

Regards, Edwin.

Re chain length, at least my comments on 200' being sufficient was in the confines of the US east coast. In some other areas, including the NA west coast up through Alaska, I'd be trying for 200m or as close as practical. I went from 400' on the last boat to 600' on this boat. I got by with 400', but there were a few times when I had it all out.


As a reference, my recollection is that Dashew had a 150kg on his 7801. His comment was that he wanted to carry a mooring, not an anchor. I like that thinking.

Thanks! Makes sense to go bigger/longer where possible. I'll discuss this in depth with our NA. Thanks guys, your comments are very important.

Regards, Edwin.

Salty Pelican said:

We are thinking to equip the boat with a 55 kilo Rocna anker. With 100 meters of chain.

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

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See previous post with links, https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s25/designing-building-hammerhead-58500-7.html#post1026515.



100M of chain will work in some areas and not in other areas. Depends on the location.

Later,
Dan

Thanks Dan! Seems like I am running in circles sometimes!

Regards, Edwin.

Designing & Building Hammerhead

Regarding length of chain, since you don’t have a heavy trawler like @Twisted, then you do need to consider the extra weight of carrying chain rode that will not be used 95% of the time. Also the fact that the bottom of the pile always winds up rusting away from un-use.

Deepest I’ve anchored was outside Avalon Harbor in CA. I recall about 110ft, maybe slightly more. When going deep you only need 3:1 scope, so I agree that 100 meters should be adequate, then carry some 8-plait in case you need to go deeper.

Also that rope rode can serve double duty as a shore line, tow line, etc.

Makes sense, Mako. Good advise! 100m it is.

Regards, Edwin.

Salty Pelican said:

Thanks Dan! Seems like I am running in circles sometimes!

Regards, Edwin.

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Welcome.

With the complexity of a boat, especially building a new one, running around in circles is about the only way to keep track of things.

Well, that and a spreadsheet!

Later,
Dan

Range projections

Schematic drawing of the expected range.

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

twistedtree said:

Re chain length, at least my comments on 200' being sufficient was in the confines of the US east coast. In some other areas, including the NA west coast up through Alaska, I'd be trying for 200m or as close as practical. I went from 400' on the last boat to 600' on this boat. I got by with 400', but there were a few times when I had it all out.


As a reference, my recollection is that Dashew had a 150kg on his 7801. His comment was that he wanted to carry a mooring, not an anchor. I like that thinking.

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FWIW, add my vote to those who advocate going with "the biggest anchor, longest chain you can stand and then at least one size up" Club. While I appreciate that your NA will obviously need to know all the details of your ground tackle and incorporate this into their design decisions, just remember very few NA's have ever spent a night on anchor, let alone in a whale of a gale.

Ground tackle for me is all about SWAN and so I go with what will give me the most of that and then design around it. Keeping things in perspective relative to your use case for the boat, if you are going to be cruising the world then you will run into EVERY type of bottom there is and the full spectrum of pretty much every category. Factoring this into your primary anchor choice is key and this perspective will also dramatically change your reactions to the various tests and reviews that are out there. For example, I have huge respect for Steve Goodwin who now has more than 100 YouTube videos of his anchor testing but when you look over how different anchors have rated on the various categories he has for different bottoms and different conditions, the top rated anchors change accordingly. I read and watch Steve’s and many other examples of anchors working and not working and again my conclusion is that it always comes down to “it depends”. For example, I think that any anchor can fail to not reset quickly in certain bottom types, on certain boats in certain conditions and so there is once again no “best” anchor for all. This is just as you’d expect and makes perfect sense and this also means to me at least that if you and your boat intend to cruise the world then you have two ways to go: carry what you think is the best anchor for each of these bottom/condition categories OR carry one anchor that you think will give you a “mooring” every time you anchor.

On previous boats I used to go with the "carry multiple anchors so you have the best one for different bottoms and conditions" and I think I had up to 6 onboard at one point. However, after many years and nautical smiles of anchoring hundreds of times in most every condition and speaking with many other captains about their experiences, I reversed my thinking and my ground tackle along the lines of the quote that Peter attributed to Dashew about wanting to wanted to "carry a mooring, not an anchor" and ever since I have gone with one monster anchor and lots of big chain. My thinking is that every time I anchor I want to have THE best anchor I have down there so my main anchor is my only anchor and it goes down every time. To round out my overall ground tackle inventory onboard, I do carry a second anchor for kedging situations as well as shorefast equipment for situations that require it.

There is some truth to the concern some have expressed about the chain at the bottom of the locker not being used very often and turning into a pile of rust but this is easily solved with a well designed anchor bin that self drains and has a non metallic grid on the bottom. In my experience, doing this along with regular chain maintenance that would include reversing your chain ever 1-2 seasons has kept all of my chain in very good condition for at least 5-8 years.

Anchor choice borders on a religion for many it seems and so I won’t enter into that endless debate. However, I value first hand experience very highly and appreciate all who share what their choices have been and what works and what does not for them and their boats. In that same spirit, I will gladly share the choices that we made for ground tackle on our recently launched XPM78-01 mv Möbius which is a 24m/78’ all aluminium eXtreme eXploration Passage Maker that would be in the same family tree that includes boats such as Pilot Boats, FPB series, Circa 24, Arksen, etc.. Relative to ground tackle the dimensions at half load are: LWL 23.9m BWL 4.3m Displacement 40.5T The ground tackle we carry on Möbius is as follows: Main anchor 125kg/275lb Rocna with 125m 13mm G43 chain and 100m 15mm Dyneema rode, Kedging anchor Fortress FX125 (31Kg/70lbs) with 50m 10mm G43 chain. It was over two years ago when I was ordering these items and I considered many different choices for all of them and then made what was the just right, just for us choices above. In the case of the anchors themselves we ended up “go with what you know” and having had a lot of excellent experience with Rocna and Fortress for many years all over the world, this is what we decided was best for us.

As for the question that Salty Pelican posted about using a 55kg Rogna and 100m of chain (not sure what size or type?) my suggestion would echo the same suggestions from others here to upsize both of them substantially to provide the most robust and dependable ground tackle on a global passage maker. Hope this is of some value to Salty Pelican and others out there who are considering what is the just right choice of ground tackle for them and their use case.

-Wayne

Thanks for sharing, Wayne, much appreciated!

Oversized anchor and longer chain via the addition of Dyneema rope.

Regards, Edwin.

Agree with TT and W with the following modifications. Weight at either end is detrimental to the gyradius. This is particularly important in a long thin boat. Not centralizing weight will have an effect on ride and how much green water you’ll take on in a seaway. 100m will suffice 99% of the time. Dyneema is light. Adding as much as you want won’t materially effect trim nor decrease strength of the totality of the system. Read Morgancloud (Attainable Adventures). Think those discussions are experience and fact based. Rather see weight translated into anchor and strong chain then extreme chain length.
Would at least entertain a non roll bar due to reset issues. Prefer Spade against Excel due to less risk of entanglement of the shank. We cruised short handed. A drag and need to get up to reset in the middle of a sporty night is just miserable.
TT has a ship. This gives him freedom in some respects. His displacement is multiples of yours. Additional weight has less effect. . Wayne offers much wisdom as does TT. But you’re right. End of day it comes down to a discussion with the N.A. How much weight can you stick up there? Have you considered moving all chain weight aft as Boreal and other high lat aluminum sailboats do( EdJoy’s Seal, the various Pelagics of Tony Castro including his powered craft). They routinely anchor in high winds at great depth. You’re doing an one off. Paying for that experience allows you freedom others don’t have. That modification of the design lifts many restrictions. Consider moving the weight aft

It'll be part of the Anchor Plan, and effect of placement on weight distribution is defenately something we'll keep a close eye on.

One of the options we'll consider is have the chain retract under the V-birth. This will move the weight back by at least a meter. If needed, that is.

Regards, Edwin.

Maybe think about moving windlass and rode storage farther aft. Catamarans, out of necessity, put the windlass back on the wing deck and I've seen some racer/cruiser sailboats with the windlass just in front of the mast.

Thanks!

Regards, Edwin.

She'll be able to beach, by the way. The propellor window is the lowest point, but there is a keel and a flatter spot just ahead of the keel, especially to allow for beaching. On a horizontal plane, she'll have a 2 degree inclination forward, when beached. The great news is that we were able to do so without compromising stability or efficiency.

Very happy because this allows us to really investigate the Waddenzee and more!

Regards, Edwin & Veronika

We are almost off to another long weekend of sailing with our motor yacht Salty Pelican! Tomorrow morning we'll head down the Lek river (a major "arm" to the Rhine river, as it deltas out towards the sea). That'll be like 3 hours.

After that we'll go to port, onto the Noord river towards the city of Dordrecht. That'll take an hour, maybe an hour and a half. Then via the Dordtse Kil towards "Hollands Diep", where we'll overnight at the beautiful port / fortress city of Willemstad.

On Saturday and Sunday we'll enjoy the province of Zeeland, name-giver to New Zealand. Lots of water. Where sweet meets salt water. On either Sunday or Monday, depending on the weather, we'll do some North Sea cruising, probably towards Rotterdam, and then back to our home port of Vianen.

We'll post some pics as we move along!

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

Hippocampus said:

.... Read Morgancloud (Attainable Adventures). Think those discussions are experience and fact based. Rather see weight translated into anchor and strong chain then extreme chain length...

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There is a new anchor article on Morgan's Cloud regarding anchor selection that is interesting, https://www.morganscloud.com/2021/09/21/helping-a-member-choose-an-anchor/.

Edwin and others might find the article and discussion interesting.

Morgan's Cloud is behind a pay wall but it is well worth the money.

Here is a tidbit from the article but one should really, really, really, read the whole article and the other anchor related articles.

... Just remember these things above all else as you decide:

• Reliability once set trumps all.
• You are not going to satisfy such diverse criteria with one anchor.
• Best anchor tables need to be weighted to match our needs.
• Real experience out there cruising over a wide area for decades—we are talking thousands of sets, not scores—trumps tests.
• Drop inconsequential stuff like price and rusting from your criteria.
• Searching for the best anchor is a fool’s errand. The best we can do is select reliable anchoring equipment for our usage. We will never know if that selection is the best—realizing this is kind of freeing.

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Morgan's Cloud has other articles about anchoring and anchors and a "book" as well. Go subscribe to the website and get lost in the articles.

Morgan's Cloud also has articles regarding aluminum boats and electrical systems which is critical to prevent stray current problems.

Later,
Dan

Thanks for sharing! I do look at their posts every now and then.

Regards, Edwin.

First rendering is in! Still a beta-model, so some of the detailing still lacks or needs a bit of extra love. But overall, I think it's a looker!

Regards, Edwin.