Electronics

Building a 43e helmsman and would love to hear thoughts on electronics. What do you like or not like and why? This boat has helm on the bridge and pilot house. Looking to cruise up and down the east coast. Maine to Florida.

Radar
Chart plotters
Infra red Cameras
Spot lights

Chartplotters - get big screens. They're worth it.
If you can afford an forward-looking IR camera I recommend it. They're worth their weight in gold if you end up deliberately or inadvertently moving at night.

As for brands, I like Furuno. Their systems are robust and they service their stuff. When you call Furuno you talk to a person. Literally, they answer the phone. I almost fell out of my chair the first time I called. I have a newer system and a backup system from 1985. They both work great. I had one issue with the newer system and they talked me thru a corrective process on the phone. Took probably 4 calls and a couple hours, but they never gave up. And I bought it used - it's not like I was the original buyer. There was no warranty. They still work hard to help. When the 1985 radar had a problem they talked me thru the diagnostics, then repaired the part that had failed. I don't know anyone else like Furuno.

They're not the cheapest. IMHO, they're worth it.

Juliet 15 said:

As for brands, I like Furuno.

They're not the cheapest. IMHO, they're worth it.

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I went through a search a few weeks ago, competing Garmin and Furuno. I picked Furuno.

And despite what probably was true before, the package was less expensive than Garmin, particularly on the chartplotters.

I have done frequent, at one point more frequent than day time sailing, night sailing. All you really need is a portable rechargeable hand held spot light. And for night vision, a reasonable priced night vision monocular system. Most people are afraid to move around at night, excluding commercial and rescue vessels so their boat equipped for night running doesn't get used. Most of my night sailings were from Pt Roberts over to the San Juan Islands in the off season (interesting sea states sometimes) and I can guarantee you, not once did I ever sea a pleasure boat out and about at one, two and three in the morning.

In the pilot house I have two MFDs. On the fly bridge (which doesn’t get used much) I have one. I definitely like the two MFDs. It provides a lot more flexibility in choices of what data is displayed depending on the situation.

I have Garmin MFD/XHD24 on the trawler and brand new Furuno 1815 radar on my center console. I would spend the extra money to get MARPA if possible and/or a Doppler type radar from whoever makes it.
I find a hand held cordless spotlight is all I need for casual night use.

Definitely an autopilot is a necessity. Any good brand that will talk to your chartplotter.
Standard Horizon or Icom VHF. A big internal or external speaker really helps.
AIS transponder Class B
Depth can be just an Airmar P79 digital output tied to your chartplotter N2K. Once per second update is fast enough.

I'm moving toward a PC based platform using TimeZero and Furuno Sensors (Radars, Depth, etc).

Helmsman43 said:

Building a 43e helmsman and would love to hear thoughts on electronics. What do you like or not like and why? This boat has helm on the bridge and pilot house. Looking to cruise up and down the east coast. Maine to Florida.

Radar
Chart plotters
Infra red Cameras
Spot lights

Click to expand...

We've done a fair bit of nighttime navigation... I think I've used a spotlight about 8 times in the last 40 years... and most of those were leaving our marina at oh-dark-thirty with a fishing crew... simply because the fairway outside out slip was a bit skinny.

And haven't had an IR camera, so can't comment. Sounds more useful than a spotlight, though.

I like redundancy in depth finders, so usually aim for a fishfinder and a DST unit, different/compatible frequencies. The FF allows a bit more inspection of bottom structure.

Radar almost mandatory in fog -- or stay home -- and heavy pop-up thunderstorms... and we've found AIS useful too, mostly for negotiating with shipping traffic. Radar useful for crab pots, too.

Autopilot very useful, especially for long stretches of "go straight." Or for having lunch while on watch and navigating.

We only have one station, flying bridge, because of the crab pots. Can't predict how best to equip two stations, but I'd probably be looking for complete set-ups at each, maybe with repeaters if possible.

Our most recent long-term experience has been with a Furuno suite for radar, DST, autopilot, fishfinder, MFD, and AIS. All good, great customer support (seldom needed), and Furuno would be my first choice again.

I also like redundancy in VHF radios. Happens our most recent experiences have all been with ICOM units, which have seemed fine.

-Chris

In the process of updating 2004 Furuno equipment now.
Replacing with all new Furuno.

Removed 1 1830 MFD and 1 1930 MFD in pilothouse. Replaced by dedicated industrial fanless PC running TZPro software. Installed new Furuno NXT network radar that feeds TZPro and new TZ3 MFD on fly bridge.
Left old Furuno 1930 MFD on bridge fed by 72nm open array scanner as backup navigation.
New NXT scanner is phenomenal compared to 2004 vintage scanner. New NXT developed an issue 6 months after install (stopped producing a return other than 'main bang' ring. Called Furuno in SEA and talked to the engineer. Walked me thru all resets and troubleshooting. Unfortunately, nothing worked. Shipped up to SEA for repair and they sent back a new unit (said that the internal processor stopped working). Local Furuno tech stated that this was extremely rare. Unit has been flawless since.
For now, depth is fed by nmea2000 thru-hull (epoxied to inside of hull, no hole) depth transducer (next haulout I will install proper fishfinder transducer).
Highly recommend.

Airstream345 said:

I'm moving toward a PC based platform using TimeZero and Furuno Sensors (Radars, Depth, etc).

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This seems like a really good approach provided you have space for the monitors, etc. Everyone I know who has done this loves it.

One thought about PC navigation I use with Coastal Explorer is to run a USB cable from the lower helm to the upper helm. This will allow you to run a single PC from two locations with remote monitor, key board, and mouse. I used a wireless keyboard and mouse when I had a second helm since they are generally close enough for Bluetooth to work.

Tom

twistedtree said:

This seems like a really good approach provided you have space for the monitors, etc. Everyone I know who has done this loves it.

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What the preference(advantages/disadvantages) for the PC and TimeZero approach versus Furuno’s tz3 mfd’s, which I’ve just ordered? In my case 19”.

bowball said:

What the preference(advantages/disadvantages) for the PC and TimeZero approach versus Furuno’s tz3 mfd’s, which I’ve just ordered? In my case 19”.

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I think the ability to use larger screens if you have space. Also use of a standard mouse or track ball, plus a keyboard. Advantage to an MFD is that it has some amount of NMEA 0183 and N2K interfacing built in where with a PC you need to add that, and not just crappy RS232 USB dongles, but real RS-422 interfaces that will work reliably by design rather than by luck.


Quite often people end up with both a TZ and the PC software.

twistedtree said:

I think the ability to use larger screens if you have space. Also use of a standard mouse or track ball, plus a keyboard. Advantage to an MFD is that it has some amount of NMEA 0183 and N2K interfacing built in where with a PC you need to add that, and not just crappy RS232 USB dongles, but real RS-422 interfaces that will work reliably by design rather than by luck.


Quite often people end up with both a TZ and the PC software.

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Oh, and the TZ has fishfinder capability built in so you just connect a transducer. With the PC setup you need to also get a DFF sounder module. All in all the TZ is a more compact setup, so better when more space constrained.

+1 on a portable non-corded spotlight in lieu of a fancy installed remotely operated one. (I have both - never use the mounted unit)
+1 on dual MFD displays. This is my first boat to have them, don't know how I lived without.
* If you can, get a transducer that gives you water temp. Very useful in many cruising areas. Also as a former sailor I like to know where the currents are and how they can help me so a transducer that incorporates a paddle Water Speed signal is mandatory for me.
~A

Airstream345 said:

I'm moving toward a PC based platform using TimeZero and Furuno Sensors (Radars, Depth, etc).

Click to expand...

That is what I did to replace my failing NN3D black boxes (essentially locked down PCs). But, I found that for the flybridge, cockpit and tower displays, which were sometimes in direct sunlight, the Furuno monitors (MFDs) were far better than any 3rd party monitors I could find. So now, I have 5 MFDs and 1 PC (hitting Furuno 6 station max), and am pretty happy with it. One minor complaint -- the sounder (DFF3?) scrolls much faster when it is being driven by the pc than by any of the MFDs. Next time I need to talk with Furuno / Nobeltech tech support, I will ask why.

bowball said:

What the preference(advantages/disadvantages) for the PC and TimeZero approach versus Furuno’s tz3 mfd’s, which I’ve just ordered? In my case 19”.

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Not much in my experience, but TZ Professional has features that the MFDs don't have. Also, the MFD's allow you to power up / shutdown all the MFD's in the network by a simple button push at any of the MFDs. I don't think the TimeZero software has that feature. Getting and displaying weather files is a little easier with the Time Zero software than with the MFDs. As I just noted elsewhere, the sounder (DFF3) scrolls faster with a PC driving it than with an MFD.

The one thing that is actually important to me is that the larger MFDs have HDMI inputs but cannot display video on those inputs. Sounds crazy, but Furuno tech support has confirmed it. As a result, the MFDs can't function as hi def monitors (they also have composite inputs, but I am not interested in low res video), while a PC running TZ could display through a monitor capable of high def display through multiple source inputs. One of the video sources I really wish I could display in the cockpit and tower, especially, but also the flybridge, is my Furuno CH250 searchlight sonar. The boat is for fishing and the searchlight sonar is a valuable too. Sucks not to be able to display it in the tower and cockpit, where I have no other monitors.

Furuno. Solid, works well, great Tech support including after they have taken your money.

Water temp. I point my IR temperature gun over the rail. Close enough.

bowball said:

What the preference(advantages/disadvantages) for the PC and TimeZero approach versus Furuno’s tz3 mfd’s, which I’ve just ordered? In my case 19”.

Click to expand...

For us we already had [older] Furuno onboard (NavNet3D and a 1935 10" long range radar. I didn't love the charts on the NavNet so I added a 24" touch screen monitor running Coastal Explorer which is connected via a RosePoint Nemo gateway. I liked it a lot but found the monitor to perform poorly in direct sun and equally poor in low light (couldn't get bright enough during the day or dark enough at night). I also found that I used the mouse 99% of the time so the "touch" capability wasn't valuable.

I recently replaced that monitor with a Samsung 49" curved monitor. Great daytime and night performance and I can display a TON of information on the screen (see pic).

My winter project is to add a second 49" curved monitor on the starboard side along with a second NUC and will replace my Furuno radars and add a Furuno black box sonar for the existing transducers. This means I can view Radar and Sonar onscreen along with all other ship's sensors on the network (tank levels, engine data, wind conditions, etc). Switching to TimeZero enables Furuno sencor natively over ethernet and also adds some reall nice features Coastal Explorer lacks. I can also access cameras, work from my laptop and watch Seahawks games via YouTubeTV

I hatched this idea when I was touring a factory fishing trawler docked here in Seattle. There wasn't an MFD to be found. The pilothouse and deckboss stations looked like IT control rooms with multiple 19" monitors mounted on tubular stands connected to rack mounted PCs in closets. They all used Furuno sensors but relied on PCs and monitors for display.

I also find the cost of the large screen MFDs to be a little out there. I can buy a 49" monitor and a decent 12V NUC for about $1600. Even adding the software I come out ahead and my interface is independant from my sensors.

Im in the process of redoing my nav and electronics setup as well and I’m with airstream on his choices on rosepoint, I do prefer a standalone radar and dedicated radar screen to compliment the rosepoint for navigation. I do not like the fancy radar overlays over charts either. I tend to prefer dedicated systems without much networking. But that’s just me, I come from a commercial background and do as much driving at night as in the day at work so I tend to prefer the more no nonsense dedicated commercial setups when it comes to fitting out my pleasure craft. High power spotlights and floodlights are really nice to have when you need them but if you don’t plan on doing much if any night driving it’s not needed. I Even plan on installing a second radar array and screen in the future when I get the chance but for 99% that is also not needed for most. Figured out the cost and for the package garmin quoted me for I believe 23k I can have a much more powerful and robust commercial setup with all the lights and floods I want with dual radar and rosepoint. Lol blew my budget out of the water the moment I started looking at fish finder stuff though. Fell in love with some of the commercial Furuno 180 and 360 fish finder stuff until I looked at the price which cost more than my boat lol hope I can find some in the used market though. Second hand marine electronics tend to go for pennies on the dollar if you don’t mind buying used, and the commercial gear last a very long time and most of the gear is still able to be serviced 15-20 years after install.

On the advice of my mechanic and my electronics installer (full time in this capacity), I chose Garmin. I went with the 1242 12" mfd for the flybridge, and 942 9" for the cabin helm station due to space limitations there. I chose Garmin's Fusion radar, 18" dome, and stayed with the older Raymarine auto pilot displays.

I'm completely happy with this set up: Brightness of the Garmin flybridge mfd, tracking and target acquisition of the radar...simply amazing detail. Sonar displays well with my old transducer. Being able to create very large images and tracking of acquired targets makes them very clear.

This set up has capacities beyond my abilities at present, learning more on each visit to the boat.

By the way, on longer cruises, having a PC with navionics is a nice back up, and night before daily segment review and planning.

Seems like each brand reviewed on this thread has satisfied clients - a good thing.

True. There is no one correct decision. My highly experienced friend prefers Garmin I prefer Furuno.
I never loved Garmin’s UI in small planes, he does. Preferences. All good stuff.

Following with great interest, as I'm also looking at a major electronics overhaul this winter.

The RosePoint / Coastal Explorer option that Airstream outlines is appealing, but as JMarsh points out, it looks like their ability to overlay radar provides significantly more complexity and cost (assuming one is interested in that feature).

Perhaps this is why Airstream is going to upgrade to (or augment with) TimeZero? Does anyone have a good experience getting TZ working with radar?

I have just installed all new Garmin - two 12” in PH, one 12” on FB, new 1224 radar, AIS and AP. Still getting to know it but prefer it in nearly all ways to the Raymarine gear I had on the last boat (5 year old vintage just before Axiom). And I really liked the Raymarine.

However, I also like to use an IPad / Navionics for a lot of things and am frustrated that Raymarine is fully integrated with Navionics and Garmin isn’t. They have owned the business since 2017! That is a lifetime in tech product development. I thought I’d just transition to Active Captain but don’t like it as well.

Our boat apparently started life with a Navigator (by Maptech), plus Raymarine E-120 radar, ST8001 autopilot, S2G AST course computer (?), and Ray240 black box VHF with separate speaker. Not sure where depth info came from; maybe the Navigator and some unidentified transducer. The ST8001 autopilot still exists, and still works... though it's not connected to a plotter.

Along the way, someone replaced the radar screen with a circa 2016 Garmin GPSMAP 7612xsv MFD (BlueCharts), connected to a GMR 424 open array radar, and there's an Airmar DST200 (DST 800 predecessor?) on that network. I updated the software to latest, and then I updated the charts from G2 to G3. The Ray240 radio had also been replaced with an ICOM M400BB with Command Mic, not connected to a GPS source... and I replaced the dead antenna with a Shakespeare Galaxy when we got the boat.

My current thought is to replace the dead Navigator screen with a Furuno "TZTouch3" TZT12F (real estate issue), augment DST info with a 525STID-MSD transducer (B744V equivalent, fishfinder/bottom discrimination), and add an FA-70 AIS Class B+ transponder with it's own AIS VHF antenna.

(I see it as an advantage to also have NOAA charts on the Furuno plotter complementing Garmins G3 charts, and even more advantage to being able to add C-Map or Navionics charts at some later date, should I decide to "need" those.)

I'd also add another ICOM M400BB/Command Mic (real estate issue) with a loud hailer, and with it's own VHF antenna, presumably another Shakespeare Galaxy.

And then I'd be connecting each VHF to a GPS source, probably one to the Garmin and one to the Furuno, and the autopilot to a chartplotter, probably the Furuno.

I'll probably think on it for another several months before putting any of that in motion, though.

And in the meantime, we've got the working Garmin stuff, augmented with TimeZero on the ship's laptop, plus AquaMap, iSailor, and MX Mariner on ship's tablets. I might eventually splurge for a more recent version of TimeZero...

-Chris

I swapped two of my four MFD2 (NavNet3D) chartplotters out for two TZT16F (TZT3). The old setup with four was due to the NN3D displays being slow, as was typical for their time. (two stations, flybridge and salon, with 2 displays each). Switching from raster to weather to radar to vector, etc took too long. It was easier to have different displays showing different screens rather than switching. The new TZT3 are fast enough for it not to be an issue. So I haven't replaced the other two NN3Ds. But I may still replace them pending some deciding on what kind of system to go with to get shallow water sidescan/bottom display. Furuno is amazing at deep water but it seems others handle shallow better.