Furuno or Garmin

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RickyD said:
I might consider a more feature rich transducer like the B275 with Chirp for such an otherwise extremely robust installation.
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What’s the advantage? For someone not fishing.
 
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bowball said:
I looked at TimeZero and it looks great. How do you integrate it with Furuno? What type of hardware is needed?
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Like Furuno's TZT3 MFDs, a PC running TZ Professional will require two data connections: an ethernet cable and USB providing NMEA data. It gets a little bit complicated if you have both NMEA0183 and NMEA2000 data, but in my case a multiplexer (for 0183), feeding the NMEA2000 network through a converter, did the trick.
 
RickyD said:
You need the 3D Plotting, Chirp Transducer like the B275, and I believe you need the TZT3 MFD.
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Yes, as I mentioned previously, I already have two TZT16F units. I've zero experience choosing transducers for this sort of thing, thus it's on my 'to do' list to investigate. Hopefully I'll get it installed when it's on the hard this winter.

There's the questions of which transducers, where they'd be placed in the hull and the how they'd get connected. From what I gather it's possible to feed some models of transducers straight into one of the TZT3 units (and share that to the other via their Ethernet connection).
 
wkearney99 said:
Yes, as I mentioned previously, I already have two TZT16F units. I've zero experience choosing transducers for this sort of thing, thus it's on my 'to do' list to investigate. Hopefully I'll get it installed when it's on the hard this winter.

There's the questions of which transducers, where they'd be placed in the hull and the how they'd get connected. From what I gather it's possible to feed some models of transducers straight into one of the TZT3 units (and share that to the other via their Ethernet connection).
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I have been trying to sort through transducers now. Originally thought I wanted Chirp. Might still get it but trying to sort out all of the options of cheaper units is still a bit of a mystery for me. Nothing I can find says "if you want this feature, you need this transducer" unless it is the very expensive stuff. Furuno just doesn't seem to have the bottom imaging I would like without the DFF3 3D black box with the B275 transducer. What about the B265? or B260 or a zillion other options.

Yes you can plug the transducer into the back of the TzT3 MFD unless you want 3D. Then you need a black box. There are black box options but I have not looked into them.
 
The reason I’m not going with the dff3 3D mapping is I am not using this trawler to fish. I wish there was another compelling reason as the graphics look cool. Perhaps going through a very narrow channel to see the sides… but nothing really comes to mind for the price difference.
 
ranger42c said:
Our new ride came with the previous generation Garmin 7612xsv, including radar and depth, an older Raymarine AP not connected to the plotter, an older ICOM VHF not connected to a GPS... and some other broken stuff.

After I think about it for a while, I'll sort out our complete system-to-be. Another depth finder (or maybe fishfinder), another MFD, AIS... plus another VHF and a loud hailer... with everything actually connected as necessary...

Excepting radios, that build-out could end up being all Furuno (bag the Garmin stuff), or mix-and-match Furuno and Garmin, or more likely all Garmin simply because of the cost of replacing a functioning radar.

But I won't be jumping into that immediately, giving myself more time to use this boat and think about it all, first...
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ranger42c said:
I've inherited some Garmin bits and pieces, but if I completely replace all that or simply add on some Furuno equipment, one reason will be to take more advantage of a newer version of TZ.
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I'm gradually coming to recognize the potential advantages of building out the rest of our nav system with Furuno equipment, when I get a round tuit. That would include another MFD, another GPS source, a fishfinder (or at least DST), and an AIS transceiver.

That would give us a mixed Garmin/Furuno/Raymarine/ICOM system, which at first glance doesn't sound all that focused...

But...

The Garmin radar, GPSMAP 7612xsv MFD, and depth finder all work, an unnecessary radar replacement would be expensive, and the G3 vector charts are at least acceptable. The Raymarine Autopilot works, even if not currently connected to a plotter. The ICOM black box VHF works, even if not currently connected to a GPS source.

Adding a Furuno MFD/GPS would give me more choice of charts (NOAA, C-Map, Navionics) and annual updates at least for NOAA charts. A fishfinder or DST with it's own separate transducer would give me redundancy (and the FF version of that would let me see bottom structure). And AIS transceiver would return a capability we had with the previous boat.

And if the Garmin radar or the Raymarine AP breaks, we'd get Furuno replacements.

Keeping the VHF radios in a separate category, I've had ICOM for a while now, and adding another (with a hailer) will give me redundancy and at the same time a system I'm reasonably familiar with.

I think I could live with a mish-mash...

-Chris
 
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Certain items like autopilot and AIS are pretty brand agnostic in most cases. Use whatever you like best for those, even if it's different than the main systems. There may be some advantages of a same brand AP, but nowhere near as much as what you gain from a well integrated set of MFD, radar, depth, etc.
 
I can’t think of a reason why I would want auto-routing. I can lay down a route in a minute or less and in the process review potential hazards and issues with currents.

Jim
 
Ok, I pulled the trigger on the Furuno system.

Autopilot 711C
Fish Finding Chirp B265LH transducer for Bottom Discrimination
DRS4DNXT dome radar
TZT3 16 MFD
SCX20 Sat Compass

I'm waiting for the pain of the expense to wear off. I'm really looking forward to all the new capabilities and ease of use.
 
RickyD said:
Ok, I pulled the trigger on the Furuno system.

Autopilot 711C
Fish Finding Chirp B265LH transducer for Bottom Discrimination
DRS4DNXT dome radar
TZT3 16 MFD
SCX20 Sat Compass

I'm waiting for the pain of the expense to wear off. I'm really looking forward to all the new capabilities and ease of use.
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Are you sure about the B265LH?

I don’t believe it’s NMEA 2000, which was important for me for a new install. I went with the DST800L.

The one you selected looks like it’s the older NMEA 0183. That’s a less advanced serial networking topology. I’m not completely certain, but it certainly appears it from the connectors they use.

But you only have one chart plotter where I have many so it’s use to me is more important to have multi talk multi listen.

Plus I have heard reliability issues with the dst800l though I don’t know if they are solved now.

Otherwise we have similar technologies.
 
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bowball said:
Are you sure about the B265LH?

I don’t believe it’s NMEA 2000, which was important for me for a new install. I went with the DST800L.

Otherwise we have similar technologies.
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Yes, it is 2000. It is Chirp capable, 1Kw, dual band high and low frequencies. It is a step down from the B275 that includes wider coverage. I just couldn't go the extra $500 bucks for a better fish finding transducer. I wanted Chirp and Bottom Discrimination. I'll do a little fishing but not much. Furuno tech support helped me with the decision.
 
RickyD said:
Yes, it is 2000. It is Chirp capable, 1Kw, dual band high and low frequencies. It is a step down from the B275 that includes wider coverage. I just couldn't go the extra $500 bucks for a better fish finding transducer. I wanted Chirp and Bottom Discrimination. I'll do a little fishing but not much. Furuno tech support helped me with the decision.
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Ok, the one I saw had a 12 pin connector.

And the model wasn’t listed on their NMEA section of the website.

https://www.airmar.com/productinfo.html?category=NT&name=NMEA Transducers

Do you have a reference for it so I can see the certification? My installer implied it wasn’t 2000.

I have to say though Airmae really don’t provide information in an easy to find way!

Let’s hope we can get our equipment soon with all the back order delays!!
 
RickyD said:
Ok, I pulled the trigger on the Furuno system.

Autopilot 711C
Fish Finding Chirp B265LH transducer for Bottom Discrimination
DRS4DNXT dome radar
TZT3 16 MFD
SCX20 Sat Compass

I'm waiting for the pain of the expense to wear off. I'm really looking forward to all the new capabilities and ease of use.
Click to expand...

Ricky,

Are you installing yourself?
 
bowball said:
Ok, the one I saw had a 12 pin connector.

And the model wasn’t listed on their NMEA section of the website.

https://www.airmar.com/productinfo.html?category=NT&name=NMEA Transducers

Do you have a reference for it so I can see the certification? My installer implied it wasn’t 2000.

I have to say though Airmae really don’t provide information in an easy to find way!

Let’s hope we can get our equipment soon with all the back order delays!!
Click to expand...

I called Furuno tech support and asked for their recommendation. We did not talk NMEA, only supplying the data I wanted at a more moderate price. I asked about other transducers and the tech said "you want Chirp" and suggested a couple options including the B265LH. L = low frequency for deep waters, H = high for shallow. and 1Kw for extra power over the 600w. My main consideration was Bottom Discrimination. Call Furuno tech support.
 
Helmsman said:
Ricky,

Are you installing yourself?
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No, I have the boat on the hard now in Ensenada MX getting some work done. Bottom paint, cutlass bearings, shaft seals, etc. On the way to the yard my old Raymarine E120 MFD started losing the backlight. So, now its time to upgrade. I have already purchased the transducer and it arrives in San Diego tomorrow. I'll have them take out my old V744 transducer for my Raymarine fish finder and install the new B265. I then decided between two Furuno dealers for the rest of the stuff and installation which they will do when I get the boat home.
 
RickyD said:
I called Furuno tech support and asked for their recommendation. We did not talk NMEA, only supplying the data I wanted at a more moderate price. I asked about other transducers and the tech said "you want Chirp" and suggested a couple options including the B265LH. L = low frequency for deep waters, H = high for shallow. and 1Kw for extra power over the 600w. My main consideration was Bottom Discrimination. Call Furuno tech support.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That’s helpful. I wonder if the reason I received a different answer was since I need to drive 6 of their MFDs off the network.
 
Commonly we allow the system to generate an autoroute. But do not engage the autopilot to follow it. Rather use the AP to go waypoint to waypoint. And intentionally place those legs to seaward of the plotted autoroute the computer has generated. Sometimes depends upon current, traffic, obstacles or other factors will place the leg to landward of the autoroute route but generally it’s to seaward.
Like seeing the autoroute on the plotter in a different color from everything else. Tells me shortest distance and where likely traffic will be. Find this very helpful although we never integrate it to directly command the AP except in ocean or offshore situations where we want a great circle course.
Of interest there’s an often quoted study where VMG for a early generation AP was compared to a human and then a windvane. Done over a long passage on the same sailboat. The AP did best, vane second and human worst. Have no reason to believe it would be different under power.
Now with current APs being self learning (NKE seems to be industry leader) and throwing out windvane as not applicable seems clear the more you use the AP less fuel you’ll burn and the faster the transit. Suspect like many on every boat I’ve owned you hand steer going out and in but that’s about it. Think there’s a big difference in the ride when the AP is smart and anticipates the waves. Know sometimes I’ll deviate the course significantly to either avoid or make use of current. The sophistication of the autoroute program and as importantly the AP should enter into your decisions for something as expensive as electronics. Believe this is true even if like me you don’t use it to steer the boat except on rare occasions.
 
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Hippocampus said:
Commonly we allow the system to generate an autoroute. But do not engage the autopilot to follow it. Rather use the AP to go waypoint to waypoint. And intentionally place those legs to seaward of the plotted autoroute the computer has generated. Sometimes depends upon current, traffic, obstacles or other factors will place the leg to landward of the autoroute route but generally it’s to seaward.
Like seeing the autoroute on the plotter in a different color from everything else. Tells me shortest distance and where likely traffic will be. Find this very helpful although we never integrate it to directly command the AP except in ocean or offshore situations.
Of interest there’s an often quoted study where VMG for a early generation AP was compared to a human and then a windvane. Done over a long passage on the same sailboat. The AP did best, vane second and human worst. Now with current APs being self learning (NKE seems to be industry leader) and throwing out windvane as not applicable seems clear the more you us the AP less fuel you’ll burn and the faster the transit. Suspect like many on every boat I’ve owned you hand steer going out and in but that’s about it.
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Wifey B: I look at autoroute like a trip planner but we always adjust it before using. Here's an example of a situation. Plan to run outside from Fort Lauderdale to Cape Canaveral. Auto routing (and this is true on all I've used) will run you just barely off shore, taking the shortest route. You'll likely prefer to run such a trip many miles off shore to avoid boats transiting all the inlets up and down the coast. Adds very little to your trip. In many areas of the country, you'll prefer further out to avoid lobster or crab pots. Also when running rivers, canals or the ICW you're not going to want to take the shortest route and cut all curves and corners. You're going to want to consider other boats and stay in the right side of the channel but also sweep curves wide enough to avoid new shoaling. It's like the magenta line. You don't actually set on that line and follow it precisely. :nonono:
 
Really like TimeZero. Have the Navigator version with the radar option.

We replaced our 13 year old Raymarine system with an complete Furuno system. Love it.

We have TimeZero on two PCs; one at home for planning and one on our boat as a redundant display to our TZT3. Hard to beat the ease of moving routes on the TZ Cloud, to all three devices.

Would like to see TimeZero on an android device. They told me they were working on it, but no date commitment.

Cheers,
 
BandB said:
Now we also use Timezero with our Furuno as it has incredible route planning.
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To use TimeZero do you need a Windows OS or would it work on Mac's OSX?

Any hints on how to plan using it, and the advantages?

For coastal cruising, is there a reason to get the Professional over the Navigator?

I also wonder if I use their app on an iPad on my tender, I can plot those paths with a separate color than the boat. And somehow capture depth soundings.

thank you. Been reading through their websites trying to put all the pieces together. Including the app.
 
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TimeZeroNeeds a PC operating system. It will not work on a Mac. Even with an emulator.
 
BandB said:
TimeZero iBoat obviously works on iPads.
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Sorry, I should have been more clear. Does it have the same functionality as the windows version, or is it Tome Zero “light”?

For instance, with the Navionics app, you can autoroute on an IPad, but are limited to 200 waypoints.
 
Helmsman said:
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Does it have the same functionality as the windows version, or is it Tome Zero “light”?

For instance, with the Navionics app, you can autoroute on an IPad, but are limited to 200 waypoints.
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We've only used the iBoat a little, mainly to test it, because I simply have a strong dislike for anything iApple. Haven't run into any problems in the limited using and synchronizes nicely with TimeZero. It's not got all the features of TZ Navigator or Professional but sure has what most would use.

As to limitations, keep in mind Navigator also has limitations, only Professional does not. Navigator is limited to 30,000 marks, 200 routes of 500 waypoints each and 100 boundaries. Sounds like a lot but we had 65 routes in 5 months this summer. I suspect the iBoat limitations are similar but don't know that for a fact.

A couple of additional points. We don't use TimeZero as stand alone, but as front end for Furuno.
 
BandB said:
We've only used the iBoat a little, mainly to test it, because I simply have a strong dislike for anything iApple. Haven't run into any problems in the limited using and synchronizes nicely with TimeZero. It's not got all the features of TZ Navigator or Professional but sure has what most would use.

As to limitations, keep in mind Navigator also has limitations, only Professional does not. Navigator is limited to 30,000 marks, 200 routes of 500 waypoints each and 100 boundaries. Sounds like a lot but we had 65 routes in 5 months this summer. I suspect the iBoat limitations are similar but don't know that for a fact.

A couple of additional points. We don't use TimeZero as stand alone, but as front end for Furuno.
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Thanks, I am going with Furuno on my boat. So we will use the same, I think.
 
A bit late to the party, but here's my 2 cents:

I've owned and used Furuno, Garmin and Raymarine over the years. Current vessel has Garmin, but it will be upgraded to non-Garmin in the future.

Some peeves about Garmin.

1) Poor support in general. If you read the owners manuals you can better answer questions about their products than the support reps. In fact I think that is all they do, look up in the manual or search on-line for an answer.

2) Proprietary system. Many features will not integrate unless all Garmin network

3) Can't buy parts for to repair the units. Try ordering something as simple as a speaker to replace a dead one - not happening

4) Charts are very inaccurate for quite a few locations including the A-ICW and west coast of FL. Limited to Garmin charts only of chart plotters

5) Seemingly Garmin is the most expensive for what you get.

So what do I like:

Furuno: Tops in the group for radar!! Excellent, reliable, very accurate images Awesome support. Long term products that you can order parts for. Integration with PC (TZ or Maxsea). I overlay radar onto my OpenCPN computer screen charts so it's on a separate display from my main chart plotter anyway.

Raymarine: I hated C and E series equipment. LOTS of issues with them (chartplotters, and autopilots mainly) failing, losing Seatalk connections, bad support (engineers in UK, but hard to reach them). BUT with that said, I just sold a boat I owned for two years with the new AXIOM system. Incredible. Constant upgrades with new features. No system crashes, excellent support (now able to reach trained people here in the US). Great bang for the buck. Very intuitive. Choice of high quality charts. Radar integrates (unofficially) with OpenCPN

Icom: Still my choice for VHF and SSB.

So, I have different brand equipment on board. i tend to go with the best device in it's category. With N2000, it's really been easy to make it all work and get 95% off all the features to play among the brands.
 
zigzag930 said:
A bit late to the party, but here's my 2 cents:

I've owned and used Furuno, Garmin and Raymarine over the years. Current vessel has Garmin, but it will be upgraded to non-Garmin in the future.

Some peeves about Garmin.

1) Poor support in general. If you read the owners manuals you can better answer questions about their products than the support reps. In fact I think that is all they do, look up in the manual or search on-line for an answer.

2) Proprietary system. Many features will not integrate unless all Garmin network

3) Can't buy parts for to repair the units. Try ordering something as simple as a speaker to replace a dead one - not happening

4) Charts are very inaccurate for quite a few locations including the A-ICW and west coast of FL. Limited to Garmin charts only of chart plotters

5) Seemingly Garmin is the most expensive for what you get.

So what do I like:

Furuno: Tops in the group for radar!! Excellent, reliable, very accurate images Awesome support. Long term products that you can order parts for. Integration with PC (TZ or Maxsea). I overlay radar onto my OpenCPN computer screen charts so it's on a separate display from my main chart plotter anyway.

Raymarine: I hated C and E series equipment. LOTS of issues with them (chartplotters, and autopilots mainly) failing, losing Seatalk connections, bad support (engineers in UK, but hard to reach them). BUT with that said, I just sold a boat I owned for two years with the new AXIOM system. Incredible. Constant upgrades with new features. No system crashes, excellent support (now able to reach trained people here in the US). Great bang for the buck. Very intuitive. Choice of high quality charts. Radar integrates (unofficially) with OpenCPN

Icom: Still my choice for VHF and SSB.

So, I have different brand equipment on board. i tend to go with the best device in it's category. With N2000, it's really been easy to make it all work and get 95% off all the features to play among the brands.
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Thanks for the assessment. It tracks with a lot of the things I have heard before. Glad the Axiom is an improvement. I had the RayMarine eS127 CP and had problems. Their old forum page was very good to use for support.
 
Totally agree!!!!!!
 
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