Bottom Paint

Next Tuesday [9/14/21] Our boat gets hauled for [red] bottom paint, new [blue] boot stripe... etc.

1. What's your preferred bottom paint brand?

2. Do you recommend ablative bottom paint or hard bottom paint?

We currently dock in SF Delta's freshwater; done so for 12 years. There is chance we may be moving back into SF Bay saltwater.

I appreciate your input!

Thanks!!

Art

Our boat is on Lake Michigan. I operate it at 8-9 knots with occasional short periods at 12-13 to work the diesels a bit. The boat gets hauled every Fall after about five months in the water. It was painted with two coats of Interlux CSC HS (high solids) ablative about five years ago. Paint is still in great shape. I very lightly power wash it at every haul out. (Yard crew are not allowed to go near the bottom with a power washer after they ripped off about $500 worth of ablative paint in 30 minutes).

I like the HS (high solids formula) and the CSC ablative line in general because the anti-fouling protection reactivates every Spring when we launch the boat. $370 per gallon when I checked Amazon. Four gallons to put two coats on our 44 (39 water line). The Interlux coverage calculator was very accurate.

I use Interlux NT because it is both hard and ablative. Usually best to check with some local boaters and/or marinas to see what works best in the waters you plan to be in. I think the NT paint is the same or similar to West Marine BottomShield.

Rufus / b n' b - Thanks!!

I had choice of hauling boat 100 + road-miles away or cruising her to 12 road-miles away. The 100 miles makes it hard for me to keep eye on things... but... for reasons it won the choice.

Plan to post outcomes and photos. May camp out a day or two near by the haul while items proceed. I want to make sure all through hulls and other items are in great condition.

Art

I like Interlux paint in general because I have received great support from them over the years.

Art said:

Rufus / b n' b - Thanks!!

I had choice of hauling boat 100 + road-miles away or cruising her to 12 road-miles away. The 100 miles makes it hard for me to keep eye on things... but... for reasons it won the choice.

Plan to post outcomes and photos. May camp out a day or two near by the haul while items proceed. I want to make sure all through hulls and other items are in great condition.

Art

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What do you plan to use on your running gear and other underwater metals? I'm still looking for a good solution for that.

I've been using Micron CSC on my boat. Worked well enough when the boat was in Long Island Sound, still works fine in Lake Ontario. It's pretty hard for an ablative paint, so it's slow wearing. And you can get it pretty smooth if desired. It does grow plenty of slime, but it cleans off easily and the thin slime layer I get here in fresh water doesn't seem to slow the boat down any, so I don't worry about it. It keeps the zebra mussels and such off just fine.

For the running gear, I've been using Pettit Black Widow. I had a few spots with poor adhesion with the Pettit zinc primer the first time, so I switched to using Primocon. I'll know in ~6 weeks if that worked better. So far it's done a good job of keeping the running gear (shafts, struts, rudders, trim tabs, props) clean and smooth. The props came out of the water spotlessly clean, not even a hint of slime. The rest of the gear had just a little slime that wiped right off (less slime than the hull). And no growth on the tops of the trim tabs or anything.

rslifkin said:

I've been using Micron CSC on my boat. Worked well enough when the boat was in Long Island Sound, still works fine in Lake Ontario. It's pretty hard for an ablative paint, so it's slow wearing. And you can get it pretty smooth if desired. It does grow plenty of slime, but it cleans off easily and the thin slime layer I get here in fresh water doesn't seem to slow the boat down any, so I don't worry about it. It keeps the zebra mussels and such off just fine.

For the running gear, I've been using Pettit Black Widow. I had a few spots with poor adhesion with the Pettit zinc primer the first time, so I switched to using Primocon. I'll know in ~6 weeks if that worked better. So far it's done a good job of keeping the running gear (shafts, struts, rudders, trim tabs, props) clean and smooth. The props came out of the water spotlessly clean, not even a hint of slime. The rest of the gear had just a little slime that wiped right off (less slime than the hull). And no growth on the tops of the trim tabs or anything.

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I get barnacle growth on my underwater metals. Maybe not an issue in fresh water. Tried a couple different paints, see how it looks upon haul in October. Keep in touch re. the Primocon

backinblue said:

I get barnacle growth on my underwater metals. Maybe not an issue in fresh water. Tried a couple different paints, see how it looks upon haul in October. Keep in touch re. the Primocon

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No barnacles here, but lower water flow areas on boats get zebra mussels. Tops of trim tabs are particularly bad about it on most boats. Even with the minor adhesion failures, I'd say the Black Widow passed the test as a paint. ~90 hours on the engines last year, probably 15 of those up on plane and there was no detectable wear on the well adhered paint, even on the prop tips. And not a single zebra mussel.

rslifkin said:

No barnacles here, but lower water flow areas on boats get zebra mussels. Tops of trim tabs are particularly bad about it on most boats. Even with the minor adhesion failures, I'd say the Black Widow passed the test as a paint. ~90 hours on the engines last year, probably 15 of those up on plane and there was no detectable wear on the well adhered paint, even on the prop tips. And not a single zebra mussel.

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Good news for you. Although it doesn't look like Black Widow is specifically for metal, use what works.

backinblue said:

Good news for you. Although it doesn't look like Black Widow is specifically for metal, use what works.

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Correct, it's not a metal specific paint. So choice of primer matters (which is why I first started with the Pettit zinc primer, as they say you can use that with Black Widow on top on metals). My paint choice for the running gear came from the idea of wanting to find something similar to Propspeed (slippery), but with some actual antifouling properties and ideally cheaper as well.

backinblue said:

What do you plan to use on your running gear and other underwater metals? I'm still looking for a good solution for that.

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I plan to again use bottom paint on struts, through hull filter-grates, rudders and trim tabs. Nothing on shafts and props.

In fresh water where we play it's bare-back swimming warm from may through October. One of my favorite pass times while at anchor is to swim under boat and do all sorts of maintenance. Anodes are well serviced as well as through hull openings checked/cleaned. I scrub the shafts and props with bronze BBQ brush... they stay very clean. Bottom surface itself needs little to no cleaning as the extremely thin coating of slime that accumulates is always negligible and non intrusive to cruising.

We pulled in exactly on time [2 PM this Tuesday] after a couple hour cruise. Experienced attendants [including Ramon the yard owner] were on site at the good condition 30 ton travel lift. Our Tolly was lifted and getting pressure washed in about 30 minutes. See photos...

- A few relatively small blisters will be repaired
- Bottom will be sanded scraped where necessary
- Boot stripe [Tolly teal color] needs to be elevated by a couple inches... because we keep too much weight aboard; LOL!
- All through hulls will be checked and serviced/replaced as necessary
- Rudders will be checked for shaft tightness etc
- Cutlass bearings checked and replaced if needed
- New anodes installed
- SEAGUARD® ABLATIVE ANTIFOULING bottom paint

I may also have their mechanic install new heat exchangers on both engines. The old exchangers are getting long in the tooth.

Depending on what items need new installations the $$$ total will range from a low of $4,227

Being that I've known the yard owner for years [and have never heard a bad word about him] I'm at a high level of trust.

Couple years ago Ramon Mata moved from Paradise Point Marina [where we've docked in a covered berth for 12 years]. Recently, he purchased this good looking, well laid out yard that was previously named Ladd's Marina. He has placed his yard name on it "Pacific Boat Services". 4911 Buckley Cove Way, Stockton, CA 95219 (209)334-2127 / (209)477-9521. I have no affiliation what so ever. Just wishing Ramon much success!

In 1950's, 60' and 70's I did a lot of work on boats in "boat yards" of LI NY and up in Maine. Ramon's new yard reminds me of the great yards I worked at back when!

Edit: Don't know why first two photos went sideways and third is straight? But... when I punch em up to enlarge - all three are straight! Go Figure...

Art, did you perhaps mean "Seaguardian", rather than "Seaguard"? Seaguardian is sold here, various types, I had good experience. If the shoulder wrenching weight of a 10L drum is an indicator, there`s a lot of whatever is in it compared to some others.

BruceK said:

Art, did you perhaps mean "Seaguardian", rather than "Seaguard"? Seaguardian is sold here, various types, I had good experience. If the shoulder wrenching weight of a 10L drum is an indicator, there`s a lot of whatever is in it compared to some others.

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Thanks for mention:

Simply copied the name off a document. Owner of yard doing my boat is greatly trusted by all I've spoken with... by me too. I'm sure Ramon uses high quality product.

Make sure new coating is compatible and will adhere to new coating. Read matl app and safery data sheet. Seek advice from coating tech rep.before buying.

bgillroy said:

Make sure new coating is compatible and will adhere to new coating. Read matl app and safery data sheet. Seek advice from coating tech rep.before buying.

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Thanks!

BruceK said:

Art, did you perhaps mean "Seaguardian", rather than "Seaguard"?

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"Seaguard" is one of the Sherwin Williams line of anti fouling paint products. Had I come across this thread earlier, I would have advised the OP against using any Sherwin Williams paint but maybe he's had good results with it up in the Delta. I cannot say the same about my experiences with it down here in the Bay.

fstbttms said:

"Seaguard" is one of the Sherwin Williams line of anti fouling paint products. Had I come across this thread earlier, I would have advised the OP against using any Sherwin Williams paint but maybe he's had good results with it up in the Delta. I cannot say the same about my experiences with it down here in the Bay.

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Thanks fst!

I'm letting the yard owner use his preferred bottom paint brand. He has great reputation in SF Delta freshwater areas and recently purchased a nice yard. I've known Ramon for years from the yard he managed for over a decade. We see eye to eye on things. In addition to bottom paint there's a couple blisters being tended to and we're reviewing/checking-over all underwater through hulls. Of course both cutlass will be checked as well as bearing-shaft of each rudder. New anodes too. This time I'm going with aluminum on shafts and rudders with a magnesium on transom plate [diver's dream].

In addition... I'm having the yard mechanic carefully check our engine's heat exchangers - they're getting rather long in the tooth!

Art said:

This time I'm going with aluminum on shafts and rudders with a magnesium on transom plate [diver's dream].

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I would question the expertise of any yard that advocates mixing metals when it comes to anodes. Generally viewed in the industry as something you should not do. What is Ramon's rationale for this?

fstbttms said:

I would question the expertise of any yard that advocates mixing metals when it comes to anodes. Generally viewed in the industry as something you should not do. What is Ramon's rationale for this?

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My rational, not Ramon's.

No special reason other than I have the aluminum anodes aboard for areas of placement and for a while have had the magnesium diver's dream aboard.

You think they conflict with one another?

Art said:

My rational, not Ramon's.

No special reason other than I have the aluminum anodes aboard for areas of placement and for a while have had the magnesium diver's dream aboard.

You think they conflict with one another?

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To some extent the magnesium anode will end up protecting the aluminum anodes, chewing it up faster. Fstbttms can probably clarify further on any other issues this may cause.

rslifkin said:

To some extent the magnesium anode will end up protecting the aluminum anodes, chewing it up faster. Fstbttms can probably clarify further on any other issues this may cause.

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Sorta sounds like a double indemnity "anode clause" to me! LOL

rslifkin said:

To some extent the magnesium anode will end up protecting the aluminum anodes, chewing it up faster. Fstbttms can probably clarify further on any other issues this may cause.

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"Don’t Mix Anode Types. If you install different anode materials
like zinc and aluminum, the more active anode (aluminum) will
spend part of its effort protecting the less active metal (zinc). This
will reduce the overall protection that you are getting."

https://www.absolutemarine.co.nz/image/catalog/documents/anodes/truth_aluminum_anodes.pdf

fstbttms said:

"Don’t Mix Anode Types. If you install different anode materials
like zinc and aluminum, the more active anode (aluminum) will
spend part of its effort protecting the less active metal (zinc). This
will reduce the overall protection that you are getting."

https://www.absolutemarine.co.nz/image/catalog/documents/anodes/truth_aluminum_anodes.pdf

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fst - Thanks for the link. I read it fully.

Inboard boats with mainly bronze and stainless metal parts can be protected using zinc or aluminum anodes. Don’t worry about overprotecting them. You are only overprotected when the weight of the anodes is so great that your boat sinks! The voltage generated by zinc or aluminum anodes will not cause any damage – no matter how much anode material is added, the maximum voltage that can be generated is the voltage of the anode itself. You could also use magnesium in freshwater locations on fiberglass-hulled boats. Be careful using magnesium on aluminum or wooden hulled boats since you can overprotect them. Steel hulls can also be overprotected to the point where excessive protection voltage rapidly lifts the paint off the hull.

Aluminum - The Final Winner! In our opinion the best all-round anode material is aluminum. Consider these points ! • Aluminum anodes are more active than zinc and are accepted by the major Sterndrive manufacturers as the best material to use. • Aluminum anodes are not so active that they are dangerous in salt or brackish water as are magnesium anodes. • Aluminum anodes will last longer because of their increased current capacity. • Aluminum is the only anode material that can be used safely in all types of water. • Aluminum anodes are 2 ½ times lighter than zinc making them much easier to carry home from the store! • Aluminum is a much better alternative than zinc as far as the environment is concerned, since it is not considered a pollutant.

Don’t Mix Anode Types. If you install different anode materials like zinc and aluminum, the more active anode (aluminum) will spend part of its effort protecting the less active metal (zinc). This will reduce the overall protection that you are getting. A classic mistake is adding a zinc transom anode to a Sterndrive equipped with aluminum anodes. Transom anodes are connected through the bonding system so make sure you install aluminum replacements.

Sooo... Am I correct to think that magnesium anode diver's dream would be eaten faster due to its added need for protection of the aluminum anodes on shaft/rudder? And... that all anodes therefore would give reduced protection to the bronze and stainless and steel water surrounded portions.