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STEEL Passagemaker! Looking for 50'-60" PH with Fly

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Raxerox

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Thank you for looking.

In search of a go-anywhere STEEL pilothouse trawler type Passagemaker with a flybridge. Budget up to $300. Single engine preferred (Gardner, Cat, Perkins) with the fuel range to go offshore for extended periods. Would like 3 cabins, 2 heads with showers. Cosmetics and electronics are not as important as good systems and solid mechanical history. We are ready to purchase, cash deal.

Be safe and Happy Boating!
 
STEEL Passagemaker! Looking for 50'-60" PH with Fly

Well drat, more competition [emoji6]

The odds are not good and the goods are odd, to twist an expression. The ones that have been on the brokerage sites in that price range appear to me to be…well, too much a gamble on condition, or not really a passage-maker at all. Add another $150k to your budget and the possibilities increase quite a bit (easy for me to say I know.) If one sees one, it is invariably smaller with two staterooms sleeping three or four, or ridiculously large. I’ve been willing to seriously look at steel as a potential undervalued opportunity in the North American market and they are still that along with wood, just not undervalued enough!
 
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https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1967/cammenga-north-sea-trawler-3019446/

No flybridge, two cabins,, but ticks other boxes including Gardner diesel. Been for sale for a couple years. Might mean price is negotiable into your price range.

If 3 ataterooms are important, the larger Seahorse Ducks come to mind as they are a aft-stateroom. Of course, that means getting on/off boat sucks compared to a sedan layout such as the link above, but it's a tradeoff.

Good luck

Peter
 
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There are ones in Oregon and Fort Myers, FL that meet your specs at face value except for the flybridge (I guess since you specifically mentioned it we should consider it a dealbreaker :eek: ) Though both are intriguing, after researching them from afar I've decided to not bother to see either one, based on my own wants (and biases.) You might have a different opinion on them.

And then there is the Observer in Port Angeles. It was painfully overpriced before but they've come down, again intriguing but doesn't fit our needs with the lack of a true master stateroom and less-than-easy access between the pilothouse and the foredeck and railing.
 
Thank you for the suggestion. I have loved and coveted the DD for years and they are near the top of the list. we almost went in on "Jubilee" but it was a bit too cramped for this family of five.
I realize how particular our criteria are and we are willing to settle on a two-cabin layout if there is ample space, much like that lovely 50' passagemaker "Slowgoesit"! A lovely boat for sure but sadly not many of those in steel are available.
Patience is a virtue I suppose :)
 
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https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1967/cammenga-north-sea-trawler-3019446/

No flybridge, two cabins,, but ticks other boxes including Gardner diesel. Been for sale for a couple years. Might mean price is negotiable into your price range.

If 3 ataterooms are important, the larger Seahorse Ducks come to mind as they are a aft-stateroom. Of course, that means getting on/off boat sucks compared to a sedan layout such as the link above, but it's a tradeoff.

Good luck

Peter
BTW..."Migrant" seems to only have one head. I love that boat and the work the owners did is fantastic.

I have three daughters and little room for compromise there unfortunately.
 
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1967/cammenga-north-sea-trawler-3019446/

No flybridge, two cabins,, but ticks other boxes including Gardner diesel. Been for sale for a couple years. Might mean price is negotiable into your price range.

If 3 ataterooms are important, the larger Seahorse Ducks come to mind as they are a aft-stateroom. Of course, that means getting on/off boat sucks compared to a sedan layout such as the link above, but it's a tradeoff.

Good luck

Peter

Thanks Peter! I am sure I know what boats you are talking about and they are exactly what we are looking for in most ways with a few issues here and there. The green one "Banshee" in BC is especially attractive. It has been listed for a LONG time and is currently under offer. She needs about $100k in operational refit work but the two staterooms, in that case, are fine.
If we could find one similar to her (but more realistically priced for condition) we would be happy.

Please keep the suggestions coming! I appreciate all the feedback.

There are ones in Oregon and Fort Myers, FL that meet your specs at face value except for the flybridge (I guess since you specifically mentioned it we should consider it a dealbreaker :eek: ) Though both are intriguing, after researching them from afar I've decided to not bother to see either one, based on my own wants (and biases.) You might have a different opinion on them.

And then there is the Observer in Port Angeles. It was painfully overpriced before but they've come down, again intriguing but doesn't fit our needs with the lack of a true master stateroom and less-than-easy access between the pilothouse and the foredeck and railing.
 
So right!

Well drat, more competition [emoji6]

The odds are not good and the goods are odd, to twist an expression. The ones that have been on the brokerage sites in that price range appear to me to be…well, too much a gamble on condition, or not really a passage-maker at all. Add another $150k to your budget and the possibilities increase quite a bit (easy for me to say I know.) If one sees one, it is invariably smaller with two staterooms sleeping three or four, or ridiculously large. I’ve been willing to seriously look at steel as a potential undervalued opportunity in the North American market and they are still that along with wood, just not undervalued enough!

You are so right! I have found the same obstacles. I am on the verge of just going to Norway or Sweden and buying one just out of frustration.
 
STEEL Passagemaker! Looking for 50'-60" PH with Fly

Lol. I told my wife we should just change our plans and cruise Europe instead. I love the boats in used inventory over there.

But then we’d endlessly debate finding a trawler yacht that could handle North Sea storms, sleep 8 comfortably and still be French canal capable [emoji6]
 
I've also considered "Banshee" but two issues kept bothering me. First, the incredibly ridiculous layout of the staterooms which would require a complete tear-out and rebuild (IMO); and the overprice. But if the seller has found a buyer then good for him.

Regarding Diesel Ducks, have also seriously considered a new build and had many discussions with George B. previously, but I couldn't get over the lack of livability regarding outdoor spaces. Since I don't want a flybridge and prefer to keep the coach roof for solar, there is no covered space outside, no covered aft deck like with a sedan model. Wife really struck that one down.
 
Have a look at Australia. A series of boats that come up now and again are the Fiddler series. They are about 55 ft Gardner powered (6LXB) a bit boxy looking but roomy, good back deck and fuel efficient. There is possibly one coming up for sale in Tasmania in the near future.
 
I am responding collectively to a few of the posts above:

I sold M/V Migrant for her original owner to the owners that did the major rebuild. The original owner was the Guinness family of ale fame and I had the pleasure of working with one of the family members who owned and cruised her for decades.

I believe I have posted here on this forum, forgive me if it was my "other" forum, about the difficulty of surveying and repairing Gardner engines. While they are still probably arguably the most stout engine ever, service and parts are near impossible.

With the budget proposed, although it sounds hefty, the vessel will be older vintage. Make sure you have the budget for the repairs. Even with audiogauging, not all problems can be found proactively. Migrant's owner had no idea he would be spending $1m+ for unforeseen necessary work. Now, of course I'm not saying that all older boats will require that, but just sayin...

While I am a strong proponent of steel yachts, I have concerns over the experience required for owning a vintage one.

You might take a look at "Boats & Harbors." I have subscribed for a couple of years, but they may have something appropriate in your price range.
 
...

Regarding Diesel Ducks, have also seriously considered a new build and had many discussions with George B. previously, but I couldn't get over the lack of livability regarding outdoor spaces. Since I don't want a flybridge and prefer to keep the coach roof for solar, there is no covered space outside, no covered aft deck like with a sedan model. Wife really struck that one down.

Some/Many of the 462 Pilot House DDs have a cock pit which is really nice and it is, or can be, covered. Figured that is what we would do with a DD. The covered cock pit on a a 462 DD was a major selling point for us.

Later,
Dan
 
I haven't seen that layout of the 462. If you have a photo or GA plan please share. However, I remember there was a sedan style DD but it was a Seahorse, so not available to purchase the plans.
 
I haven't seen that layout of the 462. If you have a photo or GA plan please share. However, I remember there was a sedan style DD but it was a Seahorse, so not available to purchase the plans.

Yep, Seahorse was doing the cockpit and cockpit covering for the DD 462 Pilot House. That would not be hard to replicate. Bill just added the cockpit seats/storage and put in the overhead cover and structure. I believe it is all fiberglass, except for the structure of the cockpit cover, which is stainless steel. Some owners have a bimini over the cockpit instead of the fixed fiber glass cover.

Without Bill's cockpit addition, the aft deck of the DD's was ok but kinda lacking in usability. Bill's idea for the cockpit really adds to the DDs.

The YW photos don't have close up images of the cockpit or coverings but there are a variety of covering's shown over the cockpit.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2021/seahorse-diesel-duck-462-1175275/

Later,
Dan
 
Well, I have a lot of respect for the DD's and they are well-proven designs. However there is a lack of livability for sure. Lately I've been leaning more towards the Bruce Robert TY48 design which offers better "compromises" and at 106,000 lbs has sufficient heft. Plus the NA is willing to provide a flume tank design.
 
I am responding collectively to a few of the posts above:



With the budget proposed, although it sounds hefty, the vessel will be older vintage. Make sure you have the budget for the repairs. Even with audiogauging, not all problems can be found proactively. Migrant's owner had no idea he would be spending $1m+ for unforeseen necessary work. Now, of course I'm not saying that all older boats will require that, but just sayin...

While I am a strong proponent of steel yachts, I have concerns over the experience required for owning a vintage one.

Sage advice and much appreciated. I am a bit of a glutton for punishment and cannot seem to find any love or desire for anything that isn't at least 50 years old and on the verge of some near-disastrous breakdown that could only be found ten minutes after I power away. My most recent being the "This is only going to take a month or so" refit of a 1956 wood Seainer/Trawler. That was November but I swear I am almost done!

The work on Migrant is stunning and obvious in the scope. I honestly wish I could find a way to justify that purchase to my first mate. That is IMHO an excellent buy at that price. I agree with MAKO RE: Banshee and would have no problem putting the $$ into the boat but...
 
Have a look at Australia. A series of boats that come up now and again are the Fiddler series. They are about 55 ft Gardner powered (6LXB) a bit boxy looking but roomy, good back deck and fuel efficient. There is possibly one coming up for sale in Tasmania in the near future.

Thank you for the heads up! I have seen a few of those Fiddlers and I like them. The boxy seems to work well for them overall! Do you know much about them? How do they handle and build quality?
 
My husband and I looked at Banshee in person (just before the border closed in 2020) and boy oh boy....the pictures make her look like its not too bad...until you see it in person. It was a disaster! Imagine posting your 1990 best picture of yourself on a 2021 dating sight...pretty similar!! ha ha. I would honestly tell you to either double or triple your amount to being her back to life. They have not kept up on it at all, nothing in the systems had been started in over a year or more, the inside was molded and water damaged. While we "thought" we could bring her back to life...they were also not budging an ounce on the asking price!! We walked away and never looked back. After many MANY years of searching for our perfect boat - we knew we wanted a Diesel Duck..we found ours! Patience totally pays off...even when its frustrating and feels like so many let downs! We are 1000% in love with our "new to us" 2006 Diesel Duck 462 and cannot wait to move aboard fully in 4 years and travel the world.
 
I believe I have posted here on this forum, forgive me if it was my "other" forum, about the difficulty of surveying and repairing Gardner engines. While they are still probably arguably the most stout engine ever, service and parts are near impossible.

I would tend to disagree with Judy on this point having been a Gardner owner. Parts are available world wide. especially from Australia, UK. These are new parts and price is not out of this world. And she is right the best marine engine ever built.
The Fiddler boats were built by one couple. The fit out is pretty good, they handle well from all accounts and amazingly have a very efficient hull form as they are usually powered by a Gardner 6LXB but still do their 8 knots and burn about 14 lt/hour.
 
I believe I have posted here on this forum, forgive me if it was my "other" forum, about the difficulty of surveying and repairing Gardner engines. While they are still probably arguably the most stout engine ever, service and parts are near impossible.

I would tend to disagree with Judy on this point having been a Gardner owner. Parts are available world wide. especially from Australia, UK. These are new parts and price is not out of this world. And she is right the best marine engine ever built.
The Fiddler boats were built by one couple. The fit out is pretty good, they handle well from all accounts and amazingly have a very efficient hull form as they are usually powered by a Gardner 6LXB but still do their 8 knots and burn about 14 lt/hour.

As a current Gardner 6LXB owner/restorer my experiences match what Tidahapah just said about parts being readily available worldwide and reasonably priced so I just wanted to chime in here quickly to add to those comments.

Michael Harrison who owns and runs Gardner Marine Diesel in Canterbury England is my go to source for both parts and expert advise and I can not speak highly enough of Michael and his crew at GMD. Michael's dad spent most of his professional life working for the original Gardner company and when they went out of business he bought all the remaining inventory, equipment and machines. I've been able visit GMD several times now and would say that GMD is in many ways the "new" version of carrying on the original Gardner Co.

I purchased my original 6LXB when GMD took it in as a trade on a tug in the Thames that was repowering in a refit for a new role and they exchanged the 6LXB for an 8LXB which GMD had also rebuilt for them.

I have completely rebuilt the original engine replacing pretty much every part in it with brand new parts from GMD, other than the major castings of the heads, cylinder block, crankcase and oil sump. This included pressing in new dry liners and boring them out, new pistons, rings, valves, every bearing, gaskets, lift pump, etc. etc. so this is as close to a "new" engine as I think you can get. I keep pretty good records and my total costs for this engine came out to about the same as a new JD 6068 which I see as a very good value for what I believe will be a much longer lasting and dependable engine in our new boat mv Möbius.

A Gardner is clearly NOT the best choice for many/most boats but is definately the Goldilocks just right, just for us single main engine given use case and type of global cruising we do. Might be of interest to some that the Gardner is coupled to a Nogva HC168 servo gearbox turning our 1m OD 4 blade CPP prop which, counter to popular opinion, we found to be about the same price as fitting a standard transmission + fixed prop of equal quality, and the CPPP allows us to dial in the Goldilocks engine load for any SOG we wish.

My experiences with our Gardner similarly refute any notion that these engines are "difficult to assess or work on". Hard to find any diesel engine that is more simple and basic, which is part of what attracts me to them in the first place. Other than the 24V starter and the two massive Electrodyn alternators I'm driving with the Gardner, once started there isn't an electron to be found on this engine; no glow plugs, no electronics, even the gauges for oil temp + pressure and water temp are all simple direct reading thermometers or mechanical oil pressure gauges. Heck, I've even adapted one of the Gardner hand crank systems that was an option and I can hand start this engine if the starter should ever not be working. All normally aspirated so no turbo, fully mechanical fuel injection with priming levers, zero pressure fresh water cooling, all external copper oil lubrication pipeworks, etc. etc.

I am not trying to sell anyone on a Gardner simply showing how simple these engines are and thus how equally easy they are to work on and maintain. I can understand that many modern mechanics would find these Gardner engines "odd" and unfamiliar to the complex modern diesel engines they normally work on, but anyone who knows their way around a diesel engine will find a Gardner extremely easy to understand, test and work on.

If you are a glutton for punishment, there is WAY more info than you would ever want on the build of both the boat and the Gardner to be found in the weekly posts my wife and I have been doing for almost 4 years now of our design and build of our new eXtreme eXploration Passage Maker XPM78 at https://mobius.world

I apologize for not being able to be contributing here on TF very much for the past few years as I spend pretty much much all my waking minutes (and many sleepy ones too) finishing the building and now commissioning of our new boat/home. Hopefully there is a light at the end of this long and winding tunnel in the coming months and I will be able to contribute more to the great discussions here on TF.
 
Gardner engines:

My apologies for any misinformation I may have dispensed. Obviously I defer to the actual owners of these engines. However, my experience in the last 10 years or so with Gardners has a different perspective as a broker. It started when I had a boat with a Garner under contract and I was asked by the potential buyer to recommend a surveyor. My Gardner surveyor in FLL had died and his son had taken over his dad's business, but then he threw in the towel, so I needed to find an engine surveyor for pre-purchase survey. It became an impossible task. I did speak with Michael in England and he offered to fly to the States for survey, however, that became a humongous expense for a boat not yet purchased. I have a friend who owns a Gardner and said he could "rebuild it blindfolded" and offered to survey, but none of my insurance brokers said they would accept an uncertified survey.

While I apologize for any erroneous opinions, I still am hesitant to recommend a boat with a Gardner engine to a new purchaser who requires an engine survey. BUT, if anyone knows of a SAMS or NAMS surveyor who will do a pre-purchase survey, I will be thrilled to post a full-blown apology and reignite my enthusiasm for these great engines.
 
Gardner engines:

My apologies for any misinformation I may have dispensed. Obviously I defer to the actual owners of these engines. However, my experience in the last 10 years or so with Gardners has a different perspective as a broker. It started when I had a boat with a Garner under contract and I was asked by the potential buyer to recommend a surveyor. My Gardner surveyor in FLL had died and his son had taken over his dad's business, but then he threw in the towel, so I needed to find an engine surveyor for pre-purchase survey. It became an impossible task. I did speak with Michael in England and he offered to fly to the States for survey, however, that became a humongous expense for a boat not yet purchased. I have a friend who owns a Gardner and said he could "rebuild it blindfolded" and offered to survey, but none of my insurance brokers said they would accept an uncertified survey.

While I apologize for any erroneous opinions, I still am hesitant to recommend a boat with a Gardner engine to a new purchaser who requires an engine survey. BUT, if anyone knows of a SAMS or NAMS surveyor who will do a pre-purchase survey, I will be thrilled to post a full-blown apology and reignite my enthusiasm for these great engines.

Thanks for this thoughtful clarification Judy of the specifics and context of your situation which makes your original comments completely understandable and definately no apology needed or appropriate.

My perspective is completely different and simply that of someone who has gotten to know Gardner LXB engines "up close and personal" for the past few years and wanting to add my comments from this perspective and experience.

Thanks again for all your well articulated comments based on your first hand experiences from this perspective of dealing with engine surveys.
 
With the fairly decent number of these engines present from the Columbia River northward to Alaska, there has to be more than one surveyor who insurance and finance companies find acceptable from that region of the US - and BC. I know we had one Gardner-powered passagemaker purchased by a member here within the last year that went through a survey in Puget Sound, perhaps they'll chime in.

Expensive for an East Coaster I'm sure.
 
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With the fairly decent number of these engines present from the Columbia River northward to Alaska, there has to be more than one surveyor who insurance and finance companies find acceptable from that region of the US - and BC. I know we had one Gardner-powered passagemaker purchased by a member here within the last year that went through a survey in Puget Sound, perhaps they'll chime in.

Expensive for an East Coaster I'm sure.


Not sure if you are speaking of me or not, but we purchased our Beebe Passagemaker the end of January of this year. It has a Gardner 8LXB. Sellers had owned the boat for 31 years. We looked far and wide, and couldn't find anyone who claimed to be an expert on Gardners. One Diesel Engine repair shop/surveyor in Anacortes, WA asked me if I had the name right, as he had never heard of a "Gardner" diesel engine . . . I thanked him for his time and moved on.:whistling:
We never did find a "Gardner" conversant engine surveyor, but I did spend some time on the phone with Michael in England. I provided him with the engine serial number, and he provided me with a list of parts that had been purchased by the seller over the last couple of decades, filters, injectors, and specialty gaskets constituted the bulk of the purchases. He couldn't give me a lot of information on the early history of the engine except to tell me it had a build date in 1978, which jibed with the boat completion date of 1982. Apparently there was a short time period around that time and for a decade or so after when they kept all their records on computers, with no paper backups, and somehow the records were lost. That's as I understood it, but I but I could have gotten it wrong. The Seller bought all new injectors from Michael in 2008, and then sent the old ones to England for rebuild, got them back in less than 3 weeks, including shipping time both ways. I think that's pretty phenomenal! I queried Michael on the availability of a small list of parts I had come up with, things like injectors, oil pump, starter, etc that I felt may give me an indication of availability. He said all were available from him anywhere in the US within 7 days of order, and also said that some of the items were available from other sources in the US with overnight delivery. He pretty much dispelled any of our concerns on the availability of parts.
For the engine survey, we relied on the regular surveyor since my insurance policy didn't require a separate engine surveyor. We DID however hire the mechanic who has maintained the boat for the last 25 years for a day and we crawled around the innards, and reviewed logbook entries on maintenance accomplished, plus we did fluid samples, etc. We felt satisfied that we hit all the high points regarding the mechanical condition of engine/drivetrain, probably much more thoroughly than an off the shelf surveyor would have done. We probably won't get to the boat for any extended cruising until the end of this month, so we can't speak to a lot of operational experience as of yet. More to follow!:dance::dance:


Oh, forgot to note, Teka III recently sold in PNW. She has a Gardner 6LXB which has taken the owners around the world, and across the Atlantic at least 5 times with, from my understanding, nary a hiccup. That's a pretty good recommendation in my book!
 
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