Survey required for insurance

We are set to close on our new to us Formula 41PC tomorrow. In preparation I called Boat/US to get a binder on the boat. We did all the routine questions and they said they had everything they needed. I asked where to send the survey and they answered that no survey was needed. Interesting. I wonder if that is what others are finding at this time. When we bought our last boat they did want a survey and must have actually read it since they asked me to correct the problems the surveyor found.

We had the same experience when we bought our boat in May Dave. They didn’t even ask about a survey.

It surprised me. In the past they have always asked for a survey. Back in 2001 we bought a boat and they asked me to do a self survey and fill out a form. But later they said that that policy had gone away.

Probably depends on insurer and age of boat. A recent survey (< 6 months old) was required last time I bought a boat (2 years ago).

It is a 1998. Geico/Boat/US insurance.

It seems to vary. Some need a survey within 2 years, some will take one 3 or 4 years old, some might be even less fussy. I'm not really sure what drives that decision.

Comodave said:

It is a 1998. Geico/Boat/US insurance.

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Bought a 2004 Donelle and same thing Gieco/Boat/US insurance - no survey needed.



What was interesting to me is I was bringing the boat from Key West to NJ - I told them I had a friend who was a captain and he was going to help me bring the boat back. They said if you are paying him we will not allow it - but if he is your friend no issues... WTH? So I told them ok he is my friend and I am not paying him - cough cough cough... They said have fun no problems...

Comodave said:

It is a 1998. Geico/Boat/US insurance.

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Be wary- GEICO currently has a requirement for a survey after a vessel is 20 years of age. Do you have it in writing that there is no survey requirement for your 1998 vessel?

I have a survey. I also have the policy from them. I was surprised that they didn’t want it, but we will see if they eventually ask for one. The only thing of consequence that came up on the survey was the halon wasn’t currently certified, but I had already told the surveyor that. They are coming tomorrow to certify the halon system.

My last boat purchased in 2018 (16 years old) Geico required the survey but my larger upgraded boat purchased in 2020 (8 years old) they didn’t ask for a copy of the survey. Not sure if their policy changed or because my latest boat was newer they didn’t require the survey. &#55358;&#56596;

My current boat (new construction) didn't require a survey (Chubb) but the previous boat (also new and I think that first policy was also Chubb or ACE) did require a survey.

I'm expecting to have to get a survey on my current boat if I change carriers.

Comodave said:

I have a survey. I also have the policy from them. I was surprised that they didn’t want it, but we will see if they eventually ask for one. The only thing of consequence that came up on the survey was the halon wasn’t currently certified, but I had already told the surveyor that. They are coming tomorrow to certify the halon system.

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Two things...

1. Considering the recent changes that Geico has come forward with, consider yourself lucky that you even GOT a policy. I would also tell you to expect your premium to double or even nearly triple next year.

2. Who do you call to get a halon system certified? Our halon system is 13lb 11oz and was MFG in 1995. Although everything still lights up and shows its on, I have no idea what condition its really and have no clue how to go about getting it certified.

We needed at the least an in water survey on our 1969 steel custom built for insurance. We had it done about a month ago.

I am with you Dave. That seems strange.
When I bought Pilitak, the insurer not only wanted a survey done, but REQUIRED that I address ALL items listed by the surveyor, not just the high priority or safety items (of which there were few). That surveyor even wanted the factory "prewiring" for possible air conditioning either removed or "capped off". The wires were neatly coiled up and connected to nothing at both ends but the insurance company wanted it "dealt with" anyway because "the surveyor mentioned it".

Did you take a note out on the vessel? The bank would typically want a survey as well. If the insurance company sees the lien from the bank, they could assume that the bank has already requested a survey.

Just speculation.

I talked with Geico directly. They will no longer work through individual agencies.
I currently have a Geico policy. I asked about renewing it and was told, first I have to cancel the existing policy to get a new quote. (anyone smelling fish, besides me?)
I'm not worried until the end of the year. By then my agent should come up with an alternative.
For those who have Geico through WestMarine, better call and check. I think there are new restrictions and limited insurance.

OldDan1943 said:

I talked with Geico directly. They will no longer work through individual agencies.
I currently have a Geico policy. I asked about renewing it and was told, first I have to cancel the existing policy to get a new quote. (anyone smelling fish, besides me?)
I'm not worried until the end of the year. By then my agent should come up with an alternative.
For those who have Geico through WestMarine, better call and check. I think there are new restrictions and limited insurance.

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Interesting- GEICO advised us independent agents that they would NOT go after the agent's customers, but would refer the insured back to their agency.

The plot gets thicker...

Pau Hana said:

Interesting- GEICO advised us independent agents that they would NOT go after the agent's customers, but would refer the insured back to their agency.

The plot gets thicker...

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Yes, it does thicken. Helps explain the, 'you must first cancel your existing policy.'

We have had our boat insurance with Boat/US for probably 40 years and have had no issues with them. I understand that it is somewhat different now with Geico. Our rates have gone up some years and not others. I am not concerned that they will double or triple.

I assumed that they would want the survey, the bank did, but Boat/US said they didn’t need it. Ok, if they want it down the line I have it. It just seemed strange so I posted this thread to see what others are experiencing.

Last boat that we bought they did want a survey and asked me to correct the safety issues within a month or so. This survey the only real issue is the halon not being current. Most people don’t realize that they are supposed to be checked each year. The surveyor on our last boat when he did the survey for the buyer was astonished that the halon system was current. He said it was the first one he had found in over 10 years that was current. It was current because I had it checked each year. The problem is where we live there are no places to get it checked. (Maybe a business opportunity). So I would take it to Detroit to have it checked. The seller of our new boat has a company coming this afternoon to certify the system. The boat is in the Detroit area so there are companies there to do the check. We are heading out shortly to go to the boat and run it home tomorrow. It is about 150 miles so it should take about 6 hours tomorrow to get it home.

We just needed liability only (300k) for our marina. We couldn’t couldn’t get liability only. For our insurance we had to get a minimum 40k boat policy to get liability, that’s why we needed the survey.

Pau Hana said:

Interesting- GEICO advised us independent agents that they would NOT go after the agent's customers, but would refer the insured back to their agency.

The plot gets thicker...

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"Go after" is the phrase of importance. I take that to mean they won't actively solicit. However, a customer like Old Dan calls and asks the representative how he can continue with Geico, I'm not surprised a representative tells him that he'd have to cancel and then apply for one. That is basically, we won't quote you or switch you while you have coverage under us, but if you have no coverage then we will as a new customer.

I think they're walking a fine line. It reminds me of a friend who just got the new customer rate from their cable company. They got a representative who told them if they canceled, turned in their equipment, then there was no required wait. They could buy as a new customer the following day. I think some require 30 days but this one didn't.

Unfortunately, the Geico move reminds me too much of when airlines started cutting back the commission they paid travel agents, which they ultimately eliminated. Their goal was to pay no commissions, but keep all the sales. Geico won't directly steal the customers but it's sure within their goal to end up with them all one day.

I have all my portable fire extinguishers and my ER auto system checked each year. There are companies who will come visit your boat and perform the necessary checks.
Just gotta phrase the search right to get a list of those in the marine business.

OldDan1943 said:

I talked with Geico directly. They will no longer work through individual agencies.
I currently have a Geico policy. I asked about renewing it and was told, first I have to cancel the existing policy to get a new quote. (anyone smelling fish, besides me?)
I'm not worried until the end of the year. By then my agent should come up with an alternative.
For those who have Geico through WestMarine, better call and check. I think there are new restrictions and limited insurance.

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Also, with the GEICO changes regarding independent agents- be hyper vigilant in ensuring your policy DOES NOT LAPSE for nonpayment- they will not reinstate.

Comodave said:

Most people don’t realize that they are supposed to be checked each year. The surveyor on our last boat when he did the survey for the buyer was astonished that the halon system was current. He said it was the first one he had found in over 10 years that was current. It was current because I had it checked each year.

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Please expand on this.

What does “checked” mean?

What is a “current” system?

I am aware that companies inspect, weigh, certify, etc. various fire suppression systems for a cost. I am not arguing the value or sensibility of this.

Please cite the REQUIREMENT that these be checked or current, assuming a recreational vessel which most of us operate.

Wishing you safe passage today.

Thanks

firehoser75 said:

...the insurer not only wanted a survey done, but REQUIRED that I address ALL items listed by the surveyor...That surveyor even wanted the factory "prewiring" for possible air conditioning either removed or "capped off". The insurance company wanted it "dealt with" anyway because "the surveyor mentioned it".

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Curious to know who the surveyor and insurer were. Might their relationship have been a factor? Of course, you'd likely never know.

My last 2 insurance companies wanted the related survey safety suggestions followed. I picked the surveyor, but most good ones that have been around awhile are on record in the insurance business...maybe even on a "suggested/acceptable" list.



Because some are newer requirements and my boat is 30 years old and insured as such... I was able to convince the insurance companies that several too complicated, expensive, unrealistic or plain silly and the insurance company said OK to ignore (written response was requested).


On such was the surveyor's boilerplate sections suggested that I take a boating safety course (he even knew my backgound...but it was in his boilerplate)...the insurers knew I taught the course for 15 years and also captains licensing...they agreed it was a silly entry and helped me with convincing the unrealistic nature of a few more.


The easy and inexpensive suggestions I complied with.

Congrats on your new boat, how about some pictures as you always suggest

The last two boats that I purchased did not require surveys. I have liability set at 500K and replacement value equal to my purchase price.

I insured through progressive this spring on a boat that is new to me, but far from new (41 years old) and they did not require a survey, I was a bit surprised. My local insurance agent (not marine specific) did shop around and did eventually find a under-writer but this was after my desired closing date so I went with progressive directly in the mean time. The policy my local agent was able to find offered similar coverage at a better rate but had strict requirements about the timeliness of addressing all of the survey findings. The logistics of getting the boat hauled, repairs completed and the surveyor scheduled to verify all within this time period led me to stick with progressive for this season. The repairs are complete now but I would have missed that underwriter's timeline so I will reassess coverage options next spring.

I have not heard great things about progressive but it was a path of least resistance to get things up and running for us this season. I'm planning to have my surveyor verify all of my repairs this fall when the boat comes out of the water for storage and shop around for better coverage for next season.

soin2la said:

Curious to know who the surveyor and insurer were. Might their relationship have been a factor? Of course, you'd likely never know.

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The surveyor was a US based surveyor (from what I found about him was that he had been surveying for quite a while with a good reputation) as the transaction took place in La Connor, Wash. and I imported the boat to Canada. The insurance company and the surveyor did not appear to even be familar with one another, that I was aware of. The insurance company was Special Risk Insurance Managers (Marine Insurance) and my broker was Johnston Meier Insurance Group.

On the insurance papers:
"**WARRANTED all survey recommendations from the September 12, 2016 survey and September 8, 2016 mechanical inspection have been fully complied with**"
The surveyor, stated to me, at the time of survey, that in his over 25 years of surveying, for it's age, this boat was in the best condition of any he had ever surveyed.

He listed a total of 16 recommendations most of which consisted of: outdated flares and fire extinguishers, anchor light bulb burned out, horn not working, the seller had a 1lb propane bottle in the laz., the coiled, not connected prewires, spare shore power cable showed slight signs of arcing, windshield washer not working, etc. There was only one recommendation listed as a "Priority Item" that was to do with some moisture found in the salon roof overhang that acts as the roof over the cockpit. The largest "other item" listed was to change out the bellows on the PSS shaft seal due to being unable to determine it's age. It was in good condition with no sign of leaks or any deterioration. He stated precautionary only due to manufacturer's recommendation for 6 year replacement maintenance.
I had every intention of rectifying almost all of the "issues" ASAP anyway. I did wait one year before doing the PSS, but did the others that first winter or early spring.

IRENE said:

Please expand on this.

What does “checked” mean?

What is a “current” system?

I am aware that companies inspect, weigh, certify, etc. various fire suppression systems for a cost. I am not arguing the value or sensibility of this.

Please cite the REQUIREMENT that these be checked or current, assuming a recreational vessel which most of us operate.

Wishing you safe passage today.

Thanks

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I didn’t say there is a requirement. They are supposed to be checked each year and have a hydrostatic test by a licensed professional every 12 years if memory serves me.