anchor bridle

Good afternoon
I have a 1997 Mainship 350. There are 2 cleats at the bow of this boat but nothing down the center to tie off an anchor line. I did not want the windlass to have the strain of the anchor nor did I like to be off center by using just the port or starboard cleat.
I made a 3 point bridle out of 5/8 three strand line. A loop at each end to attach to the bow cleats and an eye in the center to take a hook. I know how to use it with a hook to chain connection. What method should I use to attach it to my 5/8 inch three strand anchor line when I am too deep for chain only. I have 100ft of chain with 350 feet of three strand anchor line.
Thanks
Jim

When I had a combination chain/fiber rode (and today with 100% chain), I used a braided snubber made out of six feet of 5/8" twisted nylon, Using an icicle hitch or a rolling hitch, the snubber would hold chain or fiber rode equally well. You can attach the braided snubber to the apex of your bridle or use two longer braided snubbers, one from each bow cleat. To make one, just unravel the last six feet of the three strands and have the person in your life familiar with braiding hair show you how to braid the strands back together. No shackles, hooks and and other junk on the end of the line.

I saw a lot of 5/8" bridles in the PNW but that is way too big for a boat less than 50ft.
You want the bridle to stretch.
1/2" is plenty.
You won't break 1/2" nylon and really it doesn't matter at all if you do.
We are happy with a hook on to chain from the bridle but I saw a clever idea recently to use a short loop to hold the chain, then use a snap shackle from the bridle on to the loop.
Bridles are easier and more effective to run on a catamaran with more width between the cleats. Just wonderful to ease the strain and stop the yaw at anchor.

The legs or arms of my bridle do not have a loop. This way I can adjust the length of the arms, if necessary to keep it into the wind. This includes reaching the mid ship cleats tool.

Per securing the anchor rode to the windless, I question the wisdom in that. Put the strain on the bridle and two cleats.
If course, once the anchor is 'home', you should have away to secure it to prevent accidental deployment.

I agree with Darkside. If you using a two leg bridle, 1/2” nylon 3-strand should be plenty strong enough and give you the stretch you want. Granted, if you already have a 5/8” 3 strand rode, you are getting plenty of stretch.

I use two 1/2” length of three strand. Each is 20’ so when conditions warrant, I can have quite a long bridle. Lots of ways to attach it to your rode. I would use a dynema loop of some type and a shackle.

OldDan1943 said:

The legs or arms of my bridle do not have a loop. This way I can adjust the length of the arms, if necessary to keep it into the wind. This includes reaching the mid ship cleats tool.

Per securing the anchor rode to the windless, I question the wisdom in that. Put the strain on the bridle and two cleats.
If course, once the anchor is 'home', you should have away to secure it to prevent accidental deployment.

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I do not want to secure the anchor rode to the windlass. That is why i made a bridle. I need to secure the anchor rode ( 5/8 three strand) to the eye in the bridle.

jclays said:

I do not want to secure the anchor rode to the windlass. That is why i made a bridle. I need to secure the anchor rode ( 5/8 three strand) to the eye in the bridle.

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You can use something like this. I have made them and they work quite well.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/davi...SYfYpnIMaHfnpghcxGVVelyzSYNCa_WUaAs3hEALw_wcB

I went to Tiffanies (AKA West Marine) and purchased the Davis line grabbers. Looks like a winner. So simple.

Splice an eye in the bridle pendant and connect the rode to it using a sheet bend. It won’t come loose but is easy to trip.

On our last boat, a 41’ President, I used a 2 leg bridle made out of 1/2” 3 strand with black mooring compensators in each leg to give more stretch. IMO a 2 leg 5/8” bridle is too large for the 350/390. It won’t stretch that much. We had a flat plate, I don’t know the brand, that had a slot in it to fit onto the chain. It worked well.

Comodave said:

On our last boat, a 41’ President, I used a 2 leg bridle made out of 1/2” 3 strand with black mooring compensators in each leg to give more stretch. IMO a 2 leg 5/8” bridle is too large for the 350/390. It won’t stretch that much. We had a flat plate, I don’t know the brand, that had a slot in it to fit onto the chain. It worked well.

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We use this:

That looks like what I had.

Comodave said:

On our last boat, a 41’ President, I used a 2 leg bridle made out of 1/2” 3 strand with black mooring compensators in each leg to give more stretch. IMO a 2 leg 5/8” bridle is too large for the 350/390. It won’t stretch that much. We had a flat plate, I don’t know the brand, that had a slot in it to fit onto the chain. It worked well.

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I'm using the bridle just to center the anchor line. I do not have anywhere to tie off my anchor line except a port or starboard bow cleat.
I have a combination anchor rode setup with mostly 5/8 three strand. I should have plenty of stretch.

hi,

we're on a pilot 34. we use 2 lengths of 1/2" 3 strand. i did eye splices around a thimble then i spliced a 1/2" "pigtail" onto the thimble. we have chain & 3 strand rode and a rolling hitch works well. loose ends allow adjustment at bow cleats to center/ compensate.

Benchmark said:

https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-anchor-knowledgebase/snubbersbridles/

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+1 for Mantus Bridle

I use on my Marlow Pilot M32

Agree with above comments about the use and benefits of anchor bridles. I use this chain hook from UltraMarine:

https://ultramarinewest.com/products/ultra-chain-grab

Outfitted with dual ropes, it makes an excellent bridle, which has withstood some very windy conditions. Easy to deploy and slides off when tension released.

Another advantage of a bridle is to work loose a stuck anchor without putting any strain on your bow pulpit or roller. Sometimes you need to transfer the lifting forces away from the pulpit...

I assume you're aware that with a bridle as you decrease the angle the capacity of the line is reduced. A 30 degree angle of the bridle increases the tension by 2, hence 5/8 nylon having a breaking strength of about 8800lbs. is reduced to 4400lbs, At 45 degrees the factor is 1.414. In rigging we normally use 60 degrees for slings.

Fish53 said:

I assume you're aware that with a bridle as you decrease the angle the capacity of the line is reduced. A 30 degree angle of the bridle increases the tension by 2, hence 5/8 nylon having a breaking strength of about 8800lbs. is reduced to 4400lbs, At 45 degrees the factor is 1.414. In rigging we normally use 60 degrees for slings.

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I'm confused. I understand that a line that is bent has less breaking strength. I'm not sure I understand in the context of the bridle? Unless you are thinking about the chain hook that Cheeckako linked. If you splice around that chain hook, the rope will be bent around at a very small radius. That would drastically reduce the breaking strength at that point.



Is that was you were referring to, or is there another bend you were addressing?

dhays said:

I'm confused. I understand that a line that is bent has less breaking strength. I'm not sure I understand in the context of the bridle? Unless you are thinking about the chain hook that Cheeckako linked. If you splice around that chain hook, the rope will be bent around at a very small radius. That would drastically reduce the breaking strength at that point.



Is that was you were referring to, or is there another bend you were addressing?

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This is a sling angle illustration but a bridle will have the same effect. Whenever a rope is subjected to an angle some fibers take more strain and others take less or none reducing the stress capacity of the line. You may also want to consider strength reduction of associated knots, most knots and bends reduce line strength by between 25 and 50%, splices only reduce by 10 to 15%. I think I should point out for clarification, by angle I don't mean bent I mean when the strain is not concentric with the center of the line for any reason.

If I can remember some class I had and if I remember correctly.....while true the load on the line increases depending on the geometry, but the breaking strength of the line//wire doesn't overall, just at turns, knots, etc.

I use a bridle on my mooring pennant for my 26 foot boat and I use 1 inch nylon at about an 80 degree angle.

psneeld said:

If I can remember some class I had and if I remember correctly.....while true the load on the line increases depending on the geometry, but the breaking strength of the line//wire doesn't overall, just at turns, knots, etc.

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I'm sorry but you would be incorrect, it's not just a function of geometry but also of the structure of the line as well. The line used has a diameter thus the inside of the angle has less distance than the outside so the stress is not concentric within the fibers of the line. The inside fibers take most of the stress obviously over far fewer fibers effectively making the line smaller. This is the same reason knots weaken line and why generally it's best to estimate knots as a 50% reduction in strength. Obviously this varies to a degree due to a number of factors but in rigging it's necessary to maintain a safety factor. I work more with wire rope than fiber in rigging deck gear and cranes but the concept is the same. Easy solution here is get bigger line if calculations warrant.

Apparently it is a fine line between the selected diameter of the bridle line and its ability to prevent a chain shock to the boat.
I guess we should all use 2 inch line and suffer the chain shock because the 2 inch line is too large to stretch and prevent shock on the average boat. SARCASM

Perhaps we should consider the bridle a disposable item?? If it breaks under strain, make or buy a new one, MAYBE a 1/16 larger realizing if it is too big there will be no stretch value.

But as always, your money, your boat.

OldDan1943 said:

Apparently it is a fine line between the selected diameter of the bridle line and its ability to prevent a chain shock to the boat.
I guess we should all use 2 inch line and suffer the chain shock because the 2 inch line is too large to stretch and prevent shock.

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Or you could do a little math to calculate load and size things so they work for you, or rig a kellet to take up shock or any one of several other methods.

OK....I see the discuusion....sure there are working load reductions to a bridle (most any rigging) for a variety of reasons.

I was trying to keep a simple thought there....but it will just get complicated.

Yes, knots and splices and different components all working on each other definitely need to be taken into account if preparing for worst case.

Fish53 said:

This is a sling angle illustration but a bridle will have the same effect. Whenever a rope is subjected to an angle some fibers take more strain and others take less or none reducing the stress capacity of the line. You may also want to consider strength reduction of associated knots, most knots and bends reduce line strength by between 25 and 50%, splices only reduce by 10 to 15%. I think I should point out for clarification, by angle I don't mean bent I mean when the strain is not concentric with the center of the line for any reason.

View attachment 119659

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I understand now. That makes sense. I think for most of us though, the bridle lines are attached to a cleat or hawse hole so the bends around the cleat are when the bending occurs. In my case, that is the weakest point of the system since the other end has a thimble spliced into it for the chain end attachment.

psneeld said:

OK....sure there are working load reductions to a bridle (most any rigging) for a variety of reasons.

I was trying to keep a simple thought there....but it will just get complicated.

Yes, knots and splices and different components all working on each other definitely need to be taken into account if preparing for worst case.

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I've struggled with this simplification thing since I've been on here. I get that most folks lack either the time or inclination to delve into this stuff in such depth, you're all here for recreation after all and this isn't your career so why make it into work. This is why I make suggestions like here, this was my career.

dhays said:

I understand now. That makes sense. I think for most of us though, the bridle lines are attached to a cleat or hawse hole so the bends around the cleat are when the bending occurs. In my case, that is the weakest point of the system since the other end has a thimble spliced into it for the chain end attachment.

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You're not getting it correctly, assume you lose 10% at each splice and depending on the angle you lose another 25% you've lost 45% of the lines strength. It's the angle of pull or stress on the line which isn't directly in line with the load plus the lose at each splice. I have no idea of the total weight of your boat or the surge stress placed on the gear you anticipate so I certainly can't estimate any specs but a 25,000 lb. boat in 30kts of wind can exert over half it's total weight in stress on a maximum surge in open water. Oddly a single line rigged with either a float or a kellet will retain almost all of it's strength, which of course brings up deck fittings which will take up another thread. Honestly to me a bridle seems an unnecessary complication unless there's an issue on deck. I should add that cleats and chocks also reduce line strength as a knot does, 50%.

Quick and simple https://www.animatedknots.com/safety