VHF Power

I know there are many radio experts here, so can someone explain the reasoning behind 1W/25W transmit options? I get the fact that you don't want to be transmitting 25W to talk to someone nearby, but why 1W? I think something like 5W/25W makes more sense. I rarely use 1W because I often don't get an answer even when fairly close to a marina I am hailing. Maybe doesn't even break through their squelch level. My handheld has 1/5/6W options that make sense to me, but I don't get the 1W option on my main VHF.

If i use 25 W when calling for a bridge opening, my 55’ high antenna will cause every bridge-tenders radio to unsquelch for a couple dozen mile radius.
So, this is the rationale for the FCC legal requirement for “no more than 1Watt on low power” position.

diver dave said:

If i use 25 W when calling for a bridge opening, my 55’ high antenna will cause every bridge-tenders radio to unsquelch for a couple dozen mile radius.
So, this is the rationale for the FCC legal requirement for “no more than 1Watt on low power” position.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I didn't realize it was a FCC requirement, but I knew there must be a reason. Most of us don't have 55' antennas so the 1W option is not very useful at times and I'm forced to use 25W when I'd prefer not to. Too bad they can't have a 1/5/25 selection or something like that.

I find the usefulness of 1W varies. If there's a good bit of tall stuff around, not a clear line of sight, or the other station is a handheld, 1W range tends to be pretty poor (sometimes only a 1/4 mile). But other times, even with my antennas only being just under 17' off the water, 1W is good for a couple of miles.

In the NY Canals, the locktenders pretty much all use handheld VHFs. And they use channel 13, so low power only. In some places, I can talk to them from a mile away with no problem. In other places, the geography of the surrounding land, sources of potential interference or signal blockage, etc. are such that I'm practically within shouting distance before I can get a response.

1W on VHF will carry up to 5 miles with any decent antenna. It’s supposed to be line-of-sight comms only. 25W is for everything else.

If you are calling bridges, locks and commercial traffic that are clearly in sight with 1 watt and having trouble...it's your radio or antenna/connections.


Marinas are a different story...there are many reasons they are not answering you.

Marinas answer their telephones. Try calling them on that.

alormaria said:

Marinas answer their telephones. Try calling them on that.

Click to expand...

It's much easier to deal with marinas on VHF especially if they are working the docks with a handheld and giving you directions. A cell phone wouldn't work for that. I'm trying to make a point that I would prefer to use 1W when appropriate, but if it not reliable, then there is no point. Even handhelds transmit at 5W or more, albeit with a much smaller antenna, but if trying to hail a marina for instance on ch9 or 16 when you are entering a harbor but not yet close to the docks, I find 1W to be less than 100% useful and 25W to be overkill, hence my original question. If it's an FCC regulation, I get it. I'm going by what I have experienced so no need to debate what is the "right" thing to do.

If it makes the argument better for you: Your HH radio antenna has a gain factor of MINUS 10 dB or so. That mAkes the 5 W transmitter have as much authority as a 0.5 W radio with just a simple dipole antenna.

I have been dealing with marinas on the phone for many years and many miles.


The important thing is you get most of the important info there if you can.


If they insist on calling them when you get close...most have someone that will assist you on a handheld so don't bother till you are in the hole stretch and even then, have the phone number ready to say you have tried on the radio with "no joy".



It really isn't a bug deal unless you are coming in under duress.

I agree that if you need info about a marina, a phone works great as does the internet or a recent cruising guide. I'm talking about approaching a marina where you are getting specific guidance to your slip assignment. I was recently at a large marina in Montauk, NY where there were several boats arriving simultaneously and all being coordinated by the dockmaster. That can't happen easily by phone.

diver dave said:

If it makes the argument better for you: Your HH radio antenna has a gain factor of MINUS 10 dB or so. That mAkes the 5 W transmitter have as much authority as a 0.5 W radio with just a simple dipole antenna.

Click to expand...

By the same token, doesn't the HH antenna affect reception strength? What does it do to my 1W transmission from my boat?

backinblue said:

I agree that if you need info about a marina, a phone works great as does the internet or a recent cruising guide. I'm talking about approaching a marina where you are getting specific guidance to your slip assignment. I was recently at a large marina in Montauk, NY where there were several boats arriving simultaneously and all being coordinated by the dockmaster. That can't happen easily by phone.

Click to expand...

For me I am happy to get a slip assignment by phone. Sometimes they have a marina map online, if not I get a quick description of where the dock/slip is. As far as I am concerned that's all I need if they will let me dock by myself.


But even then it's not easy on the radio if you have several captains at the same time getting help...and the point is you are close enough for 1W to work or your radio/systems are inadequate.

psneeld said:

For me I am happy to get a slip assignment by phone. Sometimes they have a marina map online, if not I get a quick description of where the dock/slip is. As far as I am concerned that's all I need if they will let me dock by myself.


But even then it's not easy on the radio if you have several captains at the same time getting help...and the point is you are close enough for 1W to work or your radio/systems are inadequate.

Click to expand...

It may be different where you are, but many marinas I go to when cruising, don't assign a physical slip until you arrive, and even then it may change on the fly. It happened to me last week. VHF is more convenient than having to make multiple phone calls. And in order for VHF to work properly at any power requires both a transmitting and receiving radio to be working and setup adequately.

OK fine...but if your VHF isn't working on 1W when a mile or two from the marina....I suggest you get a pro to check it out.


It is not that 1W is the trouble, it's something else.

psneeld said:

OK fine...but if your VHF isn't working on 1W when a mile or two from the marina....I suggest you get a pro to check it out.


It is not that 1W is the trouble, it's something else.

Click to expand...

I never said it wasn't working and it's easy enough to check with other boats. I only said that I don't always get a reliable response. Maybe the 16 y.o. on the dock has his squelch turned way up. No need for hostility, the main reason for my question was why 1W or 25W and not something in between like 5W and I got that answer as being an FCC regulation so that answers what I was really wanting to know. I don't need instructions on how to contact a marina.

Because 1 want should be all you need.

There are a lot of reasons for an unreliable response from a marina. 1W is a possible cause but not normal. We could make a long list…

You get more replies to VHF hails if you have a young woman make the call.

I'd say the reason you can't raise the marina is your choice of channels. I know that it is different in other areas but in south west coastal British Columbia marinas are on 66A and aren't allowed to use any other channels. Anyone calling a marina on 09 or 16 is not going to get any marina in these waters if the dock hand is following the rules.

There are exceptions for every rule. I don't know of any instances but I understand that some municipal (government) marinas in our local waters may be assigned a different channel. Your Sailing Directions book or Radio Aids to Marine Navigation book should give you the information.

I seem to recall when the USCG's System 21 was being introduced it was supposed to have an effective range of 20 miles for a 1 watt transmitter 6 feet off the water. Granted the CG station probably has a massive antenna, but it means that a 1 watt transmitter is expected to be able to reach 20 miles if no interference.

1 watt is perfect when communicating locally.

For example calling your buddy fishing nearby, or communicating with your tender.

No need to have everyone within a zillion miles listening.

Thanks. It varies where I am. Some marinas are reachable on a working channel that they choose and publicize. Others want you to hail them on 9 or 16 and then direct you to another channel once contact is made.

Again, to clarify and get back on topic, my problem is not really with marinas, i was just scratching my head over the 1W setting. It didn't make sense to me why 1W was chosen and then I learned it is an FCC regulation.

Back to marinas, if I am close, I will often try 1W. If I get no response, I'll switch to 25W. I'm not just talking about when you are practically at their docks, but sometimes when I am entering a harbor and still 10 mins from arrival and they are not exactly in line of sight.

A big downside to 1W in heav vhf traffic areas is it will be constantly stepped on and might make the transmission chopped up enough the marina doesn't return the call.

psneeld said:

A big downside to 1W in heav vhf traffic areas is it will be constantly stepped on and might make the transmission chopped up enough the marina doesn't return the call.

Click to expand...

Agreed. And if the person listening at the marina is using a handheld while standing in a forest of sailboat masts, plus add some trees between them and the boat just entering the harbor and they may not hear anything at all.

Simple:


If you can see the boat or marina you are talking to: 1 watt
If you can't see them: 25 watt.


Remember: Most radios will switch 16 back to high power every time the operator or scan function returns to it from another channel. Please always check your power level before hailing or answering a boat you can see.

More marinas than I would like simply don't answer the VHF regardless of what channel you call on. My current one does, but the one I was at for ten years did not. In fact, they unhooked the VHF to move stuff around and never reconnected it. I learned to call them on the phone if I wanted docking help.

We recently returned from a nearly three month cruise and were unable to reach marinas for docking instructions several times.

The Coasties limit the power on some frequencies.

To get more power use a sail boat style whip with a coil at the base, mounted as high as you can, and the really thick antenna cable for the least power loss.

To chat with friends , with a bit of privacy,if you switch to International you will find channels not used in the USA.

This is a bit of thread drift, but anybody else notice that some shoreside agencies don't follow the 1-Watt/25-Watt rule? For example, there are times we can hear the Cape Cod Canal Control folks on channel 13 way up in Maine. I'm not talking about some rare skip, it's clear they're using very high power.

Along the same lines, with the new Rescue 21 system the Coast Guard can broadcast simultaneously on all the transmitters in their region. So we have to listen through the call for a dinghy adrift in, say, Boston, when we're hundreds of miles away. I get it, give a young kid a big red button that lets them talk to the whole East Coast, and of course they're going to press it! I just chuckle and ignore it. But it shows that the OP's point; the whole VHF marine band system is pretty obsolete.

Like others have said 1W should get you a few miles. That is of course if the receivers are not turned volume down, squelch up higher to cut out all the 25W chatter from 25 miles away. I think all radios should default to 1W and you have to choose 25W if not heard.
Guilty of higher squelch, low volume as CG broadcast overcomes it, as does any boat which can be seen