RV ac advice sought

Seaweed needs a "real" ac versus the wall-banger I've been using for several years. I picked the new (to me) 13.5k btu unit from Dometic. The one I chose was lighter weight (70 pounds) than the standard version that is over 100 poundss. Another bonus is that it fits between the two Bucky solar panels.

So I ordered it from http://rvpartscountry.com

Deep breath... tale of woe follows.

The bottom half (controls) arrived fine. The upper part, along with the heating element (missing that part) was dropped off. The box was open. Plastic that normally covers the unit was under it. Item arrived on its side. All four sides of the box said THIS SIDE UP with arrows.

Nope. My concern was that this thing sat on edge for the entire transport and vibration killed something inside. I'd paid for extra insurance to make sure there were no problems. Company wanted pictures. In process of doing that something was rattling inside.

They did accept the return. I have not received a refund. Yet.

So...

#1) Do I attempt to purchase a duplicate, or get one (if possible) from http://rvpartscountry.com ? I do have the serial number so they cannot send me back the same one even if they remove whatever rattled.

Do I look for one from another seller?

IMPORTANT to know. The 13.5 is being discontinued, replaced with a 15k. The price for the compete 13.5 (albeit broken) was $900. I've been quoted $1400 for the 15k and am not certain that includes the inside controls.

So, do I continue with what is essentially an obsolete unit... IF I can even locate same? Do I wait for Dometic to get the 15k in stock (possibly August)

I do not know the footprint of the 15 version. If it is wider it won't fit between the solar panels. ARGH.

So what should I do? At time of ordering I did not know the 13.5 was being discontinued. The 15k is $500 more, though I do not want to be penny wise and pound foolish.

What would you do if you were me? And thanks for reading this.

I know this isn't exactly what you asked, but have you considered a mini-split system? They tend to be less expensive and more efficient than an RV unit. The mounting considerations are of course different. Something like this, 12,000 BTU, 120V AC for around $600 and you could potentially order a unit shipped to your local home improvement store to eliminate shipping issues.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/AUX-AUX-12-000-BTU-Ductless-Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-with-WI-Fi-control-Heat-Pump-17-SEER-115V-1Ton-12ft-w-Kit-Wall-Mount-Room-Size-400-600-Square-ft/1002967922?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-app-_-google-_-pla-_--_-soscooling-_-1002967922-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&ds_rl=1286890&gclid=CjwKCAjwrPCGBhALEiwAUl9X0-Nr-Zjm-b5vja1oDruquSPSMmK9wUV-_tmg5bdY_jcFaF_C6r5vpBoCKDoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

sbman said:

I know this isn't exactly what you asked, but have you considered a mini-split system? They tend to be less expensive and more efficient than an RV unit. The mounting considerations are of course different. Something like this, 12,000 BTU, 120V AC for around $600 and you could potentially order a unit shipped to your local home improvement store to eliminate shipping issues.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/AUX-AUX-12-000-BTU-Ductless-Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-with-WI-Fi-control-Heat-Pump-17-SEER-115V-1Ton-12ft-w-Kit-Wall-Mount-Room-Size-400-600-Square-ft/1002967922?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-app-_-google-_-pla-_--_-soscooling-_-1002967922-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&ds_rl=1286890&gclid=CjwKCAjwrPCGBhALEiwAUl9X0-Nr-Zjm-b5vja1oDruquSPSMmK9wUV-_tmg5bdY_jcFaF_C6r5vpBoCKDoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

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Thank you for reminding me of this option. I did check again, in case the components had altered. Unfortunately the inside blower part fits nowhere. It simply cannot work aboard Seaweed. But thanks for the suggestion.

That's unfortunate but certainly understandable. The footprint of the indoor unit requires a pretty large wall space that would be difficult to find on many boats. Seems like your only choice is to obtain a rooftop unit again.

Maybe you could purchase a unit through a large retailer like camping world and pick up at their store to minimize the chance of shipping damage. I'm sure this has it's own set of challenges as well, but it's a thought.

How aggravating! Glad you got it returned though. I would not have accepted it either.

I would not buy from them again, personally. That's just based on one time I was considering it and did some online research and was not pleased.

As far as a new unit: If it were me I would consider the Coleman Polar Cub 9,200 btu (I guess it's now called AirXcel Mach 8 plus Cub 9,200 btu but looks like the exact same thing).

It weighs 87# and is 8-1/4" tall. It's not particularly narrow but I wouldn't think it would be any wider than a typical RV roof unit? (Shroud width 28.4", and length 41.1") Locked Rotor Amps are 58.4

I have not bought it yet, but that is the unit I chose for my small RV. Reasons as follows:

1) Low profile so it will shade my solar panels as little as possible.

2) Could run reasonably from Honda EU2200 if desired*

3) Locked rotor amps not as high as some others (if too high then add hard start capacitor).

4) I felt it would be enough cooling (you may differ).

Maybe you have already ruled that one out for some other reason.

I would still find someplace else to buy whatever unit you now decide on, IMO.

Frosty

(Feel free to PM if you want to chat about btu considerations; it may be too much nattering for in the thread.)

*A friend has run a 13,000 btu RV roof AC from a Honda EU2200, but the Honda is basically running flat out the whole time - even after it's started up and just running along - which is somewhat unpleasant. In contrast I ran a 5,000btu unit from the same generator and it was at absolute low idle the whole time (ahhhh). Obviously 9,200 btu is somewhere in between.

Forget the resistance heating element and purchase a heat pump.

You do realize that in severe weather you will get water in through the unit. The drains in an RV unit are not designed to handle massive amounts of water. You may also experience condensate draining in if you using the unit while underway.

Bruce

PennBruce said:

You do realize that in severe weather you will get water in through the unit. The drains in an RV unit are not designed to handle massive amounts of water. You may also experience condensate draining in if you using the unit while underway.

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While I haven't had an RV AC on the roof of a boat, I have seen that a number of pocket cruisers have them (eg Rosborough, C-Dory, etc.). From what I gather (casual forum reading) there are no remarkable leaking issues (granted they are not crossing oceans and perhaps green water is not coming over their cabintops).

It sounds like they do die after around a decade or so. That may be more related to salt air location (vs. RV's that tend to not always be next to the ocean).

I wouldn't put one on a bluewater boat though.

Edited to add: I don't know that most of the people I mentioned would be running them underway. I say that because most of these boats do not have built in generators, and I doubt too many people run a Honda generator while underway. Just guessing on that though.

Keep hunting and haunting the RV stores for an exact replacement. You can do this online.
If it is within driving distance, (2 or 3 hours) you go pick it up. Considerate a vacation. Open the box and inspect it for damage before you tote it back to the boat.

Without the exact measurements, you cannot determine if the 15k will fit between your solar panels.
I did an internet search on the Coleman Polar Cub 9,200 btu and found many different brands for an alternative.
I dont think any of them are set up for seawater spray etc.
Of course, you will need a generator, when away from the dock.

OldDan1943 said:

I did an internet search on the Coleman Polar Cub 9,200 btu and found many different brands for an alternative.

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Ooh, that is interesting. I didn't know the Polar Cub 9,200 btu really had any competitors in the RV roof AC world. It'd be great to have more than one option in the smaller btu (under 10,000) and low profile category.

There used to be more of that small type, but I thought all the rest had gone away (you know, everything has to get bigger).

What did you come up with? That could be really useful info. Much appreciated.

Frosty said:

Ooh, that is interesting. I didn't know the Polar Cub 9,200 btu really had any competitors in the RV roof AC world. It'd be great to have more than one option in the smaller btu (under 10,000) and low profile category.

There used to be more of that small type, but I thought all the rest had gone away (you know, everything has to get bigger).

What did you come up with? That could be really useful info. Much appreciated.

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I came up with lots of alternative..... it would be best if you and others did the search. Too many to mention.
She may get better use out of a smaller A/C and 2 or 3 compartment fans to blow down into the berthing area.
I have a 12K for a lot bigger space than her boat.
A 5K maybe too small so maybe a 9K or 10K or less would serve her needs better?

Per a separate gasoline driven generator? Two types of fuel and where is it to be located. Remember the station wagon effect? Running the generator with the back door open will draw the exhaust into the boat. Even with the back door open, some exhaust may be drawn into the boat and that is bad for the occupants.

great information. I'm taking notes.

The 5k btu wall banger will only cool my galley area in the heat of summertime, not the pilothouse.

As for sizing, a friend in Apalachicola suggested that RV construction and specifically insulation is worse now than ever. He theorizes that is why the btu counts are going up.

Seaweed's beauty is in her large windows. That creates a greenhouse effect. It can get miserable hot in here, especially at a dock. Going over to an rv unit means admitting to myself that while docked I can just plug in.

At anchor with my sun shades up, and the breezes along with fans I have been okay except in the hottest muggy days. The 5k btu wall banger will run off my Yamaha 1k.

Fellows can start a 2k Honda. I do not have the upper body strength to start a cold Honda 2k. I can restart the 2k, if it is warmed up. The Yamaha 1k has two advantages over the Honda. #1) I can start her with three pulls. She has a fuel shut off valve. Turn that and 4 minutes later she sputters to a stop with an empty carburetor.

The rv unit will strictly be for dock use, unless can figure out how to shoehorn in one of those beautiful NextGen3.5 units.... golly gee, they surely do look pretty. 63 decibels with the enclosure. Be still my heart!!!

sbman said:

That's unfortunate but certainly understandable. The footprint of the indoor unit requires a pretty large wall space that would be difficult to find on many boats. Seems like your only choice is to obtain a rooftop unit again.

Maybe you could purchase a unit through a large retailer like camping world and pick up at their store to minimize the chance of shipping damage. I'm sure this has it's own set of challenges as well, but it's a thought.

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Thats a good idea. Thank you Cap'n.

OldDan1943 said:

I came up with lots of alternative..... it would be best if you and others did the search. Too many to mention.

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I'm always perfectly happy to do my own research.

But I must be doing something wrong and perhaps you could give a hint.

I put this into Google:

9,200 btu rv roof air conditioner

In the first 4 pages of Google hits, I see 99% of the hits are the Polar Cub I mentioned above. There is one mention of a "RecPro" 9.5k btu (which I did not know about before).

Since so many of us with smaller RV's (and boats) like these smaller roof AC's, it would be great to have lots of alternatives (especially now when the Polar Cub is hard to find).

I'd be most grateful if you could let slip a few of the other names.

Thanks,
Frosty

RV AC options

My first choice is a mini split - experience with 2 self installes - was shocked how efficient and queit they are.
Another option is a rollaround portable :
Midea MAP08R1CWT 3-in-1 Portable Air Conditioner, Dehumidifier, Fan, for Rooms up to 150 sq ft, 8,000 BTU (5,300 BTU SACC) control with Remote , White-



very small and quiet, cost effective. No compressors on the roof, mounting can take some creativity. Dometic has never worked for me - their tchnology seems to run a few years behind.

The RV rooftops work well, there is no sealing problem as potholes can create higher G forces than waves.

Since hot air rises the RV units do a better job of cooling as they recirculate the air in the boat.

A sunshade outside the boat is best at reflecting and not absorbing heat.

We fit sunshades that could be installed either inside or outside , sometimes just for privacy at a busy zoo dock.

FF said:

We fit sunshades that could be installed either inside or outside , sometimes just for privacy at a busy zoo dock.

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The ATs use a 2 part system.... sunshade and because at night, people can see in, if the lights are on, lower the solid shade too.

Per the pilot house, I elected to mount the canvas on the inside. They will last longer. Can remove them w/o going outside.

I would go with the smaller, cheaper unit. There is a lot to be said for a basically "drop in" unit. Don't worry about the discontinued aspect of the unit. It will probably be supported for a while. These units last a long time. The newer model will probably be discontinued by the time replacement parts are needed anyway.

pete

A reminder. I doubt if any of the RV roof top A/C units can with stand prolong salt spray and mist so the life may be considerably less.

OldDan1943 said:

A reminder. I doubt if any of the RV roof top A/C units can with stand prolong salt spray and mist so the life may be considerably less.

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I've worked on tugs that had rooftop units in the wheelhouse. They all came from flagshipmarine.com
You should check them out

Gary

janice142 said:

great information. I'm taking notes.
Fellows can start a 2k Honda. I do not have the upper body strength to start a cold Honda 2k. I can restart the 2k, if it is warmed up. The Yamaha 1k has two advantages over the Honda. #1) I can start her with three pulls. She has a fuel shut off valve. Turn that and 4 minutes later she sputters to a stop with an empty carburetor.

The rv unit will strictly be for dock use, unless can figure out how to shoehorn in one of those beautiful NextGen3.5 units.... golly gee, they surely do look pretty. 63 decibels with the enclosure. Be still my heart!!!

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Janice,

I have a Honda EU3000is that I use with my RV. It has electric start and is much quieter than the EU2000 models (which I had previously) at 57db at rated load and only 50db at 1/4 load. It's quite a bit more expensive at around $2,200 but that's still 1/3 of the cost of even the cheapest marine generator. It is heavy (130 pounds) and a somewhat bigger than the EU2000 most are familiar with, but it is a much better built unit than even the EU2000 with a commercially rated engine. It runs my 13,000 BTU rooftop AC unit on my RV just fine.

The smaller units tend to be targeted to light duty. The EU2000 engine doesn't even have connecting rod bearings, it's just an aluminum connecting rod riding on a steel crank pin. I had a pair of them joined together with Honda's pairing cable and my RV's AC killed them both with rod knocks and oil full of metal after just one season. The 3000 hardly notices the load and is performing as new after 3 seasons, with no metal in the oil.

Anyhow, just a field report of a generator option that provides a good bit of power without the pull start issue.

Once again TrawlerForum has come through. Still a lot to digest so I'm back at research later today. Thank you gents for your insights and advice.

Yesterday a friend was topside tracking down leaks and resolving same. I'm not terribly concerned about salt water atop the boat. Seaweed is strictly coastal and I'm a wimp. If the forecast is moderate, I stay put. After all, I'm already where I want to be. I like pleasure cruises so smooth or light chop work great for me.

If I had a different sort of boat I would probably be the same. I've been offshore in a hurricane as a child aboard our 40'er. Green water over the fly Bridge and so rough you'd never want to do that again! That was the point where mother put her boat shoe down and we got our first vhf radio. Back then it was $1,500! Times have changed.

Storms have not. I am cautious, as anyone with a coastal boat should be. I've seen way too many men lose their wives by going where the vessel was capable but the people inside were not. Bravery begets fears especially in new boaters. That causes a lack of trust that takes a long time (if ever) to recover.

And, best of all i found my power outage in the pilothouse. It was the hot lead. I know... how often is it not the ground?!? But now I have power so I can start putting all the wires back, this time in proper order. This time I want anchor at the top, followed by steaming (spare anchor light that uses more power), nav lights, etc. Basically sequential, by height.

I'm quirky that way.

Anyway, this was great info. Thanks for the insight. It is appreciated.

The genny info was great too. Part of my concerns re generator in general is the fuel consumption. I'm not convinced I need one. The cost is substantial (especially diesel) though with prices going through the roof on everything this may indeed be my window of opportunity. I have saved almost enough this past year to swing the NextGen so it is tempting....

I do love RV air con on the roof but they have some differences compared to regular boat units.

They are not built to be repaired , there are no service valves , and RV shops do not have folks with the skills and tools to do a repair of a coolant circuit.

The idea is for $500, just put a new one on the roof.

Depending on your location the choice between an electric heating element and reverse cycle needs to be made.

In FL where it is rare to get really cold the reverse cycle is fine as the outside air temp seldom goes below 40F , so the unit will operate most times.

Where it gets below 40F with regularity, the heating element will be required , but so will an extra heater. The heating element is 15A so only puts out about 5000BTU .

The RV units are great, but have differences from marine units , at 3 or 4 times the price. The marine units crap out trying to heat when the water is below 40F.

The only units that do fine in freezing temps as heaters are the mini-split units. Some can be had with a roof unit that might take up the same room as an RV unit.

FF said I do love RV air con on the roof but they have some differences compared to regular boat units.

They are not built to be repaired , there are no service valves , and RV shops do not have folks with the skills and tools to do a repair of a coolant circuit.

The idea is for $500, just put a new one on the roof.

You know, that has a certain appeal. I've read expected life span ranges between 5 and 10 years. The 13.5 at $900 over that time period would cost 50 cents down to a quarter per day. That seems reasonable, even if it has to be tossed...

Depending on your location the choice between an electric heating element and reverse cycle needs to be made.

In FL where it is rare to get really cold the reverse cycle is fine as the outside air temp seldom goes below 40F , so the unit will operate most times.

Where it gets below 40F with regularity, the heating element will be required , but so will an extra heater. The heating element is 15A so only puts out about 5000BTU .

I've utilized propane and recently (3 or 4 years ago) switched to the Aladdin Genie II oil lantern. It has the mantle, and that apparently makes the lamp burn hotter. I also laid in a couple of the NOS (new old stock) mantles from Brazil that put off more heat.

Using the "real" mantle bracket I have also tied on a Coleman mantle, which works remarkably well and is lots less $$$. I read though I have not seen the source data that the Aladdin puts out 2,500 btus. It is hot and will toast marshmallows very well.

We will not discuss weight just yet though... Lehman's sells a heat shield which is important in my view. It is essentially one of those bell tops that lanterns used to have...

https://www.lehmans.com/product/aladdin-mantle-saver-heatshield/


The RV units are great, but have differences from marine units , at 3 or 4 times the price. The marine units crap out trying to heat when the water is below 40F.

The only units that do fine in freezing temps as heaters are the mini-split units. Some can be had with a roof unit that might take up the same room as an RV unit.

Thank you so much for the guidance. I'm hoping I can get a new old stock for Seaweed. That would be ideal.

Pete Meisinger said:

I would go with the smaller, cheaper unit. There is a lot to be said for a basically "drop in" unit. Don't worry about the discontinued aspect of the unit. It will probably be supported for a while. These units last a long time. The newer model will probably be discontinued by the time replacement parts are needed anyway.

pete

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Thank you Cap'n. That's a perspective I had not considered. Wheni did the math, 10 years of use would cost me two bits per day. That's nearly nothing. Even if it only makes it five years, we are talking fifty cents a day. Thanks...

sbman said:

Janice,

I have a Honda EU3000is that I use with my RV. It has electric start and is much quieter than the EU2000 models (which I had previously) at 57db at rated load and only 50db at 1/4 load. It's quite a bit more expensive at around $2,200 but that's still 1/3 of the cost of even the cheapest marine generator. It is heavy (130 pounds) and a somewhat bigger than the EU2000 most are familiar with, but it is a much better built unit than even the EU2000 with a commercially rated engine. It runs my 13,000 BTU rooftop AC unit on my RV just fine.

The smaller units tend to be targeted to light duty. The EU2000 engine doesn't even have connecting rod bearings, it's just an aluminum connecting rod riding on a steel crank pin. I had a pair of them joined together with Honda's pairing cable and my RV's AC killed them both with rod knocks and oil full of metal after just one season. The 3000 hardly notices the load and is performing as new after 3 seasons, with no metal in the oil.

Anyhow, just a field report of a generator option that provides a good bit of power without the pull start issue.

Click to expand...

Interesting! I'll look into the fuel needs.

Where the NextGen3.5 pulls my heartstrings is diesel, which i carry and she uses according to the nextgen just .2 gallons per hour. Here's her stats: NEXT-GEN - Marine Power Units

And she's built on a Kubota. Seaweed's engine is the Kubota 18hp, a tractor engine marinized. Beta Marine uses the Kubota for their diesels too.

Still, $2k is a huge price difference...

As Seaweed is my Last Boat, and as savings accumulate I have been spending it on her, making her more accommodating for me as I get older. After 14 years she is nearly unrecognizable from the bare bones I started with. I am indeed fortunate.

Thank you sbman for your insight and real world experience with the Honda. That is intriguing.

Janice, a previous owner installed a Dometic Penguin II 13.5 rooftop unit into the hardtop of this boat - not so sure I would have. Including the marine AC unit down in the cabin, this lil boat has 23.5 KBtu of air conditioning, and because I added Micro-Air soft start microprocessors to both, I can run then both at anchor or underway on my 3.5 KW NextGen. The RT unit is noisy, but the big starting "THUNK" is gone thanks to the soft starter.

I have little corrosion issues with the rooftop unit and zero water intrusion through it. Condensate just runs off either side of the aft end of hardtop and thence over the side off the deck there. I have had a pine tree across the hardtop (hurricane) pushing the boat down into the water about three inches, but the tough Penguin II survived with just a new fiberglass cover needed. I pull the cover off once every few years to gain better access to the steel grill work for wire brushing and preserving with appropriate paint and spraying Corrosion X around inside the unit.

Caveat. My boat lives under a roof when not underway.

The Aladin mantle lamp should work OK as your heater.

If you turn it up too far and the mantle goes black, some table salt sprinkled on while lit will clear the mantle.

The best way to increase the output is to slip a second chimney over the first.

The lamp with a metal base and the caboose mounting will allow the expensive mantle to live longer.

Check out Houghton Ac units sold by RECPRO. They are a lot quieter than the Dometics and very reasonably priced.

Thanks to Rich for mentioning the Micro Air Easy Start as an addition. I would add one to the 9200 Coleman Cub or any other small RV roof unit. I have also used the 9200 Coleman on a 25' pilot house boat and no issues (leaks major corrosion, etc) if well cared for. There are many small work boats with roof top RV type of AC units.

I have owned the small Honda Generators since the 1970's. I still have a 500 /800 peak watt generator which probably has close to 1000 hours on it and still runs well. I have owned several of the 2000/2200 watt units which have performed well for me. I have run them under way--on the swim step/on top of a plastic crate. The current boat has one of the Honda EU 2200's mounted permanently on a starboard and SS mount facing aft from the splash well, with a cover which can be easily removed. We have several CO monitors which are always on--near the helmsman's head, the admiral's head and our heads when in the bunk. The aft door is always closed when the generator is running. We do not run the generator at night when sleeping.

I would not be afraid of a recently "discontinued" Dometic product, there will be some support (as much as Dometic gives)--in most AC units, unless a minor fitting, a new unit. I also would have rejected the shipped AC unit which was damaged. My experience with their support, (RVing for 60 years) is they refer you to a local dealer--many don't work on Air Conditioning units, beyond a capacitor or relay replacement. Many do not have recharge ports or valves.

One comment on use of the Aladdin lamp for heat: There will be CO given off by the lantern, as well as O2 consumed, so there needs to be ventilation and monitoring.

Try AdventureRV. I've used them in the past and have been happy with their service and prices. They list several 15 and 13.5k a/cs on their site.