What does radar do that my eyes can't?

ofer said:

I have read many of your posts.

my recommendation is to get rid of your current boat and get a house boat.

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Just might be worth considering....if you never get out in open water, at night or in fog. So, depends on your needs.


As for the necessary tools to navigate, that depends on your boating, too. Many of us would not be with out radar, or a lot of the other tools.



BUT, if yours works, no downside to using it. However, I could argue to plan for a new one as when it fails the cost of fixing is probably not worth keeping it. Radars are sooo cheap today with such capability. Ranks right up there after a VHF, depth and potter. Autopilot next.

ofer said:

I have read many of your posts.

my recommendation is to get rid of your current boat and get a house boat.

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That was WAY out of line.

The COLREGS give an out with prevailing circumstances.

toocoys said:

Colregs... hahahah! I'm not the least bit concerned with those.

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Perhaps this one too?

toocoys said:

Barge traffic + Fog + ICW = bad outcome.

Well that settles that.... I'll keep it until I can afford to replace it with a modern unit.

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What will a modern unit do that the older unit can't apart from cost money?

If all you want is eyes in the fog learn to use what you have.

Simi 60 said:

What will a modern unit do that the older unit can't apart from cost money?

If all you want is eyes in the fog learn to use what you have.

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The modern units are WAY ahead of the old stuff.... no double about it. Mare capable and easier to use.


And, yes, the old "true" analog radars worked great in their time, but required a lot of skill. The early digital radar had a lot of junk out there until that was perfected.


Just get the latest. They just don't cost much.

Wifey B: We had radar on our boat on the lake. Was silly, but hubby got everything they offered with it. 30' bowrider, inland lake, radar. So we played around with it. Did the block helm view and use it while other of us made sure we didn't wreck. Learned just a little. Mostly used as a toy.

UNTIL

One beautiful afternoon a summer storm arose. Perhaps we didn't follow weather closely enough but it's a freaking lake so who cares. Well, suddenly there was rain and wind and a total eclipse of the sun but not a solar eclipse, rather rain and fog. Lake is only 33 miles or so long but it is at one point 8 miles wide. We were at upper end and heading home and lived at lower end. As darkness descended although only 4 pm or so, we decided maybe time to see if we'd learned anything about that toy gadget thingy ma bob. We saw what we guessed to be a bass boat zoom by and glad we could see them on radar, knowing they sure couldn't see us and they had no lights on. Soon no other boats. I'm guessing we were around 15 miles from home. We thought or turning around and going to one of the marinas we'd already passed but then figured that was as bad as continuing. We sat for a good while but didn't really feel all that comfortable doing that. We finally eased on our way. We got through the wide stretch and by now I'm guessing 4-6' seas there and knew we were near Westport Marina but almost home by now. We weren't good at using radar but two of us and we were very diligent. By the time we made it home, fog had eased into darkness which was much better but we never boated after dark.

The next day the storm was all the talk at the marinas and had done some considerable damage to some. It was one of those "where were you?" routines and we told where we were and talked about making it home on radar. A lot of people shocked we had radar. I remember one boat had pullled to a sand bar and damaged prop, spent the night anchored and called for a tow the next day. Another found a dock and the homeowner drove them home. One ran aground returning to a marina. Sailboat regatta for the following day cancelled.

We weren't confident but it worked. We were lightly frightened, but never truly scared. We hadn't yet even imagined coastal boating but pledged never to have another boat without radar. One time and it pays for itself and suddenly we didn't feel so silly about the games we played testing it during the day. We knew what areas looked like on radar and even the area in which we lived. We knew how to detect boats and markers.

As someone said earlier, you never value it until you need it. Still the worst visibility we've ever been in.

Our boat came with an old Furuno FR-7112, green CRT with a 4’ array. Not sure how old it is but the manual is from 1998. Although we have years of full time sailboat cruising we had never had a radar. We checked out a basic radar book from the library and with a little practice became familiar enough to use it with confidence. Everything is manual but setting bearing and range lines on a target is enough to understand relative motion.

We use it for open water crossings, at night, in fog and to track thunderstorms. Although you wouldn’t think fog is a problem in the Gulf of Mexico we have been on several crossings with dense fog. I would not want to be without it for these situations.

I have considered replacing it with a modern unit but it works well and not having used a newer model I don’t know what I’m missing.

We also have a good AIS setup which is very helpful but, as mentioned above, it is not a substitute for radar.

Seevee said:

The modern units are WAY ahead of the old stuff.... no double about it. Mare capable and easier to use.


And, yes, the old "true" analog radars worked great in their time, but required a lot of skill. The early digital radar had a lot of junk out there until that was perfected.


Just get the latest. They just don't cost much.

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Yes, I know the new units do more, overlay on opencpn for example
But if just using it to see through fog is there any need for all the "extras"

I disagree that the older ones are difficult to use or require a lot of skill, our old JRC JMA2300 works a treat after spending a few hours playing around with it on a clear day.

toocoys said:

Colregs... hahahah! I'm not the least bit concerned with those.

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??? Joking?

Other than manual vs automatic tuning, I think there is very little difference between older vs newer radars.


I think the issue isn't the model radar on your dash, it's your willingness to learn how it works.

twistedtree said:

??? Joking?

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Absolutely not. I will never be "at sea" so they don't concern me.

I'm beginning to remember why I quit posting here.

They apply inland too....slightly modified from offshore.

toocoys said:

Absolutely not. I will never be "at sea" so they don't concern me.

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The Inland Rule 7(b) governing the use of radar that is fitted and operational is identical to the COLREGS.

I'd rather have a 30 year old radar that works than a receive only AIS. THE MANUAL will tell you how to set it up, but you need to use it often to be able to use when its really needed. It's not hard.
One thing I see from your signature photo that may give you trouble is the canvas top bows being in front of the radar. This will cause strong echo returns to stretch out from distinct "blips" to partial circles. Again a simple reduction in GAIN will pick the target out of the noise. On the older sets, its a knob, like turning down the volume. On the new radars, its a menu item that you need to be able to find on demand. As others said, the time to learn to use radar is in clear weather.

Modern doppler radar simplifies radar. I have a Garmin 18 fantom radar on my boat and have it on continually even in the sunniest, clearest day of the year. It will track 10 targets in your area that are closing with you or are close to you but not a threat. The target has a tail with a dot at the end. If the dot is green, no threat, if the dot is pink, pay attention but not a threat, if the dot is red, the vessel is closing on you and is a threat.

Garmin's radar is designed for people who don't like manuals and just want to stumble around until they figure it out. I like it because I don't have an autopilot. When my guests come on and ask if I have an AP I say yes - you. So I can take a radar illiterate, plunk them down at the helm and tell them about target acquisition and colours, and ask them to tell me when any target is red, and we are good to go.

For me, one of the main functions of my radar is to let me know what is behind me. I find I and my guests just don't many head checks to the stern. This way some fishing boat with 4 outboards can come screaming by and not startle me. I will see it on the radar.

BTW, not meant as a criticism, but add me to the list of the someones who would never have anything larger than a ski boat without functioning radar of some sort. I was brought up on analog radar but appreciate modern units. I’m always amazed at those willing to boat in the dark without the proper tools to keep the boat on the right side of the water surface.

toocoys said:

Absolutely not. I will never be "at sea" so they don't concern me.

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Wifey B: Do you only boat in your bathtub?

Yeah. Im out.

Toocoys, on another note. You mentioned replacing your radar display with remote engine monitoring camera. That seems like a huge waste of money for your type of cruising.

He says he's gone for now. We will see.

While I understand but don't agree with his concept of radar for his cruising style, (if`day, fair weather, limited cruising) is all he plans to do and is good at monitoring weather and sunset, I would agree that remote cameras are a wonderful tool.

My take is that radar is just another tool in our navigational toolbox. There will (may) be times when it's helpful, and others when it's not. Just like using a chart plotter instead of paper charts, there's a leaning curve, and still a place for each.

Well, if one doesn't care about nav rules, then I can see how a radar would add very little value.

twistedtree said:

Well, if one doesn't care about nav rules, then I can see how a radar would add very little value.

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This.
Someone earlier posted that he/she should get a houseboat. Myself and others initially thought the comment out of hand. But anyone who feels they can disregard the rules of navigation should never leave the slip. Just my $.02.

toocoys said:

Yeah. Im out.

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You asked about the usefulness of radar and got many helpful answers. You scoffed at colregs and received some legitimately critical comments. Now you quit and go home?

You are acting like a kid looking for attention. Be a grown-up and have a discussion. You might learn something.

There are some large container ships that make a very large and potentially damaging wake. I can see those wakes trailing the ship on radar and have plenty of time to prepare for them.

Here's an example of how radar can help. I was anchored in a cove on a beautiful sunny day when the wind changed direction 180* and started howling. I raised the anchor and headed toward our marina which was about 5 miles away. This is the view we had as we were coming out of the cove.


I could see a small boat headed toward us from about 3/4 mile away. I knew I was not going to be able to see when that rain hit us so I flipped on the radar. It timed in just about the time the rain hit.

We slow cruised along the lee side of the river as we headed home. I couldn't see 50 yards but the radar kept track of that other boat even as it passed us.

About 3/4 of the way home we took a lightening strike that blew out all the flybridge electronics and the winds ripped up my upper bimini. I found out later that the winds were clocked at 70+mph.


All of this happened on the Columbia River, with no open waters anywhere around. Never underestimate the need for a radar. You never know when it's going to be needed.

rsn48 said:

Modern doppler radar simplifies radar. I have a Garmin 18 fantom radar on my boat and have it on continually even in the sunniest, clearest day of the year. It will track 10 targets in your area that are closing with you or are close to you but not a threat. The target has a tail with a dot at the end. If the dot is green, no threat, if the dot is pink, pay attention but not a threat, if the dot is red, the vessel is closing on you and is a threat.

Garmin's radar is designed for people who don't like manuals and just want to stumble around until they figure it out.

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I've got the same Garmin (first time radar). I haven't stumbled around using it enough to get the color-coded tracks on radar targets. I do get irritating warnings when an AIS target is headed "at me" (even if there are 10 finger piers between us). I also saw something invisible ripping up behind me and passed really close. Turns out it was a cormorant at about 20 foot elevation.

Some of the safety features remind me of Mrs. Bucket in the British series Keeping up Appearances. "Mind the lorry, Richard." "It's parked over in the lot, Hyachinth." Still, I need to learn all the system can do if only to figure out how to turn things off.

Somebody mentioned a book on radar usage (since the Garmin manual is useless). Any suggestions?

guy with a boat said:

You asked about the usefulness of radar and got many helpful answers. You scoffed at colregs and received some legitimately critical comments. Now you quit and go home?

You are acting like a kid looking for attention. Be a grown-up and have a discussion. You might learn something.

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Proud to be ignorant.