Grill propane tanks storage.

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Dougcole

Dougcole

Guru
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
2,167
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Morgan
Vessel Make
'05 Mainship 40T
We have a Weber Q on our boat, which I like, but I hate the little 1 pound gas bottles. They are expensive, not environmentally sound and rust like crazy. So I am considering upgrading to a refillable 5 lb bottle.


The only propane on our boat is the grill. I know a little about marine propane systems, the dedicated storage locker needs to be vented, they need a solenoid etc. But does that apply to a portable tanks as well? I'd like to keep it in my summer kitchen (which is vented) and take it out when I use it. I would not keep it attached to the grill.


Thoughts?


Thanks.
 
I have a rail mounted Magma propane grill and galley stove/oven. My galley stove is plumbed from the exterior propane locker with a solenoid. For the Magma grill I purchased a 6’ flexible line that attaches to a standard propane tank with an adapter that fits the grill which is the same thread pattern as the 1 lb bottles. The set up works really well for me.

A few things to consider.

* Propane is heavier than air so where you store your propane is critical. My locker is outside and on the swim platform.

* the propane line are hard to find over 6’ in length so consider that when selecting a location for you grill and propane locker. Ideally you will not want to move your tank to use the grill. When you disconnect the hose from the tank it will vent propane so be mindful of where that will go. If you will disconnect the hose, wear gloves because the propane will freeze your hands and it is painful. Or turn off the tank, turn on the grill burners to release the pressure in the hose and then disconnect the hose. I keep mine connected to prevent the venting and just close the valve on the tank.

* You will need a place to refill your tank. I only have experience on land filling it and some places that are only used to 20lb BBQ tanks will be confused. Empty, they hold 1.2 gallons of propane. Shouldn’t be an issue but thought I’d mention it so you aren’t surprised.

Franco
 
AlpinaRanger said:
I have a rail mounted Magma propane grill and galley stove/oven. My galley stove is plumbed from the exterior propane locker with a solenoid. For the Magma grill I purchased a 6’ flexible line that attaches to a standard propane tank with an adapter that fits the grill which is the same thread pattern as the 1 lb bottles. The set up works really well for me.

A few things to consider.

* Propane is heavier than air so where you store your propane is critical. My locker is outside and on the swim platform.

* the propane line are hard to find over 6’ in length so consider that when selecting a location for you grill and propane locker. Ideally you will not want to move your tank to use the grill. When you disconnect the hose from the tank it will vent propane so be mindful of where that will go. If you will disconnect the hose, wear gloves because the propane will freeze your hands and it is painful. Or turn off the tank, turn on the grill burners to release the pressure in the hose and then disconnect the hose. I keep mine connected to prevent the venting and just close the valve on the tank.

* You will need a place to refill your tank. I only have experience on land filling it and some places that are only used to 20lb BBQ tanks will be confused. Empty, they hold 1.2 gallons of propane. Shouldn’t be an issue but thought I’d mention it so you aren’t surprised.

Franco
Click to expand...


I'd rather not build/use a dedicated propane locker for this purpose. My galley is all electric, this tank would be solely for the grill. No problem to take it out when grilling then put it away when done, it would only weigh 8 or 10 lbs full.



I would close the tank valve then disconnect it from the grill after each use so it would not be an "open" system when it was stored away. Pretty different setup than a propane galley with all of its associated hoses etc. but I want to make sure it is safe.
 
I used to refill those little bottles, and don't recall ever having had a rust problem with them. But, for safety, they need to be stored in a place where propane accumulation won't be a problem if they leak. I kept one in a plastic bag (so it wouldn't get all greasy and dirty) inside my grill, mounted on the rail.
 
Please do not store the propane tank inside inside the boat or in a confined non-vented space.
 
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I'm sure some will find fault with my method. Like the op I have a Weber Q with an adapter to run off a larger propane tank. I Cut a four inch round hole in the bottom of a 5 gallon plastic bucket The 2 gallon propane tank fits securely in the bucket and the bucket sits on top of a deck drain in the cockpit that exits just above the water line on the aft port side of the boat. The hose is coiled and stored on top of the tank when not in use. When we want to use the grill just uncoil the hose and connect it to the Weber that is mount on a rail in the cockpit.
 
Ask a surveyor if these storage methods meet the standards, or ask your insurance company. I would hate to have my boat blow up and someone get injured because I stored propane improperly. You can’t go back after it blows up and then store it properly...
 
Ka_sea_ta said:
I'm sure some will find fault with my method. Like the op I have a Weber Q with an adapter to run off a larger propane tank. I Cut a four inch round hole in the bottom of a 5 gallon plastic bucket The 2 gallon propane tank fits securely in the bucket and the bucket sits on top of a deck drain in the cockpit that exits just above the water line on the aft port side of the boat. The hose is coiled and stored on top of the tank when not in use. When we want to use the grill just uncoil the hose and connect it to the Weber that is mount on a rail in the cockpit.
Click to expand...

I think this is reasonable. I can’t tell you that it meets ABYC standards. If you filled the cockpit up with 2 inches of water could the water find its way into the boat? If it couldn’t then I would say you met the definition of exterior of the boat and that would make you ABYC compliant.
 
I see no reason for a solenoid. You’ll be manually turning the tank off and disconnecting the hose after each use.

I would not store it below deck. Find a place for a small locker on deck. Make sure the locker is vented.

Trident Marine sells an interesting six pound aluminum tank. It is tall and skinny. I was thinking a piece of 8” pvc pipe fastened to a stantion might make a nice locker for it.
https://tridentmarine.com/product/trident-aluminum-gas-cylinders/#.YKxtvy33af1
 
One of the seats on my flybridge had a cooler built into it with an overboard drain. That's where I stored the 1 pound bottles. I considered that safe.
Sounds like under your summer kitchen would be similar.
 
We have a gas Magma on the back rail of our sundeck trawler. I store the green 1-lb cans in a 4" pvc pipe (about rail height 3'). They fit perfectly inside.
Glued a cap on the bottom and drilled several 1/4" drain holes in the bottom. Have a screw cap on top. It's attached to the rail (vertically), and if there is a leak, it will drain over the side, away from opening port holes. Saw this setup on a sailboat a few yrs ago. No rust or other problems so far. Holds four cans.
 
I just read the ABYC section on LPG. It might be an older version but think the basics remain the same.

Based on your boats picture.....I would either buy a tank and mount or just the mount if your selection of tank will fit from a place that sells rail mounted holders and mount it to the aft flybridge rail in the open air (if disconnected usually). You see these rail mounted tanks on sailboats all over the place.

If not, any box, that won't rust with, gasket, and 1/2 inch hole at the bottom leading off the back or side (aft) of your flybridge deck I believe meets the requirements too.

Neither is really what ABYC wants, but unless the propane storage is in new construction, the requirements for older boats would be ridiculous to meet, and I have had 2 insurance companies and an insurance surveyor OK my storage that would be similar to what I described ( yours would be even better). A cooler with enlarged drain would be perfect if your bottle fit and the coolers wasn't too big. Me, I would just hang it on the rail with a cover over it labeled "PROPANE".
 
psneeld said:
If not, any box, that won't rust with, gasket, and 1/2 inch hole at the bottom leading off the back or side (aft) of your flybridge deck I believe meets the requirements too.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like inside a rail mounted grill is just as safe. What am I missing?
 
MYTraveler said:
I used to refill those little bottles, and don't recall ever having had a rust problem with them. But, for safety, they need to be stored in a place where propane accumulation won't be a problem if they leak. I kept one in a plastic bag (so it wouldn't get all greasy and dirty) inside my grill, mounted on the rail.
Click to expand...

I used to do the same. Mine did rust in the warm moist Caribbean but then I didn't keep them in a plastic bag - good idea.

When I needed a semi-permanent solution (once propane no longer available in Europe) I found an igloo was the perfect "storage locker" it sealed at the top, I used the igloo drain fitting to route the supply hose and tapped a hole on the opposite side at the bottom to drain propane over the side. Later added a cushion on top and it looked like a custom seat.

http://www.alanjoanhere.com/images/2008 Spain/03 2008 Moonstruck bbq igloo installation 5.JPG
 
MYTraveler said:
Sounds to me like inside a rail mounted grill is just as safe. What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Nothing other than the farther outboard it is ....the "perceived" safety, compliance, attempt to satisfy.....:D.....whatever ....;)

May be good enough...only because of the word " through the hull, overboard seems to prevail in the writing.....
 
Hi Doug,
What worked for me, was a 10 lb. aluminum tank tied to my swim step mounted dinghy lift (Seawise) with the tank in a plastic "milk box" (those square totally open and vented plastic boxes). I closed the valve after every use and left the hose connected to the BBQ (Magma) that was rail mounted close by. If the tank, pressure relief valve, hoses, etc. ever developed a leak, it would just flow overboard at the stern of the vessel. Being a bit cautious, I also regularly checked for leaks using a hand held propane sniffer. You could just spray the setup with soapy water and look for leaks that way as well as your own nose.

For many reasons, including your description of how those DISPOSABLE 1lb bottles rust, refilling the ONE USE bottles is against all safety regulations. Not being an insurance expert, but I would worry that should something happen with a "refilled" bottle, a person's coverage may not be in place, to say nothing about the personal danger. I know, people here "do it all the time" and have "never had a problem". It only takes once though.
Never store propane bottles of any kind in the boat or in a locker that does not have a bottom vent where any propane can easily find it's way overboard (and not into the boat).
 
Nice solution,

Bruce


AlanT said:
When I needed a semi-permanent solution (once propane no longer available in Europe) I found an igloo was the perfect "storage locker" it sealed at the top, I used the igloo drain fitting to route the supply hose and tapped a hole on the opposite side at the bottom to drain propane over the side. Later added a cushion on top and it looked like a custom seat.
Click to expand...
 
Here's a bracket that can be bolted to your transom/swim platform. Its's available for 5, 10 and 20 lb. tanks. They're designed for steel tanks so rusting is a maintenance issue.

https://stainfastmarine.com/shop/uncategorized/stainless-steel-dock-line-holder/

Bolton BPH.jpg

Bruce
 
The green 1lb canisters are a concern, not only for environmental reasons. They are known/prone to leak after being unscrewed from the grill. So if u must use 1, leave it connected until exhausted if possible. Do not unscrew and store in anything other than an overboard-vented locker.

Another alternative to steel portable tanks are the F/G tanks, leave no marks on the deck. Like others, I store mine over large cockpit drain. 1 tank serves my Magna grill for daily use for months. RV ‘s use them frequently.
 
I keep my propane in my dinghy, which is hung off the swim step. Have to attach and store the tank each time. Not a big problem.
 
Flatswing said:
The green 1lb canisters are a concern, not only for environmental reasons. They are known/prone to leak after being unscrewed from the grill. So if u must use 1, leave it connected until exhausted if possible. Do not unscrew and store in anything other than an overboard-vented locker.

Another alternative to steel portable tanks are the F/G tanks, leave no marks on the deck. Like others, I store mine over large cockpit drain. 1 tank serves my Magna grill for daily use for months. RV ‘s use them frequently.
Click to expand...

I purchased brass caps for my green bottles a couple years back. Because of the gasket inside the brass cap I suspect it provides a better seal than without same.

Those plastic propane tanks are great. I loved mine though I passed it along last summer. For me the hassle of hauling the tank to shore (even though it weighed less than the steel or aluminum ones) simply wasn't worth it to me. A green bottle lasts a week, and is easier to transport. Finding folks who refill the green ones has never been an issue.

Good luck, etc.

I would recommend purchasing the brass screw caps for the green tanks.
 
firehoser75 said:
Hi Doug,

For many reasons, including your description of how those DISPOSABLE 1lb bottles rust, refilling the ONE USE bottles is against all safety regulations. Not being an insurance expert, but I would worry that should something happen with a "refilled" bottle, a person's coverage may not be in place, to say nothing about the personal danger. I know, people here "do it all the time" and have "never had a problem". It only takes once though.
Never store propane bottles of any kind in the boat or in a locker that does not have a bottom vent where any propane can easily find it's way overboard (and not into the boat).
Click to expand...
Repeating myself, but refilling (what are cheaply made bottles that were only made for single use and to be disposable) green 1.lb propane bottles is a bad idea!! Yes, you can buy parts to enable this poor practise, but it is against all safety regulations. There is a reason that not just any employee at the station where BBQ tanks are refilled can legally refill cylinders. The attendant must be trained and certified. Ever seen a "self serve" propane refill??? There is a very good reason for that.
Yes, I know that others here have refilled these disposable bottles without too many problems and will continue to do it, but that does not make it actually safe or even a "smart thing to do".:dance:
I have attended propane accidents in the past. Often the cause was not following best safety practises or doing things that were plain "bad ideas".
It only takes one time.

Propane is safe, if used, handled, stored, and transported properly. That usually means following well established safety regulations. It is one thing to disregard these regulations personally, but something else to advise others (how to) to do so. I am not saying that anyone here has done that, just commenting in general and in my opinion. I am only trying to inform (cause some thinking or rethinking) and to caution for safety reasons. :angel:
I admit, I am passionate about safety.
 
Presuming you're a fireman firehoser75? You would definitely see the aftermath of poor decision making. For me a green bottle is convenient. Although I do not personally refill these small tanks, it is easy to see how unsafe structurally a rusty single use tank might become. Thank you for your input.
 
To add to Tom's (Firehoser) cautions:
Storage of the 1 lb Green propane bottles should be treated the same as if they were the big 5,10 or 20 lb bottles. They are just as likely, or perhaps more likely to leak as their larger siblings. So store in a properly vented space, where any leakage will make its way to the water without straying in through an opening port or window.
 
koliver said:
To add to Tom's (Firehoser) cautions:
Storage of the 1 lb Green propane bottles should be treated the same as if they were the big 5,10 or 20 lb bottles. They are just as likely, or perhaps more likely to leak as their larger siblings. So store in a properly vented space, where any leakage will make its way to the water without straying in through an opening port or window.
Click to expand...
++:thumb:
Due to inexpensive construction and the fact that the 1lb. bottles are designed to be single use, among other issues, they are far, far more likely to leak than "regular" propane cylinders. I have experienced this first hand, as in the past I have occasionally used (and were unhappy with) the green bottles on my boat. I have never "refilled" them (the 1lb green bottles), even though I have been trained and certified in refilling propane cylinders in the past.
Yes, I am retired from the largest Fire Department in BC, where I held various responsibilities with a wide range of functions. After leaving the Fire Service, I worked as emergency response manager for a private company involved in the transportation of dangerous goods, and mainly the emergency response to spills, leaks, etc. of many different types of hazardous materials including marine, rail, road, and industrial accidents.
Just some background info answering Janice's question.:)
 
Yep, I never refill the green bottles, and we never remove them from the grill until they are empty.
 
For those that like the convenience of 1lb refillable, there are DOT approved refillable bottles made for those that refill but are still concerned.

Unfortunately, to me they have priced themselves out of the common sense market.
 
PennBruce said:
Here's a bracket that can be bolted to your transom/swim platform. Its's available for 5, 10 and 20 lb. tanks. They're designed for steel tanks so rusting is a maintenance issue.

https://stainfastmarine.com/shop/uncategorized/stainless-steel-dock-line-holder/

View attachment 118022

Bruce
Click to expand...
If you're designing a new tank installation, you'll be way ahead making it to fit the standard 20# patio tanks. Boat builders seem to love the expensive aluminum or fiberglass tanks but I think they're just another way to steal your money. Some refill places will be confused by them and might decline to fill, and all tanks have to be recertified after 12 years which can be difficult and expensive. Yes the steel tanks do rust, but if you do the tank exchange thing they won't be on the boat long enough to be a problem. You don't get a brand new tank every time, but they do get inspected and painted if necessary before being refilled. And if you have one due for recert, they just take it in for exchange without even looking at the dates. Almost every gas station and hardware store in every town in the US has tank exchange, there's probably one across the street from the marina or dinghy landing. The refill place might be miles away. The only downside I've seen is they only put 15 to 18# in the 20# tank. They say that's for safety but it's really their profit margin. Cost for the exchange with 15# is about the same as having 20# refilled. If you had to take a taxi to the refill place, the exchange is cheaper.
 
I think you guys are over thinking this

I buy a couple of 1lb bottles every season and store them in my propane locker which holds 2 20 lbs tanks and is properly vented. When I bought the boat the previous owner had a line from the 20lb tanks that went from the propane locker to the barbecue but I removed it because it looked messy. Having individual bottles for the propane barbecue is not that big of a deal.

Recently I rebuilt my propane locker and redid the solenoid, gauge and fittings. Everything was available from Propane Depot in Burnaby, B.C., in Lake City industrial park. I used 3/8 " plywood and sealed it and painted it up to match the boat with vents in place where the original locker had them.
 
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