Cruising With A Firearm

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Inbreaker said:
I'm following this discussion from the other side of the world.
A long time ago I did 30,000+ nm, double handed, in the South Pacific and South East Asia. The only time we felt a need for or ever carried a gun was in the Kimberley region of Australia. There the issue was saltwater crocodiles. You'd feel a tad exposed going ashore in a rubber boat.
Now I have a boat on Vancouver Island, that I hope I will eventually be allowed to use, post covid. It occurred to me that if I can ever get up there, I would like to see the San Juans and SE Alaska again.
Reading many of these posts however, I am getting the strong sense that I should not cross into US waters unless I am armed and prepared to kill someone or something. If I take the boat across the line, I should be prepared to defend myself with deadly force-Have I got that right?
Have things changed that much in a couple of decades?
Who or what is it that I must be prepared to kill? The salt water crocodile has made a huge comeback since they banned hunting them, but they haven't made it to Roche Harbour, have they?
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It's just a discussion amongst US citizens of how best to be incompliance with out various states' laws. Don't get yourself all wound up about it. There is risk every time you open your door and go out, even in supposedly peaceful Canada.
 
I just finishing viewing quite a few episodes of “Under Arrest” on NetFlix filmed in Canada. Only a few drive by shootings with AK47’s or handgun arrests. But lots of knives, look alike pellet pistols and attacks with lengths of rebar, hammers and machetes. When a particular weapon is legally restricted the next best un-restricted weapon will be used not only in Canada but everywhere, I guess it is human nature and the need to protect one self and love ones. I tried thinking of one place weapons are not needed for self protection if you don’t want to become a victim
 
I can think of only a three times in my life when I thought I might need to defend myself with a gun. Once in 1981 during a bad storm we sailed into the lee of Gun Cay along the south end lighthouse and right into a drug unloading between a houseboat and two cigarettes. We stayed as far away from them as we could, stayed off the radio, and put everyone below the waterline on the sole. I loaded my Remington Sportmans 58 and it promptly jammed. By the time I got it functional they were gone. Pump shotguns only!

The second time was in a purchase transaction where the other person threatened me. I was armed and extremely concerned I might have to defend myself. I took the beef to the local police station rather than getting mixed up in a gun fight. I truly needed my gun, but was unwilling to use it unless it came to the very last moment of NO OTHER CHOICE. Being trapped inside a boat or somewhere else is likely to result in the feeling of nowhere to escape to.

The third time is when some little hooded punk was coming to rob me when I was filling up my truck. I saw him eyeball me and change his course right for me. I was unarmed. I squared up to him and reached into the small of my back and essentially dared him to keep coming. My bluff worked. Here was a time I was prepared to use a gun and did not have it. The threat of a gun was all I needed.

I have never carried a gun on my boat with the single exception of the Bahamas story I mentioned. That time I would have gotten us all killed if I had shown it to a greatly superior force. My intention was to lie on the sole with my friends and use it as a last resort.

This topic is very much a personal choice. I would guess that most times you might actually need a gun it will be too late or more likely to get you killed. My home and my boat are both places I intend to defend as my sovereign territory. They also happen to be places I feel somewhat trapped in. I carry a gun situationally into situations that are potentially dangerous AND that I cannot avoid. Boat alarms and my 130 lb German Shepherd should be all the deterrent I need and thus I do not plan to be armed on my boat. Anyone who gets past my dog will make quick work of me. This could also be a very good reason to have a gun on board. I view this as a one in a million chance and prefer the mind set of not being armed. I reserve the right to act differently if those million to one odds change substantially.
 
Only 2 times for me, both in Bahamas. Mid ‘80’s doing diving in center of andros. A place called twin lakes. Approached by armed folks; more than likely in the transport business. We were camping, armed with only 1 12 gauge. 2nd time anchored at little harbour berries. Another illicit trade situation. Fishing boat with smaller skiffs in tow; mother ship just offshore in deep water. We were in a morgan 41, i curled up that nite with my hk91.

Of course, the blame is with the US demand?
 
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moparharn said:
I can think of only a three times in my life when I thought I might need to defend myself with a gun. Once in 1981 during a bad storm we sailed into the lee of Gun Cay along the south end lighthouse and right into a drug unloading between a houseboat and two cigarettes. We stayed as far away from them as we could, stayed off the radio, and put everyone below the waterline on the sole. I loaded my Remington Sportmans 58 and it promptly jammed. By the time I got it functional they were gone. Pump shotguns only!

The second time was in a purchase transaction where the other person threatened me. I was armed and extremely concerned I might have to defend myself. I took the beef to the local police station rather than getting mixed up in a gun fight. I truly needed my gun, but was unwilling to use it unless it came to the very last moment of NO OTHER CHOICE. Being trapped inside a boat or somewhere else is likely to result in the feeling of nowhere to escape to.

j
The third time is when some little hooded punk was coming to rob me when I was filling up my truck. I saw him eyeball me and change his course right for me. I was unarmed. I squared up to him and reached into the small of my back and essentially dared him to keep coming. My bluff worked. Here was a time I was prepared to use a gun and did not have it. The threat of a gun was all I needed.

I have never carried a gun on my boat with the single exception of the Bahamas story I mentioned. That time I would have gotten us all killed if I had shown it to a greatly superior force. My intention was to lie on the sole with my friends and use it as a last resort.

This topic is very much a personal choice. I would guess that most times you might actually need a gun it will be too late or more likely to get you killed. My home and my boat are both places I intend to defend as my sovereign territory. They also happen to be places I feel somewhat trapped in. I carry a gun situationally into situations that are potentially dangerous AND that I cannot avoid. Boat alarms and my 130 lb German Shepherd should be all the deterrent I need and thus I do not plan to be armed on my boat. Anyone who gets past my dog will make quick work of me. This could also be a very good reason to have a gun on board. I view this as a one in a million chance and prefer the mind set of not being armed. I reserve the right to act differently if those million to one odds change substantially.
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NO OTHEr CHOICE definitely my rule also, danger situation yes , my size 6’3” 210 helps but now that I’m among the ranks of the elderly conceal carry evens the odds ashore and afloat.
 
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There are just too many of them there.

Spoken like someone who's never been there. Gotta get out more, beautiful state, abundant forests and fishing, friendly people, what's not to like?
 
My experience....those that are prepared to meet violence are generally prepared for it and alert for it, therefore capable of recognizing and avoiding serious danger before it develops.

Vulnerable people are not prepared, fail to recognize it, and even with a gun are probably more dangerous (even with training) to themselves or bystanders.

Not anti gun, or pro gun... they are just tools and the craftsman has got to know which one and when to use. Not everyone, in fact few, are craftsman at handling bad situations.
 
Peasegrn said:
There are just too many of them there.

Spoken like someone who's never been there. Gotta get out more, beautiful state, abundant forests and fishing, friendly people, what's not to like?
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Oh, I have been there alright! Just amputate NYC and it's not so bad.
 
There have been several but the first time I "almost" had to use it was in the 70's in the New Mexico mountains with another couple and their young son. We were stopped, having some lunch when a truck with 3 or 4 guys in it stopped about 50 yards down the dirt road, eyeballing us. They watched us and we watched them. Our friends and I were doing some target practice before lunch and I still had a 6" .44 Mag S&W on the tailgate. I picked it up, let them see it and the promptly did a U-turn and drove off.

The other time I was a cop and to make a long story short, the bad guy took a shot at me from 40' away with a 12 gauge pump gun. Unfortunately I knew the diff between concealment and cover and he didn't. I introduced him to my "one and done" program and that brought a quick halt to his plans.
 
Rich, with respect, I would much rather frequent Manhattan than where you live any day, any month, any year. Each to his own. City folk, country folk, each different, all Americans.
rgano said:
Oh, I have been there alright! Just amputate NYC and it's not so bad.
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I use trip wires as a next to last defense. Wired to a device (not a gun) that fires a blank 12 gauge shell for a loud band and flash. My private dock is in a Columbia River county where a large number of people make their living stealing along with receiving food stamps and welfare. After someone tripped a wire, they leave me alone.
I've used the last defense twice, not counting the military. Once with a drug smuggler on the Sausalito commercial dock 40 years ago and once on this boat. Both times ended with nobody shot and everyone going their own way. But it would have been bad for me w/o a firearm.
 
OldDan1943 said:
To date, seldom if ever is a recreational boater 'attacked' while underway.
Lonely anchorages, maybe a few.
Consider traveling unarmed and if you feel the need for a gun at your destination, either keep moving or go ashore and buy a shotgun. The states are more accepting about someone buying a shotgun.

Final solution: slip the gun and ammo over the 'unseen' side of the boat.
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Your final paragraph proposes concealment. Why would you conceal if your conduct in possessing "the gun" was legal? That seems to be encouraging illegal possession, and concealment.
Not sure I like the reference to "Final solution" either.
 
catalinajack said:
Rich, with respect, I would much rather frequent Manhattan than where you live any day, any month, any year. Each to his own. City folk, country folk, each different, all Americans.
Click to expand...

As my Mom used to say when confronted with such conflictions, "There's no accounting for taste, said the old lady, as she kissed the cow.":)
 
BruceK said:
Your final paragraph proposes concealment. Why would you conceal if your conduct in possessing "the gun" was legal? That seems to be encouraging illegal possession, and concealment.
Not sure I like the reference to "Final solution" either.
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No disrespect intended.
 
rgano said:
It's just a discussion amongst US citizens of how best to be incompliance with out various states' laws. Don't get yourself all wound up about it. Still, they refuse to allow the general population to arm themselves. Of course criminals seem to be able to get guns, although it remains a mystery where they are coming from.
And yes, unavoidably, I am a foreigner, but I potentially have skin in this game. So, the question is, if I travel into US waters- Washington State or SE Alaska, do I need to arm myself? If I do, getting back on topic, will I be able to buy a gun on entry?
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Inbreaker said:
I take your point about about Canada. Still, they refuse to allow the general population to arm themselves. Of course criminals seem to be able to get guns, although it remains a mystery where they are coming from.
And yes, unavoidably, I am a foreigner, but I potentially have skin in this game. So, the question is, if I travel into US waters- Washington State or SE Alaska, do I need to arm myself? If I do, getting back on topic, will I be able to buy a gun on entry?
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Short answer: No. Use the same common sense that you use at home to avoid potentially dangerous situations and you'll be just fine.
 
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Greetings,
Mr. I. "...it remains a mystery where they are coming from." Organized crime. I would say the majority of illegal arms come in from the US.


As a Canadian I see no reason what-so-ever for the necessity of a firearm for personal protection, NONE. We do have our compliment of hunters, sport shooters and collectors so there are guns around and aside from gangs in the big cities, there is far less gun related violence in Canada compared with the US.


https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime
 
Inbreaker said:
I take your point about about Canada. Still, they refuse to allow the general population to arm themselves. Of course criminals seem to be able to get guns, although it remains a mystery where they are coming from.
And yes, unavoidably, I am a foreigner, but I potentially have skin in this game. So, the question is, if I travel into US waters- Washington State or SE Alaska, do I need to arm myself? If I do, getting back on topic, will I be able to buy a gun on entry?
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The City of Perth is the capital of Western Australia. In fairness, it`s not Inbreaker`s Perth. I doubt any Australian has that view of Canada, I`ve visited 5x, never finding "a hell hole of violence".
 
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For those that detest violence , remember a flair gun or launcher can not chamber shotgun rounds as the internal barrel is machined shorter,

A few min. on a lathe and the problem is solved.

Should a blank fired below deck not scare off the intruder, it is likely he/she will steal the flair unit.

When fitted with a real shotgun round and fired ,the modern shotgun powder the perp. may have his name changed to STUMPY.
 
Greetings,
Mr. OD. I think the muzzle velocity of a flare gun us below 500fps and is NOT considered a firearm.
 
Being a border town, we in Detroit have long suffered under the violence imported to our fair city from our southeastern border with Canada. Howe, Probert, Kocur, and many others peddled their violence in our stadium named for our great non-violent hero Joe Louis.

Seriously, Canada violent? I cannot speak for the ocean coastal areas, but the Canadian towns near the Great Lakes are some of the most placid, beautiful, and friendly places on earth. Toronto being a major city must present an exception to this, but isn't this how this whole thread got started? Major cities like New York and Toronto are not the kind of places I want to cruise to anyway. I will pass them by as quickly as possible, opting to visit them by car or plane instead. The day that Canada becomes a violent cess pool is the day it is all over for us humans. Love my neighbors to the north!
 
catalinajack said:
Rich, with respect, I would much rather frequent Manhattan than where you live any day, any month, any year. Each to his own. City folk, country folk, each different, all Americans.
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Data is available....

2021 Compare Crime Rates:
Panama City, FL vs New York, NY
Change Cities
Panama City, FL New York, NY United States
43.6 28.2 22.7
84.6 24.9 35.4

The Crime Indices range from 1 (low crime) to 100 (high crime). Our crime rates are based on FBI data.

YOU SHOULD KNOW
Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Property crime includes the offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. The object of the theft-type offenses is the taking of money or property, but there is no force or threat of force against the victims.
 
Crime data and liking a place may be light years apart.
 
FF said:
For those that detest violence , remember a flair gun or launcher can not chamber shotgun rounds as the internal barrel is machined shorter,

A few min. on a lathe and the problem is solved.

Should a blank fired below deck not scare off the intruder, it is likely he/she will steal the flair unit.

When fitted with a real shotgun round and fired ,the modern shotgun powder the perp. may have his name changed to STUMPY.
Click to expand...
Though I doubt anyone would be foolish enough to try this, once the flare chamber can
allow a shotgun shell to fit the flare pistol becomes a short barreled shotgun with the
associated felony for possession.
 
This hit on cities doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Stayed in the yacht basin on the Hudson side of Manhattan for the tall ships several times. Had a great time. Very safe and NYC is a wonderful place to visit.
Similarly with Baltimore which has a higher murder and violent crime rate.
Same with Miami.
Have a friend who visited London while staying in the Pool.
All cities have “good” and “bad” places.
As do most islands.
Use common and street sense. Use noonsite when in the islands and listen to the cruiser nets.
In the BVIs there was much talk about a cruiser who got shot at. What started as a dinghy theft rapidly escalated into a firefight once he took out his handgun. Fortunately he wasn’t injured. His boom, companion way, port lights and cockpit were riddled. Repair was more expensive than the value of the dinghy.
 
I used to live in Connecticut and took the train to Grand Central lots of weekends. I never once felt afraid for my personal safety, even in sketchy neighborhoods late at night, or the subway - and this was back when NYC was rough and gross and smelled like urine. The comfort that comes from familiarity probably. Boston or Philadelphia though, I clearly remember wanting to get out of there as soon as possible. In other words, I think a sense of danger depends a lot on familiarity and subjectivity, not hard stats or probabilities.
 
Sadly, what conditions were 5, 10, 20 years ago do not equate to conditions today.
It used to be safe to ride the NY subway.
 
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