What's The best that's good enough

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
MichaelD

MichaelD

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
96
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Athena
Vessel Make
Bayliner 4588
I have a question for all you experts. The question is "what's the best, most long-lasting varnish-like product?"

But first, a little context. I'm not trying do an immaculate restoration of a classic. Been there, done that. Decades ago, I had wooden boats and sanded/varnished my life away. Now, I just want to get a decent job on the cap rail of an old Bayliner. But, I've been out of the market so long, I don't know what the latest/greatest products are.

What's your informed opinion?

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Michael
 
Many will disagree, but I found decent results with Cetol. Just use the Natural Teak colour, followed by 2 coats of clear. To maintain, add one more coat of clear each year. Admittedly I have not done this type of work for several years, and products could have changed.
 
Cetol is a decent option. I did my pulpit teak last year with Interlux Perfection Plus after sanding to bare, smooth wood. After 6 coats, it came out looking as good as a really, really good varnish job with far more coats. And so far after a full season out in the sun, it looks every bit as good now. It's pricey and the fumes are awful, but it's easy enough to work with and if it holds up well... Plus it's completely clear, so if the wood looks good to start, it'll keep good color as you coat it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20200523_131220.jpg
    IMG_20200523_131220.jpg
    118.5 KB · Views: 45
  • IMG_20200608_090654.jpg
    IMG_20200608_090654.jpg
    124.9 KB · Views: 43
I put the second coat of Total Boat penetrating epoxy on my rails yesterday. It looks like varnish it even darkened my teak to an almost mahogany color. I will put a few coats of varnish on but I you could easily get away without any.
 
Cetol is the best compromise between easy and long lasting. It will never look as good as varnish or the two part products and it won’t last anywhere as long as two part product but for most it will look good enough. Two part finishes are much longer lasting and really not much harder than varnishing. I am really liking Awlwood but I have nothing bad to say about Bristol or Interlux.
 
Unless things have changed just recently, epoxy needs some kind of coating to protect it from the ultraviolet rays. Either paint or varnish.
 
MichaelD said:
I have a question for all you experts. The question is "what's the best, most long-lasting varnish-like product?"

But first, a little context. I'm not trying do an immaculate restoration of a classic. Been there, done that. Decades ago, I had wooden boats and sanded/varnished my life away. Now, I just want to get a decent job on the cap rail of an old Bayliner. But, I've been out of the market so long, I don't know what the latest/greatest products are.

What's your informed opinion?

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Michael
Click to expand...

Not an expert, but I know what I like looking at.
None of the previous posters dealt with your request for a "varnish-like" product. I have been varnishing since 1977. I have tried all the varnishes that I have heard of. I have also tried Cetol, that those other posters have suggested.
If you want varnish-like, you need varnish.
The current best on the market is Eifanes, without a doubt.
 
Which Epifanes product do you use? I tried it some years ago and found it was slow to dry, went white easily, and I really did not like it. There were two of us doing our boats at the same time and we both had similar experiences.

I realize what I did wrong with the whitening but the overall results were disappointing enough neither of us ever went back.
 
koliver said:
Not an expert, but I know what I like looking at.
None of the previous posters dealt with your request for a "varnish-like" product. I have been varnishing since 1977. I have tried all the varnishes that I have heard of. I have also tried Cetol, that those other posters have suggested.
If you want varnish-like, you need varnish.
The current best on the market is Eifanes, without a doubt.
Click to expand...

You took the OP’s question out of context and then you answered a question he didn’t ask.
 
I will second Interlux Perfection Plus.
Its a two part with UV, it last, this was on a swim step, so it gets lots of use, and is always wet. No complaints besides cost.
 

Attachments

  • 12.jpg
    12.jpg
    102.3 KB · Views: 31
tiltrider1 said:
Cetol is the best compromise between easy and long lasting. It will never look as good as varnish or the two part products and it won’t last anywhere as long as two part product but for most it will look good enough.
Click to expand...

Our real world experience with Cetol (even though we did not apply it) is based on the fact that 10+ years later that darn stuff is STILL holding on! :)

When we bought the boat, the PO had applied Cetol on all the exterior wood (including the teak decks!) a year or so prior. It looked OK, but we wanted to try something different. We initially tried to remove some, but it turned out to be more challenging than anticipated. So we decided to let "nature take its course" and allow the stuff to weather away for a few years, which we theorized would make it easier to remove.

9 years of ownership later, we are now getting the last of the Cetol off. Granted, the last few years it has begun to flake off on its own in some areas, but not in others. It's definitely much easier to remove, though. It has been looking pretty bad, but this year we will finally finish it. We were going to use Awlwood, but have decided to go with 2-part Deks Olje from Owatrol (D.1 and D.2):

https://www.owatrolusa.com/marine/

We will let y'all know how well it goes!
 
Here in Florida I've seen some boats done with Awlbrite Clear. When done according to the instructions, it seems to last /years/. The good news is one can do 2-3 coats per day and sanding between coats isn't needed or even recommended. The bad news is that it is really thin and ~10 coats (3-5 days of 2-3 coats per day) is recommended to get the longevity.

My boat was done with Awlwood, which is a dream to apply. 3 coats seems to get more than one year and less than 2 years. What I mean by that is that is that 1 year after I did it, it still looked really good. One more year later and it was flaking in places -- I'd waited too long to renew it.

My only "note" with Awlwood is that the coating seems to be water cured or catalyzed or something in that, when the can gets moist hot air in it, and it later condenses, the top skins over. If it is left out too long or too many times, it turns to gel. On really hot, humid days, if I've poured too much from the can to my cup, the stuff in the cup will start to gel. I've never tried thinning it (just poured less and less into my cup at a time).
 
tiltrider1 said:
Cetol is the best compromise between easy and long lasting. It will never look as good as varnish or the two part products and it won’t last anywhere as long as two part product but for most it will look good enough. Two part finishes are much longer lasting and really not much harder than varnishing. I am really liking Awlwood but I have nothing bad to say about Bristol or Interlux.
Click to expand...


After a lifetime of amateur boat maintenance, including varnishing, I agree that Cetol is the best compromise unless you are a masochist or a multimillionaire. That is, once Cetol got rid of that truly awful orange color.
 
​
gkesden said:
Just a note...Awlwood is a one part, at least in the sense that one can use it right from the can.
Click to expand...

Is it one part or two part that you put on one part at a time?

Technically it is a two part process. First a primer that needs 24 hours to cure and then you can add the gloss one coat every 4 hours. I put 4 coats of gloss on. Then I wait 24 hours and sand it with 400 grit. Then another 4 coats and I sand it with 600 grit. then one very thin final coat.

After that I come back every 3 to 4 years and hit it with 3 more coats of gloss.
 
tiltrider1 said:
​

Is it one part or two part that you put on one part at a time?

Technically it is a two part process. First a primer that needs 24 hours to cure and then you can add the gloss one coat every 4 hours. I put 4 coats of gloss on. Then I wait 24 hours and sand it with 400 grit. Then another 4 coats and I sand it with 600 grit. then one very thin final coat.

After that I come back every 3 to 4 years and hit it with 3 more coats of gloss.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does need a primer before the /very first ever/ top coat with it. But, it does not need that primer before additional coats, even when maintaining it years later.

It isn't, for example, like Awlbrite clear where you have to mix parts, let it induce, and use what you mixed before it goes bad. You can just pour it right from the can and use it. This is true of both the primer and top coat.

I have a feeling, just from the way it has cured for me in various weather that it is chemically a 2-part and that water, moisture from the air, is one part. But, I am basically making that up. It is just a self imagined model that matches my observations and helps me predict how much I can have in my working cup (the more humid, the hotter, the less I keep unsealed and outdoors while working)
 
Last edited:
Historic Vessel Vega who are in South East Asia recommend Jotun Woodshield


When you own a traditional wooden boat varnish is important. Over the years we tried them all from the expensive stuff to local brands and learned a lot along the way. Living in the tropics and spending the better part of the year at sea, Vega provides the perfect testbed. Here is what we learned. Most varnishes create a hard coating that cannot move with the wood or breath as humidity changes. That eventually causes them to start peeling away.
Then comes the question of UV protection. Most yacht varnish is designed for northern latitudes where UV is not a big problem. For us it is a serious consideration.
When I complained to a friend at Jotun about our time spent every year sanding, et al, and the expense of varnish, he sent me the following comment. “Try Jotun Woodshield. It is specially formulated to provide flexibility and deep penetration for exterior wooden surfaces, offers twice the UV protection, minimizes colour fading, and protects the wood from cracking, peeling, and erosion.” We took his advice, first on a few sample surfaces then on everything, and the stuff really works. And best of all a 5 litre tin costs less than a small can of Epifane.
Click to expand...

https://www.jotun.com/ap/en/b2c/products/wood-metal/woodshield/index.aspx
 
I have had Awlwood on for over four years in South Florida and Texas sun.

I have just touched up a few areas.

It is a very flexible product but you must learn to thin it and work with it. It dries with humidity. It is also very hard.

The finished product looks dipped in glass. So shows imperfections. Cetol looks dipped in motor oil.

Go to my blog, grandbankschoices, and you can see some of the places we have used it, and results.
 
I have become a big fan of Awlwood, having previously been quite satisfied with Cetol. There is no comparison between the two in terms of the quality and depth of finish...Awlwood looks fabulous. And in sub tropical Australian east coast conditions it lasts much better than Cetol. Gkesden above gave advice I'd completely agree with. I'd only add that it is best to apply the gloss coats on a warm, cloudy and humid day. Avoid application in full sun and very dry conditions. It is easy to apply 7-8 coats of gloss over the primer over a couple days....that should be maintenance free for 3~4 years, then add 2 coats of gloss in a half day for another 3 years of looking great. Beware the description of the two available (and essential) primers: the version described as Yellow is very red on teak; the Red primer is very, very dark red/mahogany on teak. I think the Yellow is fine so long as you are not expecting a light golden effect.
 
For those thinking of using Awlwood. Clear prime turns teak brown. As Aquabelle mentioned Yellow Prime adds a slight red to the teak and Red Primer turns it a deep red.
 
Moonfish said:
... 9 years of ownership later, we are now getting the last of the Cetol off. Granted, the last few years it has begun to flake off on its own in some areas, but not in others. It's definitely much easier to remove, though. It has been looking pretty bad, but this year we will finally finish it. We were going to use Awlwood, but have decided to go with 2-part Deks Olje from Owatrol (D.1 and D.2):

https://www.owatrolusa.com/marine/

We will let y'all know how well it goes!
Click to expand...
Be aware Deks Olje is not "2 part" as in an epoxy. Of 2 parts, #1 is a saturating oil, #2 is an optional gloss, polyurethane I think, to go over #1 if desired. If #2 is not used #1 can be refreshed by wiping over with a cloth using #1, maybe 3 monthly. #2 gloss, less glossy than Cetol or varnish, had an unprotected from the elements life around a year. You then wipe over with oil, using a scratchy sponge pad like for washing dishes, and apply more #2, maybe 4-5 coats, it`s relatively easy and quick but both 1 & 2 are thin and runny, and you need to mask and avoid runs.
Big job is initial wood preparation and saturation. Joy is that after 10 years there was no need to go back to bare wood. The people who bought the boat hated the finish, stripped it back, and varnished. Looks way better, but I expect they`ll be going back to bare wood regularly.
Deks Olje 1 & 2 is a trade off. Less work but lesser quality finish.
 
BruceK said:
Be aware Deks Olje is not "2 part" as in an epoxy. Of 2 parts, #1 is a saturating oil, #2 is an optional gloss, polyurethane I think, to go over #1 if desired. If #2 is not used #1 can be refreshed by wiping over with a cloth using #1, maybe 3 monthly. #2 gloss, less glossy than Cetol or varnish, had an unprotected from the elements life around a year. You then wipe over with oil, using a scratchy sponge pad like for washing dishes, and apply more #2, maybe 4-5 coats, it`s relatively easy and quick but both 1 & 2 are thin and runny, and you need to mask and avoid runs.
Big job is initial wood preparation and saturation. Joy is that after 10 years there was no need to go back to bare wood. The people who bought the boat hated the finish, stripped it back, and varnished. Looks way better, but I expect they`ll be going back to bare wood regularly.
Deks Olje 1 & 2 is a trade off. Less work but lesser quality finish.
Click to expand...
I really wanted Deks Olje to work. But it didn't last in BC coastal (wet) weather.
 
Another Cetol fan (or is it addict?) Gets a lot of positive comments from the dock-walkers. 5 years experience. The clear coats are important as the clear has the UV inhibitors and is much more resistant to water penetration in my experience. Lasts 2 or 3 seasons on my flybridge ladder steps, the most intensively stepped on wood on the boat.

Issues have been dealing with joints and cracks, but that's not the Cetol's fault. Rebedding joints in the rails, windows and doors has helped extend recoating time a lot.

The other stuff I use for small jobs is Helmsman Marine Spar Urethane in spray cans. Used that on various small bits of non-teak with good results so far.
 
Think it depends on how long you expect to own the boat. If it’s a “last boat” or close to it then the labor of wooding the boat , going through progressively less thinned coats and then final multiple unthinned coats of epifanes is worth it. Once done a very light sand once a year and recoating isn’t that hard to do. Cetol is ugly. Now doesn’t turn orange but is still ugly. Makes stuff look like synthetic wood.
Have used the Jutun line of products including putting woodshield on oars that are left out 24/7. Really good stuff.
 
Last edited:
Thank you!!

I have really enjoyed reading all the replies to my query, and am glad to see that through the years one thing has remained true amongst sailors: everybody has their own opinion.

To answer one point, yes, it is likely the "last boat", but that doesn't necessarily mean very long, given my age. I haven't decided yet which way to go, but most likely I will not take it all the way to virgin wood followed by Epifane. While I love the look, and had it on boats a few decades ago, I don't thing the juice is worth the squeeze at this point in my life.

So it will probably be either Awlwood or Cetol.
 
firehoser75 said:
Many will disagree, but I found decent results with Cetol. Just use the Natural Teak colour, followed by 2 coats of clear. To maintain, add one more coat of clear each year. Admittedly I have not done this type of work for several years, and products could have changed.
Click to expand...

After years of going back and forth between oil and varnish, I finally settled on Cetol as the best all around option as well.

Not as beautiful as a well done varnish job, but a heck of a lot easier to put on, and easy to tune up, and pretty enough for us!
 
Just finished a single topcoat of Cetol today. Our first since stripping to bare and applying 2 coats of Natural Teak and 2 coats of gloss 2 years ago. Granted, we've been under cover most of the time but I still think it looks pretty good for amateur's. Sorry, not a great picture...didn't know it would be needed tonight.:rofl:
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5484.jpg
    IMG_5484.jpg
    101 KB · Views: 24
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
To Varnish or not to Varnish that is the question
Replies
23
Views
6K
ronobrien
R
N
Advice Needed Please
2 3
Replies
84
Views
8K
Greg QS
Greg QS
G
Oh My God Not A Wooden Boat
2
Replies
49
Views
3K
garbler
G
S
Cap Rails - keeping it simple
Replies
1
Views
822
RonR
RonR
C
New member - Puget Sound
Replies
11
Views
2K
Capterik
C

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom