Is Part Time Cruising Possible?

Have used yacht management companies. Many exist scattered throughout the eastern Caribbean. Very hard to vet them. My experience has been the best way maybe simple word of mouth. That commonly requires being there actively cruising that area. Another helpful way is via brand owners groups.
It’s so nice getting off a plane and going to your boat. Cleaned, waxed, recently dove on, fully stocked. You’ve left your cruising clothes and gear on the boat so just throw off the lines and leave. Truly a luxury. You can contract any level of management you want. Don’t know your situation but at 60’ I would also entertain getting a full time captain. May ultimately be similar money and you would have a really good teacher to prepare you if and when you want to full time cruise without his/her services.

To the OP, the 10 percent per year guess/rule-of-thumb is for owners mostly maintaining their own boat. Every job I do I play the game "What would this cost if I had to pay someone?" When you pay for everything for remote ownership, plus a management company, 10 percent flys out the porthole PDQ IMHO.

At the higher cost end of the spectrum is Ken Williams who has documented his part time cruising travels for years. Part of his routine is to fly-in mechanics and experts to get the boat ready for him. He's a good, candid, and prolific writer and can be found at www.KensBlog.com

At the more modest end of the spectrum is a friend who owns a Willard 40 and cruises the Sea of Cortez a few months a year. He has done so for about 15 years. He stores the boat on the hard and has developed a relationship with the local boatyard. Being in Mexico, costs are reasonable. Dry storage seems to be key for him

Good luck

Peter

AlanT said:

I don't know how practical it is to 'store' a boat of the size you are considering. This would be a topic worthy of more input. Most boats this size are kept in the water which allows systems to be operated by a caretaker while the boat is not being used; Main Engines, Generators, Stabilizers, Air conditioners, Various pumps, head seals. None of which can be run with the boat stored on the hard. Things dry out on a boat on the hard, especially in hot climates. Seals degrade, lose their seal, problems arise. Nothing overwhelming but potentially time consuming to resolve on splashing.
~A

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Yes, this is something I had not considered. I assumed it was preferable to store for longer periods, on dry land. However, as you mention, leaving in the water allows for the boats systems to be run on a regular basis. But would storing on the water cost a lot more typically, than on blocks? If not, then I could see the benefit of doing this, as long as the wet storage does not add much other issues with wear and tear on the boat ie paint, bottom, etc.

Hippocampus said:

Have used yacht management companies. Many exist scattered throughout the eastern Caribbean. Very hard to vet them.

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Good to know they are available there. I’ll assume there a good ones along the East coast as well.

High Wire said:

When you pay for everything for remote ownership, plus a management company, 10 percent flys out the porthole PDQ IMHO.

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Yep, that confirms my fear!

mvweebles said:

At the higher cost end of the spectrum is Ken Williams who has documented his part time cruising travels for years. Part of his routine is to fly-in mechanics and experts to get the boat ready for him. He's a good, candid, and prolific writer and can be found at www.KensBlog.com

Peter

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Thanks for sharing this. I have checked out KensBlog in the past from it being mentioned elsewhere on this forum, but have not dove into it much. I’ll review it more thoroughly.

Nialltom said:

Yep, that confirms my fear!

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All those percentages depend on what you include and how you calculate but with a new boat and not counting depreciation, our experience is under the 10% number. What you need to do however is figure how you'll use it and do your own budgeting.

I'm coming back to this after a while away, so apologize for rehashing anything...


We really value(d) owning rather than chartering, and here's why.


- No matter how good the charter company, they will never maintain the boat the way you will, and will not make improvements the way you will. A charter boat will work fine (hopefully), but will have minimal appoints and finishing touches. After all, it's a rental.


- When it's your boat, it's set up the way you want it, everything is where you want it and where you left it, you can keep better things on board like stabilizing binoculars, hand held VHFs, your favorite coffee maker, etc. and it won't be trashed when you return.


- You can keep all your own clothes and gear on board. I can't even imagine the amount of crap we'd have to bring for a 2 month charter if we were really going to fully enjoy the charter. Heck, two pairs of muck boots take up a full rolling suitcase by them selves, plus foul weather gear, etc. If you own the boat, all that stuff is there ready and waiting for you.


- Because the boat is ready and waiting for you, travel to the boat is easy. We typically only took a carry on bag with personal stuff, because everything else was on the boat. But did often have a second bag of parts, supplies, or whatever was more conveniently bought at home and hand carried.


- When you own the boat, you can go use it when you want, for how ever long you want, and if weather suggests a change in schedule, you can do it. Your constraints are limited to your own personal time constraints, not a fixed window in time, selected and committed to a year in advance.


- The boat will be the boat you want, not whatever happens to be available. You are talking about a 60ish foot boat. I don't think there are many of those for charter, and if there are, they are probably crewed boats which is a totally different experience.


- If your boat is in good shape, leaving it for months is just not a big deal. Rig up remote monitoring for a few vitals, have someone local who can check on things if there is a problem, then go. We always left power on , heat or HVAC on but at reduced temps, refrigerator and freezer on. Then when you return, all you need is some milk for coffee and you can move right back in. The grocery shop for perishables at your leisure, and push off the dock when you are ready.


- To leave the boat, have a good checklist. Turn off stuff other than the basics above, dispose of perishables, turn up or down the heat, and leave. And because you leave all the boat clothes and gear on the boat, your return trip is light on luggage too.


Now all of this ignores the comparative financials, and only you can assess how that factors in for you. But chartering isn't cheap, and if you are doing so for 2-4 months a year, it's hard for me to believe that's any cheaper than the carrying cost of owning a boat. If you own, you have cash tied up in the purchase cost, or more carrying cost in a loan, but if it's a good boat and well kept, you will get most of that back when you sell.

Nialltom said:

Yep, that confirms my fear!

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I think for what you are talking about, a Yacht Management Company is seriously overkill.

twistedtree said:

I think for what you are talking about, a Yacht Management Company is seriously overkill.

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Yacht Management companies can be as much or as little as you want. I have a friend who owns one and some of his clients, he just periodically checks on the boat and runs it. If he finds problems, he contacts the owner and if the owner wants them addressed, he arranges it. He coordinates with vendors as needed although he will provide minor maintenance himself. But basically a yacht management company may just check on things for you in your absence and follow up on anything you ask. Hands, eyes, ears on site when you can't be.

This need may vary by location. In some areas, marinas might provide these services. In South Florida, they don't, although often have yacht management companies on site they will refer you to. In some places, yards and marinas are tied together. In South Florida, they generally are not. Marinas are simply places to dock and yards are places to get work done. This means you often need someone to run the boat to and from the yard.

Yacht management companies have a wealth of contacts for any type work you need. On 50-70' boats they often provide these services so you don't feel the need for any full time crew.

Nialltom said:

Yes, this is something I had not considered. I assumed it was preferable to store for longer periods, on dry land. However, as you mention, leaving in the water allows for the boats systems to be run on a regular basis. But would storing on the water cost a lot more typically, than on blocks? If not, then I could see the benefit of doing this, as long as the wet storage does not add much other issues with wear and tear on the boat ie paint, bottom, etc.

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You would think that storing out of water would be less than in water. However you have to add the cost of roundtrip haulout. Also in the areas you identify (Bahamas, Caribbean) your storage will need to include hurricane prep and limited space being at a premium. We stored out of water in Virgin Gorda (BVI). The cost, including hurricane prep, lashing the boat to the ground etc etc. provision of electricity, haulout roundtrip, weekly caretaker, was certainly not cheaper than keeping her in the water (which is not an option in that area June-December). ~A

BandB said:

All those percentages depend on what you include and how you calculate but with a new boat and not counting depreciation, our experience is under the 10% number. What you need to do however is figure how you'll use it and do your own budgeting.

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BandB - Your experience is under 10% (not counting depreciation) for mostly non-DIY yacht mgmt type commissioning and de-commissioning work, along with other costs of ownership, on a fairly new or lightly used boat? If true, that’s encouraging to hear.

Nialltom said:

Hi all,

Been reading this forum for a while and soaking up all the knowledge I can.

I am in the planning/research stage of eventually purchasing a boat for cruising the ICW, Bahamas, maybe farther into the Carib, and if all goes well and we eventually have more time to dedicate, maybe even the Great Loop. And if all goes really well, perhaps beyond.

For the first several years of owning though, we (family of 4 with 2 kids) will be on board and cruising for just 1-2 months at a time. We live in the Midwest so will need to fly to where we have the boat stored. Will probably have something in the 60’ range. Really like the Fleming 58, but am also looking at Nordhavn, Selena, and a few others.

Cruising for 1-2 months at a time, maybe twice a year, and storing the boat out of state when we are at home and not able to use her. I am wondering if this is realistic to do. I know boats like to get used. Is it reasonable to expect to be able to regularly store the boat for several months at a time without damage, or systems going bad from lack of use?

Have you or others you know of done this type of ‘part-time cruising’ successfully? If so, what would I need to know going into it, and what steps or methods have others employed to make this work? Or is it a pipe dream?

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Fleming, Nordhavn, Selena for 1-2 times a year? Big names, a large price tag on top of operation experience. No disrespect, but you would be better off chartering.

We’ve stored both in water at IGY in St. Lucia and out of the water in the southern bays in Grenada. Used yacht management to check on the boat’ batteries, bilge, and general integrity with a brief visit supplemented by remote monitoring. Did do some projects we had deferred while we were absent ( chasing electronics glitches, troubleshooting an AC unit, maintenance on a turbo, hull waxing, things like that).
Costs were nearly the same. Of course in water you need periodic dives or at least one shortly before your return. On the hard you pay for the out and in but you can get your bottom done without the expense of a short haul just for that chore. On the hard less frequent visits are necessary which cuts costs. When storing in the tropics for a long time you may want a cover to protect from UV damage. We had a light weight cloth one built and installed. Very worthwhile as it also keeps dirt and birds off. . But then need to have it removed before very strong winds.
So think that decision depends on
Where you are
How long you’ll be gone and when in the seasons
When the absence will be in terms of your maintenance and/or repair schedule.
Theft risk.

BTW dry stacks can be run out of the water. Wet, AC etc. also if water can be brought to the boat and plumbed into the intakes. Additional hassle and expense but if you throw money at it you can do just about anything.

One of the best posts here imho is that of TT. Totally agree with him. Much prefer owning and not having my boat chartered out. Also note if your flying down with visitors you can coordinate with your yacht management and their relationship with local vendors to have the boat stocked with food and fluids you want just before your arrival . So pleasant to land, get to the boat and just leave with your friends. Generally take just a waterproof knapsack on the plane. (occasionally a suitcase with boat bits in between clothes but don’t tell custom. We are always a vessel in transit).

Nialltom said:

BandB - Your experience is under 10% (not counting depreciation) for mostly non-DIY yacht mgmt type commissioning and de-commissioning work, along with other costs of ownership, on a fairly new or lightly used boat? If true, that’s encouraging to hear.

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Dunno about how the numbers really break down, but it's my experience that anytime someone starts focusing on 'encouraging numbers' they might not be fully prepared for the budget-busting realities of boat ownership.

Unless a boat is beat to all hell it really isn't going to make much difference on it being 'fairly new' or 'lightly used'. A boat sitting unused is a magnet for maintenance. Sun kills varnish, wax, paint, fabric, you name it. Unless something's covering, or someone is cleaning or re-doing those regularly the sun will ruin them. And changes in temp and humidity will attract mold, so something better be managing that too.

But it's probably also good to circle back to the notion of dragging your family out on month-long excursions. It would be a VERY good plan to do this once or twice by charter to make SURE that everyone can tolerate the kind of changes that are necessary in their lifestyle to do this.

Having just been through the kids phase of my life (both daughters in their 20s), I would say (too much) DIY during those years is a waste of precious time.

If you're keeping it "in", I'd say to buy a slip/condo somewhere. Also, the associated cost per foot is in a pretty standard range, so no need to call a bunch of boatyards asking haul and bottom wash etc. numbers. You should be able to get into a ballpark that reveals go/no-go....

There's several charter companies in the back of Passage Maker, Great Loop Assoc, MTOA mags etc.

There's varying degrees of chartering as well. Take look into what's involved,...Point A to B vs. just time...Captain, captain and crew, who stocks food and beverage...

If I were in your shoes, this (as was said) is where I'd be looking at getting my proverbial feet wet.

My .02

twistedtree said:

We really value(d) owning rather than chartering, and here's why.

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TwistedTree, everything you said there really resonates with me and was the general gut feeling I had in my thoughts on chartering vs owning.

Over the last few days, I’ve tried looking for charter boats in the areas I’m interested in chartering and as I suspected, the pickings are slim, unless you want to go for something above 100’. And there are even fewer available of the caliber of boat I would want to own (finishes, craftsmanship, and overall build quality).

Of the few I found that were in the trawler category, the cost for a boat in the 55-65’ range, for a 3 month charter that I’d be looking to do at least once a year, came to $120k - $150k, for 3 months! Now, perhaps there would be some discount available for a long term charter of that variety (if they even do that). But even knocking 10-15% off that number is still a huge cost just to charter.

I’ve got to imagine that ownership costs start to make more sense to those who want to be on the boat for more than a month or so a year. I’ll keep looking at charter options, but so far, what I’m seeing is not encouraging. Of course, I have not yet priced out the services of yacht management! But at least I have something to compare to now.

Nialltom said:

TwistedTree, everything you said there really resonates with me and was the general gut feeling I had in my thoughts on chartering vs owning.

Over the last few days, I’ve tried looking for charter boats in the areas I’m interested in chartering and as I suspected, the pickings are slim, unless you want to go for something above 100’. And there are even fewer available of the caliber of boat I would want to own (finishes, craftsmanship, and overall build quality).

Of the few I found that were in the trawler category, the cost for a boat in the 55-65’ range, for a 3 month charter that I’d be looking to do at least once a year, came to $120k - $150k, for 3 months! Now, perhaps there would be some discount available for a long term charter of that variety (if they even do that). But even knocking 10-15% off that number is still a huge cost just to charter.

I’ve got to imagine that ownership costs start to make more sense to those who want to be on the boat for more than a month or so a year. I’ll keep looking at charter options, but so far, what I’m seeing is not encouraging. Of course, I have not yet priced out the services of yacht management! But at least I have something to compare to now.

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We chartered heavily the year before buying. The boats we were considering were available. We were on many boats from a week to six weeks at a time. I don't have the details in front of me but think we chartered a total of 9 or 10 boats.

So, following up on twisted tree's post. You have to use a boat more than you will for owning to financially save you money vs. chartering. We found the cutoff to be somewhere between 4 and 8 months. Another financial issue is how long are you likely to keep the boat.

Chartering also avoids worries about maintenance issues and tremendous flexibility as to locations and different boats.

But then all the reasons twisted tree points out influenced us. Ultimately, it's all emotional. We wanted it to be "mine, mine, mine" not someone else's. We don't want to move on and off. When we fly home to FL from Boston and then back to the boat we've left there for three weeks, we can travel light, typically no luggage.

We don't want other people sleeping and doing other things in our bed. Don't bring up hotels as they bother me too. Guess I know what we've done in hotel rooms. We want to know where everything is without thinking and how it handles various conditions and we want flexibility in schedule.

Now, that's us and only you can know yourself. There are a lot of people today who prefer Airbnb and VRBO to owning a vacation home.

Where we do highly recommend chartering is in figuring things out, checking out boats, checking our locales, learning about your and your family's real feelings about extended time on boats. You'll learn what you like but more importantly what you absolutely can't stand. It may be key to happiness on the water. Things like steps and stairs and ladders. Things like galley up or down. We could never tolerate not having a washer and dryer but some like doing volume less frequently at laundry facilities.

Like most of boating, chartering or owning is seldom a financial decision. I will however toss out the one exception to that. If you're an infrequent user you can financially benefit in some locations by owning but putting your boat in a charter group. A couple in SW FL and in the PNW and then Moorings in many locations. Just not our idea of boat ownership. Guess my wife and I are only children (by birth) and we just don't like to share.

BandB said:

Yacht Management companies can be as much or as little as you want. I have a friend who owns one and some of his clients, he just periodically checks on the boat and runs it. If he finds problems, he contacts the owner and if the owner wants them addressed, he arranges it. He coordinates with vendors as needed although he will provide minor maintenance himself. But basically a yacht management company may just check on things for you in your absence and follow up on anything you ask. Hands, eyes, ears on site when you can't be.



This need may vary by location. In some areas, marinas might provide these services. In South Florida, they don't, although often have yacht management companies on site they will refer you to. In some places, yards and marinas are tied together. In South Florida, they generally are not. Marinas are simply places to dock and yards are places to get work done. This means you often need someone to run the boat to and from the yard.



Yacht management companies have a wealth of contacts for any type work you need. On 50-70' boats they often provide these services so you don't feel the need for any full time crew.

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Point taken. I read more into “Yacht Management Company” than I should have. Having someone available to look in on the boat either on a regular basis or on demand I agree is a good thing. But also lots of ways to do that. I have relied on local pros, but also on other local boaters. It all depends on the situation. What’s not required, though you may choose to have it, is a “James, ready the boat. Lovey and I will arrive tomorrow” type of service.

Vadim said:

Fleming, Nordhavn, Selena for 1-2 times a year? Big names, a large price tag on top of operation experience. No disrespect, but you would be better off chartering.

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Yes, 1-2 times a year for 2-3 months at a time. A large initial purchase - yes. But with quality boats comes good resale value, if well maintained.

You think I’d be better off paying $120-150k for a 3 month charter? Each year? Maybe twice a year?

A nice dream totally impractical. The problem is the two kids and the wife.
I recommend that you charter a boat for 3 weeks and find out at the end of the trip how much futher boating each member of the family is willing to stomach. You may but they may prefer to do other things.

Don't ask me how I found out this.

Rolo

rolomart3 said:

A nice dream totally impractical. The problem is the two kids and the wife.
I recommend that you charter a boat for 3 weeks and find out at the end of the trip how much futher boating each member of the family is willing to stomach. You may but they may prefer to do other things.

Don't ask me how I found out this.

Rolo

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This must be a family decision on a family endeavor. If all the family isn't already fully involved, you've already screwed up. You should already be seeing what the level of enthusiasm is and where it might go for each member of the family. I'll caution that he/she convinced against their will, remains unconvinced still.

If you do multiple charters throughout the year, you should consider renting a "you store it" room so you dont have to tote everything back and forth.

Ah, tire-kicking and notions about 'resale value' are nothing new to any boating forum. Lots of folks have dreams and many realize them. Always nice.

There's a lucky few that never get the idea off the ground, their marriages and bank accounts remain unscathed.

But then there's the really unlucky ones that barge full steam ahead with their fantasy only to have reality give them a repeating series of cold buckets of water to the face. Wife hates it, family hates it, unexpected realities of boat expenses bleed them dry (providing yet more fodder for marital tensions). Meanwhile a boat that needs attention isn't getting it and what value it has rapidly declines.

So, which is it for this thread?

Due to issues inside my wife’s family spent the time and effort to take a serious look at home schooling. Things worked so we didn’t need to do it.
Turns out there’s a very strong community of home schooling inside the Caribbean cruiser community. There’s even sharing of this responsibility among boats with one person teaching math and another English and another science etc. in places like George Town Bahamas or LeMarin Martinique or English harbor. Kids repetitively run into each other as boats move so peer level socialization occurs.
We’ve run into quite a few cruising families. Kids are more plastic and tend to do fine. Adolescents and teenagers who haven’t had prior experience of the lifestyle seem to be more prone to difficulties adjusting and miss a stable school and circle of friends. It’s a deal breaker when it doesn’t work out.
Of course, happy wife = happy life. It needs to be her boat as much as yours. But that goes without saying.

AlanT- also looked at the Spanish town or Nanny key options. Looked at those numbers and decided to go to Grenada as we wanted a summer off to do other things. Went to Upper Woburn and hauled. Cost was half of what it would have been in BVI as insurance was less and yacht management/yard fees less as well.
He’s thinking of a fairly large boat. He can get out of the zone to southern Grenada or Trinidad easily. Yards are surprisingly good and less expensive. Fuel was much less expensive in Grenada and expect it is in Trinidad as well.

Our experience is limited to the Great Lakes where the 4-5 month summer boating season is akin to NIALLTOM's proposed operating regimen. It took me two days to put it away last Fall (haul, bottom wash, move to inside storage, offload, disconnect batteries, wax half the hull). This Spring it took two days to get it ready to put back in the water (provisioning, wax the other half, reconnect the batteries) plus one day waiting on the yard to move it to the launch basin. I do all maintenance myself...much of it after it's in the water. It's inside when on the hard, so sun/snow/water damage, etc is not an issue. Storage during the summer months (if so desired) is considerably less than slip rental. I'd guess storing it on the hard for extended periods is the most logical regardless climate. Perhaps cover it if outside, although the sun issue is the same whether in or out of the water.

I know it's a wild ideas, but I could argue to find a "kind of partner".....


Not really a partner, but a caretaker that would share the boat with you, take care of it and use it himself. It would be a joint venture, and he'd have a little skin in the game but might not want to afford a full time Fleming.


I've done that with aircraft, but not boats, and it's worked out excellent. Had a plane that I didn't want to "sit" while I was on extended boating. Found a guy who also wanted to use it and had the ability to maintain it. I got him qualified to fly it, made him a heck of a deal to use it and it worked great. When I came back, it was ready for me without any issues, and in a known condition. He would do the minor maintenance and cleaning but we hired out major stuff. Also, my friend would reposition it for me which also worked out great. The best benefit with this is keeping it running and used, and keeping the maintenance up.



Now, finding that guy might be a challenge, but bet there are plenty qualified right here on this forum. Heck, if my boating needs were a bit different, I'd consider an arrangement like that. A 50+ ft boat is just too big for my part of the world.



I enjoy doing some of the upkeep and maintenance work, but hire out the hard stuff.... but I keep track of it. Works for me.

Seevee said:

I've done that with aircraft, but not boats, and it's worked out excellent.

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The difference being defined and required maintenance? That certainly raises the bar on everyone understanding what has to be done and the expenses associated with it. There's nothing equivalent to aircraft FAA requirements for boats.