Travels of "Emma B" (JD powered Helmsman)
- Thread starter Durant F
- Start date
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Durant F
Guru
Cool and rainy night yesterday evening so I spent an enjoyable few hours sorting and deleting pictures from last winters cruise.
It’s amazing how pictures can take you right back to a specific memory and experience. I take too many and then try to sort out the best.
Two things struck me doing the sorting...
1-what an absolutely beautiful time to head north. The scenery truly is better than summer!
2-what a great little cruiser the Camano is.
If you live on the west coast I strongly advice you to do a winter cruise if you never have. You’ll be treated to snow capped mountains and anchorages all to yourself.
And... take your camera
It’s amazing how pictures can take you right back to a specific memory and experience. I take too many and then try to sort out the best.
Two things struck me doing the sorting...
1-what an absolutely beautiful time to head north. The scenery truly is better than summer!
2-what a great little cruiser the Camano is.
If you live on the west coast I strongly advice you to do a winter cruise if you never have. You’ll be treated to snow capped mountains and anchorages all to yourself.
And... take your camera
Durant F
Guru
I find it interesting how society has changed..
When I moved back home after college and working several years in 1984, I purchased 2 3-wheelers to go to the hunt camp with. The big one was a 200 and was a typical large bike. “Big Reds” by Honda we’re only 250s.
Now everything is huge! Most are too big to even blaze trails! If I want to run roads, I’d take my 4x4 truck...
Years ago snowmobiling there were 250s, 300s, 340s were a really nice sled and 440s were awesome! The 440s then were in the 45-50hp range. Now, you can’t even buy a 440. All are 550 and way up with hp approaching 200 in the top sleds.
Homes back then were smaller... way smaller...
Many had one bathroom and one tv. Now..... crazy ....
I reflect on this as comments come back on Emma B
All showings state how beautiful the boat is and what great shape she is in. The majority seem to feel she is underpowered.
I got hooked on west coast cruising joining the lads on a friends big ole 40ft, aft cabin Trawler powered by a single 120hp Ford-Lehman. We had a hoot and saw incredible scenery and went all over on that boat!
Most Kadey-Kroger 39s, very heavy and capable cruisers, are as well powered by a JD 4045 industrial engines but at 120hp
Most Nordhavn 40s, incredible vessels that have circumnavigated, are powered by JD 4045s
By these standards, Emma B is grossly over powered.
I’m a sailor first... no apology, I powered Emma B knowing that I’d be cruising in remote areas and wanting the durability, reliability and long life of a low rpm engine that could go forever at displacement speeds. Most trawlers travel in the 6.5-8 knot range the majority of the time as if I’d both economical and quieter.
I fully understand some feel speed is important and like faster passages.
As you’ve seen in my posts, lots can be seen quietly and economically at 6.5 to 7 knots as well.
Hope everyone has an awesome summer!!
When I moved back home after college and working several years in 1984, I purchased 2 3-wheelers to go to the hunt camp with. The big one was a 200 and was a typical large bike. “Big Reds” by Honda we’re only 250s.
Now everything is huge! Most are too big to even blaze trails! If I want to run roads, I’d take my 4x4 truck...
Years ago snowmobiling there were 250s, 300s, 340s were a really nice sled and 440s were awesome! The 440s then were in the 45-50hp range. Now, you can’t even buy a 440. All are 550 and way up with hp approaching 200 in the top sleds.
Homes back then were smaller... way smaller...
Many had one bathroom and one tv. Now..... crazy ....
I reflect on this as comments come back on Emma B
All showings state how beautiful the boat is and what great shape she is in. The majority seem to feel she is underpowered.
I got hooked on west coast cruising joining the lads on a friends big ole 40ft, aft cabin Trawler powered by a single 120hp Ford-Lehman. We had a hoot and saw incredible scenery and went all over on that boat!
Most Kadey-Kroger 39s, very heavy and capable cruisers, are as well powered by a JD 4045 industrial engines but at 120hp
Most Nordhavn 40s, incredible vessels that have circumnavigated, are powered by JD 4045s
By these standards, Emma B is grossly over powered.
I’m a sailor first... no apology, I powered Emma B knowing that I’d be cruising in remote areas and wanting the durability, reliability and long life of a low rpm engine that could go forever at displacement speeds. Most trawlers travel in the 6.5-8 knot range the majority of the time as if I’d both economical and quieter.
I fully understand some feel speed is important and like faster passages.
As you’ve seen in my posts, lots can be seen quietly and economically at 6.5 to 7 knots as well.
Hope everyone has an awesome summer!!
Nomad Willy
Guru
Durant wrote;
“The majority seem to feel she is underpowered.”
Indeed. And I’ll say the “majority” aren’t of a trawler mindset.
But if you wanted to go slower you’d need a different hull design. The one you’ve got is designed for 12 to 18knots cruise.
By the way I like your post above. Very few see through the speed smog.
“The majority seem to feel she is underpowered.”
Indeed. And I’ll say the “majority” aren’t of a trawler mindset.
But if you wanted to go slower you’d need a different hull design. The one you’ve got is designed for 12 to 18knots cruise.
By the way I like your post above. Very few see through the speed smog.
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Durant F
Guru
I knew you would appreciate going slower Eric.
You definitely have a true displacement hull.
I fine design!
The Camano hull certainly is capable of higher speeds if you want to burn that much fuel!
Every Camano owner I have met “cruises” in the 6-8 knot range... not 12-18 as you state. In fact very few are capable of even approaching 18 and if they are, it’s wide open with near empty tanks and lightly laden. Certainly not what you would call “cruise speed”...
In fact early ones with the 150 Volvo’s (or were they 140s?) were incapable of much more than 12 or 13 wide open. Certainly not a “cruise” speed for them as well..
Emma B can definitely keep up with the others at the speeds they typically cruise at.
She can’t “sprint” like they can though ��
Bottom line is any Camano that is provisioned and laden for a cruise, with gear aboard and full tanks, ain’t going to be “cruising” at 12-18...
Just saying...
Or, if they are trying to, it best be an extremely short cruise and with multiple fuels stops available on their route.
The larger fuel, water and holding tanks on the Helmsman help give the design more range and therefore more cruisability, albeit with the extra weight when full.
Emma B is a fine displacement trawler.... as my travels atest
Lots to see at 6-8 Eric... you can atest to that with your travels as well..
You definitely have a true displacement hull.
I fine design!
The Camano hull certainly is capable of higher speeds if you want to burn that much fuel!
Every Camano owner I have met “cruises” in the 6-8 knot range... not 12-18 as you state. In fact very few are capable of even approaching 18 and if they are, it’s wide open with near empty tanks and lightly laden. Certainly not what you would call “cruise speed”...
In fact early ones with the 150 Volvo’s (or were they 140s?) were incapable of much more than 12 or 13 wide open. Certainly not a “cruise” speed for them as well..
Emma B can definitely keep up with the others at the speeds they typically cruise at.
She can’t “sprint” like they can though ��
Bottom line is any Camano that is provisioned and laden for a cruise, with gear aboard and full tanks, ain’t going to be “cruising” at 12-18...
Just saying...
Or, if they are trying to, it best be an extremely short cruise and with multiple fuels stops available on their route.
The larger fuel, water and holding tanks on the Helmsman help give the design more range and therefore more cruisability, albeit with the extra weight when full.
Emma B is a fine displacement trawler.... as my travels atest
Lots to see at 6-8 Eric... you can atest to that with your travels as well..
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Frank,
You missed my point.
I wasn’t talking bout speeds people usually go.
I was talking about what speeds the hull was designed to run at. Being a planing hull with the required power the 31 Camano should be capable of cruising at 25 or more knots. But of course if you put too much weight onboard she’ll fall short.
What percent of power would you need to run continuously at 12 knots? And are you overloaded?
And an important element of this is how the designers and builders decided on what power to install in the boat. Knowing they had a planing hull in a trawler marketplace I would submit that they would be heavily inclined to underpower the boat .. at least to some degree. That would be an overpowered trawler (where it works nicely) or an underpowered Cruiser .. where it would not.
No boat operates continuously “on the hump” so it’s not surprising that Camano owners don’t cruise at 11-12 knots. You’d be better off w a longer hull for that speed.
But the boat (as a whole) is wonderful. At one point .. probably 14 years ago or so I was in a mindset to own a Camano myself. Was looking at them. But one of the significant reasons I bought my Willard 30 was that it didn’t have a FB. A pervious owner thoughtfully removed it. But most people like the FB.
Frank,
Since this isn’t intended to be a hull analysis thread I’ll limit this input here to the above.
You missed my point.
I wasn’t talking bout speeds people usually go.
I was talking about what speeds the hull was designed to run at. Being a planing hull with the required power the 31 Camano should be capable of cruising at 25 or more knots. But of course if you put too much weight onboard she’ll fall short.
What percent of power would you need to run continuously at 12 knots? And are you overloaded?
And an important element of this is how the designers and builders decided on what power to install in the boat. Knowing they had a planing hull in a trawler marketplace I would submit that they would be heavily inclined to underpower the boat .. at least to some degree. That would be an overpowered trawler (where it works nicely) or an underpowered Cruiser .. where it would not.
No boat operates continuously “on the hump” so it’s not surprising that Camano owners don’t cruise at 11-12 knots. You’d be better off w a longer hull for that speed.
But the boat (as a whole) is wonderful. At one point .. probably 14 years ago or so I was in a mindset to own a Camano myself. Was looking at them. But one of the significant reasons I bought my Willard 30 was that it didn’t have a FB. A pervious owner thoughtfully removed it. But most people like the FB.
Frank,
Since this isn’t intended to be a hull analysis thread I’ll limit this input here to the above.
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FWT
Guru
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2020
- Messages
- 1,520
- Vessel Name
- Resilient
- Vessel Make
- Helmsman Trawlers 38E
Eric, what you say about the speeds is generally true, but not true of the Camano. Per Helmsman, who now builds them.
The hull-form is somewhat unique, called "keel form" hull. The design significantly reduces the bow wave one needs to climb over in the speeds just over hull speed. It produces a smooth fuel efficiency curve up to 15. But the hull form becomes unstable above 15. Hence, Helmsman will power them to approach but not exceed 15. Per Helmsman. And you can run them at the speeds you like up to 15 without paying the penalty of "the wall" effect normally between hull speed and planing speed.
There is an old Camano promo film on YouTube that discusses it.
The hull-form is somewhat unique, called "keel form" hull. The design significantly reduces the bow wave one needs to climb over in the speeds just over hull speed. It produces a smooth fuel efficiency curve up to 15. But the hull form becomes unstable above 15. Hence, Helmsman will power them to approach but not exceed 15. Per Helmsman. And you can run them at the speeds you like up to 15 without paying the penalty of "the wall" effect normally between hull speed and planing speed.
There is an old Camano promo film on YouTube that discusses it.
Durant F
Guru
It is with very mixed feelings that I confirm Emma B has been sold.
Her new owners are sailors like myself and appreciate the boats build quality, low speed frugality and dependable economy of the JD engine.
She has safely taken me many places and we have had wonderful adventures, all at around 6.5 knots. I’ll admit to be more than a bit melancholy as I look back over pictures. She is a beautiful boat that always drew compliments wherever she went,
I’d like to thank Scott for always going above and beyond with follow up support.
The quality of the factory work coupled with Scott’s honesty and integrity have made my decision to move forward with a new 38 build worry free.
I can attest that “his word is good”... a rare quality at times these days.
The fact that there are multiple orders ahead of me attests to all the above statements.
The next chapter awaits....
Her new owners are sailors like myself and appreciate the boats build quality, low speed frugality and dependable economy of the JD engine.
She has safely taken me many places and we have had wonderful adventures, all at around 6.5 knots. I’ll admit to be more than a bit melancholy as I look back over pictures. She is a beautiful boat that always drew compliments wherever she went,
I’d like to thank Scott for always going above and beyond with follow up support.
The quality of the factory work coupled with Scott’s honesty and integrity have made my decision to move forward with a new 38 build worry free.
I can attest that “his word is good”... a rare quality at times these days.
The fact that there are multiple orders ahead of me attests to all the above statements.
The next chapter awaits....
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Durant F
Guru
Jeff... Sept 22.
Works out ok as I have other boating plans thus fall/winter
They’ve had a good run on 38s!
Yep Dave... I’m thinking the 38 will in fact be more gooderer ������
Works out ok as I have other boating plans thus fall/winter
They’ve had a good run on 38s!
Yep Dave... I’m thinking the 38 will in fact be more gooderer ������
Congrats. You are living my dream. We just purchased a Camano Troll after cruising a couple of years on a 22 C-Dory. Love it. The Helmsman 38 is my dream boat in 10 years when we retire. Looking forward to hearing your experiences. (And please take good care of her...I may buy it off you in 10 years )
I really enjoyed seeing the pictures and hearing your descriptions of your cruises. I love the late season as well, so maybe you will see my boat up there next season. Glad to hear of your new boat. I needed 2 cabins for potential guests, but the thought of a Helmsman for single cruising is appealing!
Durant F
Guru
The Cory 22 is awesome at what it does. I owned one’d several years ago and took her across the Gulf Stream to Bahamas. Quite a handful docking in a wind with the flat bottom. “Coming in hot”;took on a whole new meaning
Enjoy your Camano... a very fine boat!
And yes... I’ll take good care of the 38 for youn
