Forward Slope Pilot House Windows

tell me about these forward sloping pilot house windows please.....

As I'm dreaming of a retirement boat and I'm looking around online, I've grown to really like the look of boats with this style. They just look smart to me....
kadey krogen, nordhavn, selenes have them....
other boats that I otherwise like the looks of such as Park Isle's Royal Passagemaker don't have them and for some reason I'm finding this to be something I'm putting into in the negative column.

I guess it seems like they might be good at reducing glare or reflections, they offer more shade and less greenhouse affect inside, seems like they might be a little less likely to have leaking issues since rain wouldn't be hitting them as directly.
What do I have wrong?
What am I missing about this design detail?

I think you're right on all points. Glare during the day, reflections at night, less solar gain and likely improved water-tightness. What's not to like?


If I understand the opposition to them they look less "sleek" possibly important at speeds much higher than the average trawler will ever see. Baring of course, finding the edge of the planet. :lol:

I am no expert, but I seem to recall reading and hearing about their ability to withstand green water impact as well. I can see why a flat surface would concentrate a load, but not completely clear on the forward sloping surface. I guess any angular surface will disperse load more quickly than a flat one? I could also be mis-remembering the conversation.

More room for mounting electronics above them without being right in your face.

We have EZ2CY front panels on our flybridge. I deliberately did a negative angle on them when we put the hardtop on the boat. It does eliminate glare and reflections at night. In a gentile rain we can even leave the panels hinged open if we want to. And it makes the flybridge just feel more spacious.

Crewed on an Italian cruiser delivering from Charleston to Ft Lauderdale. Big backward slope, looked sleek. Spray stuck to it all the time, hot in the nav console, kept hitting my head on it. I think for slower boats, they should follow mostly commercial practice and tilt them forward from the helm station.

skyhawk said:

I guess it seems like they might be good at reducing glare or reflections, they offer more shade and less greenhouse affect inside, seems like they might be a little less likely to have leaking issues since rain wouldn't be hitting them as directly.
What do I have wrong?
What am I missing about this design detail?

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I couldn't agree more! I am now 80 years old and continue to believe that the mounted angle of the windows in question is the best approach for a trawler speed boat.

I have my windshields tilted aft at the top. Does look more sleek. But it is a PITA in summer sun. I have to put a sun shield in front of my laptop to keep it from frying.

skyhawk said:

tell me about these forward sloping pilot house windows please.....

I guess it seems like they might be good at reducing glare or reflections, they offer more shade and less greenhouse affect inside, seems like they might be a little less likely to have leaking issues since rain wouldn't be hitting them as directly.
What do I have wrong?
What am I missing about this design detail?

Click to expand...

Skyhawk, I think you have it right on every point, and you are missing nothing. Forward-raked windows also tend to accumulate less rainfall in a light drizzle, making less work for wiper blades. SoF's point about more space for electronics over the helm station is a bonus.

They look work-boatish to me, which is another bonus, IMO.

But where will the Admiral stretch out if they are reverse slope?
Hollywood

Hollywood wins.

I have had boats with windows slanting both ways. I have had green water take out the rear slanting windows but never ones with forward slant. I do not care how it looks if it keeps me dry and not spitting glass

Functionally, forward sloped windows are nice. A mild back-slope isn't too bad either, but I don't love the 45-ish degree slope of my windshields. Good wipers are a must with them, and it also means more glass area to get a big enough vertical view. I'd much rather have them stood up a bit more (maybe a 20 degree rake like a 60s Chris Craft).



My windshields are up high enough that green water hitting them isn't a concern. If I'm taking green water over the cabin top to the windshields on this boat, the boat is already in serious danger. Space between the helm and the windshields isn't an issue though, as the windshields are several feet forward of the helm console. So if I wanted, overhead electronics are possible even with the sloped back windshields (the tops of them are still plenty far forward).

Smaller so less area to clean and closer so easier to clean, both inside and out.

hollywood8118 said:

But where will the Admiral stretch out if they are reverse slope?
Hollywood

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Fair point....

A functional downside to forward raked windows -
if you boat in very cold WX where ice build up on the blades is a possibility, you need very strong springs to keep the wiper blade in contact with the glass along with heat traced glass, etc.


That being said, my boats windows are slightly raked forward with a nice brow which helps keep things dry(er) in typical PNW / BC / AK WX.

Mine are raked forward, I took one look and fell in love. Less glare is a plus too.

Love forward raked windows. Reduced heat, glare and love the look on my NP 45.

Jon H said:

A functional downside to forward raked windows -
if you boat in very cold WX where ice build up on the blades is a possibility, you need very strong springs to keep the wiper blade in contact with the glass along with heat traced glass, etc.


That being said, my boats windows are slightly raked forward with a nice brow which helps keep things dry(er) in typical PNW / BC / AK WX.

Click to expand...

Ice work = Clear View screen...

All work boats in Alaska from 25' to 200' have forward sloping windows. We gave up on wipers a long time ago (kept getting them tore off) Rain-x before every 3 day trip worked great.

trawlercap said:

All work boats in Alaska from 25' to 200' have forward sloping windows.

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Not too surprising. Most of those boats spend far more time than any of us ever will operating in conditions where having a more optimized windshield layout matters.

Ours are overhanging. When we bought Badger the wipers were shot, so I took them off with every intension of ordering a new pair, and didn't.

That was over 10 years ago.

We used Rain-X for a while, then discovered Lysol wipes work just as well. Water just beads up until they reach critical mass, then run down the window.

I can vouch for effectiveness both for driving rain and spray coming over the bow.

Agree with trawlercap, I have been in the PNW for the 10 years and have never felt the need to install wipers on my forward raking windows.

Its really all about the flare of your bow. With no flare, as in many work boats, GBs, etc, the windows get very wet. Add a little flare, less water comes up that high, more flare, less still.
If I had no flare, I might want forward raked windows. Since I have some flare, there is no need.

Quite literally, Krogen built the Manatee 36 in both configurations, the conventional set up of windshield raked back and a few North Sea examples were made with forward raked windshields. I have been so entertained by the comments regarding forward raked windshields in past forum threads over the years. It’s almost as if it is an emotional thing!

Anyway, thanks to many other Manatee owners stopping by to look and compare the features of one another’s boats, I’ve had lots of opportunity to observe the advantages and disadvantages of both configurations on the same model. Here’s a list of what seems obvious.

Forward Raked plusses over conventional:

-Cooler, always in shade unless near sunset.
-Much roomier feel at helm.
-Gobs of space for overhead cabinetry.
-3.5’ x 8’ more roof for solar.
-Sliding windows at both sides of helm.
-No instrument reflection at night.
-No wipers needed. Rain blows down windshield.
-Exterior easy to clean.
-Glare feels less, easy on the eyes.

Minuses:

-A bitch to clean inside. Must kneel on chart tables (dash) to reach top.
-Heavier, approx. 150 lbs. or so way up top.
-Overhead dome lights are a no-no while underway at night...bad reflection.
-That feel-good morning warmth in northern climates not as apparent.

koliver said:

Its really all about the flare of your bow. With no flare, as in many work boats, GBs, etc, the windows get very wet. Add a little flare, less water comes up that high, more flare, less still.
If I had no flare, I might want forward raked windows. Since I have some flare, there is no need.

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Flare only helps in a slow enough boat or when there's not too much wind, however. I've got a good bit of bow flare and at low speed, it's rare to even get a splash on the forward decks. But at higher speeds waves generate quite a bit of spray. The flare is enough to direct it outwards and keep the boat pretty dry if there's no wind or you're heading directly into the wind. But if the wind is at an angle, a lot of spray gets blown back onto the boat regardless of the flare, as the wind catches the spray once it's clear of the hull.

koliver said:

Its really all about the flare of your bow. With no flare, as in many work boats, GBs, etc, the windows get very wet. Add a little flare, less water comes up that high, more flare, less still.
If I had no flare, I might want forward raked windows. Since I have some flare, there is no need.

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Real "green water" isn't a result of speed of the vsl but rather sea conditions...Flare of fine entry type bow ....doesn't matter.
I have been in ICW and taken green water from sport fishboat wakes on deliveries

Sailor of Fortune said:

Real "green water" isn't a result of speed of the vsl but rather sea conditions...Flare of fine entry type bow ....doesn't matter

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There will always be conditions where any boat of a given size would be taking green water over the decks. But hull shape can definitely impact the point where that starts to happen. And before that point, it'll definitely impact how much water gets sprayed up onto the windows.

agreed, but if we are talking about cruising, or trawlers in conditions other than protected waterways, Not even any extreme conditions, this is reality.... The long gone Marin called these "Wanna be" windows if I remember correctly.....I have been in ICW and taken green water from sport fishboat wakes on deliveries

moparharn said:

I am no expert, but I seem to recall reading and hearing about their ability to withstand green water impact as well. I can see why a flat surface would concentrate a load, but not completely clear on the forward sloping surface. I guess any angular surface will disperse load more quickly than a flat one? I could also be mis-remembering the conversation.

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The force of the wave is coming in at a similar angle to the slope of the windows, so the wave energy slides by, passes by and does nothing, does not bear much force against the glass.

Windows sloped the other way , like a car, do absorb more wave force energy. Been in some fierce waves a few times with my car like front windows on the boat, but they have never broken. 1/4 inch tempered glass is what they are.
Quire the drama to have a ton of water, like a big wave slam against the glass.

But I also prefer them sloped inward at the base, less likely to leak too.