Help with transport.

Benthic2 said:

How is coastal vs near-coastal determined ? It looks like there are some parts of that journey where you could be 100 yards offshore but still be 50 miles from shelter.

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I've never seen a definition, so BandB's 200 nms might be it. At least along the pacific coast, the Wx forecasts on VHF go out to 60 nms, so I'd probably pick that as a number, at least along the west coast. Transiting between headlands rarely puts you further than about 30 nms out so either way, you're out there

Benthic2 said:

How is coastal vs near-coastal determined ? It looks like there are some parts of that journey where you could be 100 yards offshore but still be 50 miles from shelter.

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I'm not aware of a distinction between near coastal and coastal.

If you're asking about insurance geographic definitions would be up to the underwriter. They often take into account owner/operator experience, type and condition of the boat and time of year.

If you're asking about USCG licensing there are 3 scopes. Inland, defined by the CFRs. Near coastal, out to 200 nm. Oceans, anywhere on the globe.

Insurance companies get real excited if you leave the inland passage in the PNW. I don’t remember the designated distance on the Columbia. Pu Hana would know that.

I just watched a number of videos of small fishing boats (25-30 feet) crossing the bar. Some in semi-rough conditions, some virtually smooth with just a long swell. The fishermen picked their weather and tides, and had zero issues that I could see. Yes, it could be a problem for idiots, but a non-event if the operator does a little planning. With today's weather/wind/wave forecasting tools this looks like a cake walk for a couple of reasonably savvy boaters. I've done ten hours (half at night) up the middle of Lake Michigan by myself multiple times. If the new boat owner is along for the trip down the river to Portland he should be comfortable with the boat's handling characteristics before continuing on the next leg. Of course that's up to him. As I said...I'd go with minimal insurance if a company gave me a hard time....and that's with or without a hired captain.
By the way, how does a west coast boater get experience with coastal cruising without doing it? Hire a training captain who apparently has no official recognition by an insurance company beyond a piece of paper?

VF46 said:

Greetings,
I am in the process of purchasing a 1976 Vic Franck 46 Pilothouse. The boat is currently in The Dalles, OR and will be going to Portland for the out of water survey. She's a heavy fiberglass boat that has twin Cat 3208 NA engines with about 3400 hours. If all goes well, as it should because it has been very well maintained, I will be needing help to bring it to Tacoma. At this time I don't have the experience to bring it down the Columbia River, cross the bar and up the coast into Puget Sound.

I am looking for a Captain with the experience to help me transport the boat. Is there anyone in the area, either Portland or Seattle/Tacoma area that would be willing to take on this task? I've talked to a few people that are quoting $600 per day. I understand the whole, you get what you pay for routine but it seems like I read not too long ago the rate was closer to $350 per day. If that's really what it's going to take I guess that's what I'll pay. I just wanted to put it out there and see if anyone had any thoughts about my situation. Thanks!

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My first thought is $650 a day for a professional captain is a bargain.

Most here on TF if still in their working years make more than that, especially when you consider their benefits packages in addition to their salary.

ksanders said:

My first thought is $650 a day for a professional captain is a bargain....Most here on TF if still in their working years make more than that, especially when you consider their benefits packages in addition to their salary.

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Really? Boy, if that's true I'm way behind.

+1 for jack. He moved mine from Blaine to SFO.

kthoennes said:

Really? Boy, if that's true I'm way behind.

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$650 a day works out to about $80k a year if you consider that you will have work 50% of the 5 day work week. I suspect most delivery skippers do not manage that level of activity.

~A

ksanders said:

My first thought is $650 a day for a professional captain is a bargain.

Most here on TF if still in their working years make more than that, especially when you consider their benefits packages in addition to their salary.

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Maybe in Alaska, but here in Washington State thats about $170k a year and I know few people that make that. Even my wife as a university professor doesn't make that, I didn't as an Electrical Engineer as well. And benefit packages have gotten pretty slim in the past 20 years too. When was the last time you heard of a pension plan as a fringe benefit?

Rufus said:

I just watched a number of videos of small fishing boats (25-30 feet) crossing the bar. Some in semi-rough conditions, some virtually smooth with just a long swell. The fishermen picked their weather and tides, and had zero issues that I could see. Yes, it could be a problem for idiots, but a non-event if the operator does a little planning. With today's weather/wind/wave forecasting tools this looks like a cake walk for a couple of reasonably savvy boaters. I've done ten hours (half at night) up the middle of Lake Michigan by myself multiple times. If the new boat owner is along for the trip down the river to Portland he should be comfortable with the boat's handling characteristics before continuing on the next leg. Of course that's up to him. As I said...I'd go with minimal insurance if a company gave me a hard time....and that's with or without a hired captain.
By the way, how does a west coast boater get experience with coastal cruising without doing it? Hire a training captain who apparently has no official recognition by an insurance company beyond a piece of paper?

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For the most part I agree with you. Having grown up around boats on Hoods Canal in Washington and having my present boat the past 16 years, traveling from Bellingham to Astoria round trip, crossing the bar twice (going & coming) I saw no problems IF common sense is used and crossing at high water slack. Boating up the coast to Neah Bay with a fuel & overnight stop in La Push. Around the corner at Neah Bay and heading down the straits to Bellingham. I either missed something or we are talking about another area. Yes its a jaunt at 7-8 knots but with common sense and some sea going experience it's a not crossing an ocean. Heck I have traveled to K town and back and didn't see that as anything next to impossible. Traveling 60 miles out for tuna, salmon and halibut is an almost twice yearly event for me. 20-30 miles out is almost a monthly experience BUT it's being weather wise, boating wise and knowing your equipment and it's capabilities that makes the difference. And I never called my insurance agent. Couldn't see a reason to.

Yes, it sounds like much to do about not so much by delivery captains and friends supporting their trade. Not much different than the surveyor community. I'd check around the local areas for experienced boaters who might enjoy the trip. Maybe one for the run down the Columbia, and another for the trip north. Ask around local marinas and yards.

If the OP is wanting a full blown hands off delivery, door to door that's one thing. If he just wants someone who's done it before to come along as an advisor and helper, then that's something else. A few years back a gent came on this forum looking for assistance moving his "new to him" 1978 Hatteras from the west side of Lake Michigan to Lake Erie. The boat had been reengined several years earlier with a beautiful pair of new Perkins Sabre turbo-diesels. Unfortunately the boat only had some 10 hours on the conversion and it was fraught with issues...including dirty fuel tanks. I'm retired and was bored silly on our summer live-aboard, so I signed on for the three day trip. Compensation was hot dogs, beer and coffee, plus a ride back to my boat in his pickup. We replaced the fresh water pump before departure checked out safety equipment and took off. An hour into the trip one of the prop shaft to transmission couplings sheared all of the bolts at 25 knots. We locked down the shaft (dripless packing with no pressure cooling/lube with engine stopped) and limped along on one engine @6 -7 knots to the next yard which was 30 miles away. The owner and I fixed it ourselves that night. The next day the dripless seal started leaking like a sieve about a mile out of the marina...the shaft coupling had apparently smacked it when the bolts failed. We fixed it enroute. Then the starboard engine began to die every 30-40 minutes from clogged fuel filters. I had insisted the owner have a case on board before leaving Ludington. We used every one of them before reaching Toledo..but really not a big safety deal. Along the way, both engine alternators failed, the autopilot quit, the depth sounder failed, and the heads went wonky. We cranked up the gasoline genset to keep the batteries charged and chart plotter running. Not a big deal. Actually quite a memorable challenge and adventure. The weather was reasonable and we had two engines.

There are guys like me in every marina that are eager to help out....if one takes or has the time to find them. Two grand covers my annual insurance premium...no way would I pay that unless forced to.

Bill V said:

Maybe in Alaska, but here in Washington State thats about $170k a year and I know few people that make that. Even my wife as a university professor doesn't make that, I didn't as an Electrical Engineer as well. And benefit packages have gotten pretty slim in the past 20 years too. When was the last time you heard of a pension plan as a fringe benefit?

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I said with benefits.

Your medical costs your employer, as well as your 401-k or pension.

Guys a hundred something a year in actual salary is not a high wage. Actually if you look at the PACNW for example housing market you are not going to buy a home on a hundred K a year job, and you certainly are not going to buy a decent boat as well.

Paying a delivery captain a flat $650 a day when he has no benefits, and it is a one time contract job is a bargain.

Remember if you are retired the world has kept going. Wages especially wages indexed to cost of living have really went up. Also remember that big boats are not a sport for the average wage earner. That is the reality.

Also remember that higher education does not necessarially mean higher salary. We have substation tech jobs that go unfilled at around 140 + benefits, yet down the street a guy with a BSEE might make a bit less than a hundred, and a person with a business admin degree might make 60.

My journeyman linemen make between 150 and 200 plus benefits at 22 years old and retire with a $7K a month salary at 58

Because of all the caveats expressed in this thread, and calculating a professional captain, fuel and insurance plus the added risk and limited time windows for safe transit and potential breakdowns of an unknown boat...

When I purchased a brand new 40' boat in Oregon about 20 years ago the calculus worked out in favor of putting it on a truck to bring it down to San Francisco. The money saved on sales/use tax by operating the boat out of Portland for the first 6 months and 100 hours allowed us to escape our high state taxes, which more than made up for the small extra cost, provided some great weekend getaways to tour the Columbia and Willamet rivers, and so that might be a consideration if the tax situation in Washington is similar or even if it isn't.

Your boat may or may not be a candidate to transport by truck but it would be worth consideration.

I have a captain bringing my new to me boat from Southern California to the PNW now. He departed late Friday and fueled in Crescent City this afternoon. We hit a great weather window and the boat may make Anacortes this weekend. I mention this as I’d say my Info is pretty fresh....

- I don’t know his exact rate (it is him plus a crew of 2). We discussed the cost to move the boat which included variables like lay days, travel, etc. and agreed upon a general budget. But I’d say $650 a day + crew + expenses etc. is inline and fair unless he gets laid up in a storm for a week + somewhere. I think Mike calculates a bit less for lay days.

To KSanders point, I think it was very fair for the level of experience and professionalism involved. The boat has a fairly complex fuel manifold system and he mentioned when I spoke with him today that he wants to make sure we have some time when he arrives to go over the system with me as he thinks the documentation is lacking. Just an example.

- Boat will be insured for PNW to Alaska but they put a sentence in the rider for a transport trip form SoCal to Seattle. No mention of who was driving. Just ask your broker to add the note.

- Second time I have used Mike Maurice. Cant recommend him more highly. But he’s busy for a few more days! He’s based out of Portland. PM me with questions. Here is his info: https://www.yachtsdelivered.com/

BandB said:

Near coastal is anything within 200 nm of land.

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A slight clarification:

Near-coastal means ocean waters not more than 200 miles offshore from the U.S. and its possessions, except for MMCs endorsed as Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel for which near-coastal is limited to waters not more than 100 miles offshore from the U.S. and its possessions.​

So near coastal on those with tonnage licenses is 200 nm, so on any license reading like 100 Ton NC or 200 Ton NC. However, for OUPV licenses, it is limited to 100 nm.

Off subject - is that you cruising around prince William sound lately?

Mlhess86 said:

Off subject - is that you cruising around prince William sound lately?

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Might help if you identify who you're asking.

Off point but....

I believe I know the boat you are buying. I’ve been aboard once or twice. My wife spent many summer weeks aboard with her extended family. They really loved that boat and had many wonderful times. Hope you do too!

Some facts relevant to various points raised in this thread:

There are three levels of USCG Master license (aside from Tonnage rating):

Inland
Near-Coastal
Offshore

The USCG assigns the appropriate level according to your recent experience when issuing or renewing a license.

The difference between Master Inland and Master Near-Coastal is that for Near-Coastal, a majority of your sea time has to be outside the 'boundary' which is not a fixed distance from shore but rather an arbitrary line drawn down the coast by the USCG. When I got my license, it was assigned Inland because being from New Hampshire, where the line is outside the Isles of Shoals, we rarely went that far out in the ocean. Hopefully, next time I renew, I'll get upgraded to Near-Coastal because of several offshore trips lately.

I belong to the Chesapeake Area Professional Captains Association. My understanding is that $300-400 plus travel expenses is the going rate for captain services on an average yacht. Not including any required crew. I do deliveries for less than that because I don't really need the money and I do want / need the experience. That doesn't mean I'm not good at what I do, and I'm not a 'discount captain'!! When I have more experience, I'll probably charge more but not $400 a day.

Cap'n Jim

jimfrens said:

I belong to the Chesapeake Area Professional Captains Association. My understanding is that $300-400 plus travel expenses is the going rate for captain services on an average yacht. Not including any required crew. I do deliveries for less than that because I don't really need the money and I do want / need the experience. That doesn't mean I'm not good at what I do, and I'm not a 'discount captain'!! When I have more experience, I'll probably charge more but not $400 a day.

Cap'n Jim

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That is definitely not the going rate in South Florida. Now rate may vary by size of boat and license and experience of captain. But here, the going rate is $400-500 per day. As you indicate, you lack experience to earn that.

See this page for a better description of the Boundary line (which determines Inland vs. Near Coastal license):

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/CG-ENG-2/BoundaryLine/