New Build - Electric Powered

[N4061]

Now that we have enjoyed a boat with different and attractive colors we find ourselves debating what to do with the next boat. I think we can all agree dark colors are likely the worst color anyone can choose for a boat "but" they just look good. Scratches occur much easier on dark colors and can result in a trip to the local boatyard to be buffed out if one is not careful.

So what color did we decide for the new boat? Another shiny dark blue hull that matches the Sandpiper. An easy enough decision we thought until we started to discuss colors with the builder overseas. Turns out European builders use a standard color system (RAL) developed in Germany which is different from most US companies. Fortunately, we found a company in the US who works with the EU standard and offers a nice color fan on their website. Using the online color fan we were able to narrow down our choice to two samples. Holding the laptop against the hull of the Sandpiper in the garage to match the exact color was not working so we ended up having the purchase a color fan to insure we don't mess this up. $100 later (ouch) for the fan and shipping (cost of shipping is crazy) we now find ourselves waiting for its arrival and hopefully prior to the Sandpiper being picked up for transportation back east by its new owner. We also plan to match the topside of the Sandpiper which is light tan providing a nice color combination and looks great with teak wood trim. Bottom paint will be a dark red and likely need to be applied after the boat arrives due to EPA regulations in CA. With my luck some inspector at the dock would likely ask too many questions about the bottom paint and prevent the boat from being offloaded from the freighter due to the wrong paint. Needless to say, importing the boat has it challenges.


John

[N4061]

As with some voyages there are times when a course correction is required and building a new boat is no different. With a new boat it could be second thoughts on equipment, options or worst case the boat itself. While everything is fine with the boat and builder selected, we hit a snag with the process of importing the boat. While the costs are reasonable, logistics associated with the process are becoming challenging for this boat and may not be worth the risk. In some ways it would be easier to import a larger boat that can sit on the deck of a cargo ship.

While we have not given up on this project, we have placed it on hold until we are confident, we have plan that gets the boat home safely with minimal risk. If for some reason this project does not proceed we will search for a builder state side willing to take on a custom project at reasonable costs. On a side note we starting to see builders back-logs shrinking and fewer new orders as the market slows. This should help with lower pricing on used trawlers.

John

[N4061]

Well this thread is definitely starting to take on a few twists and turns related to buying a boat and we still have a long voyage ahead. As I mentioned in my earlier post importing a new boat built overseas is not working due to logistics and risks. Shifting gears and finding a builder in the USA is forcing us to look at modifying an existing design or start from scratch. While discussions are proceeding on both fronts it is clear we will not have a boat this year so what to do?

I know, we will buy a smaller boat that can be ready for summer and provide time on the water. But what type of boat to meet the mission without going overboard on the cost. Talking it over with Mary and considering a RIB or center console or something similar she said "why not buy another tender like we had on the last boat"? What, a tender for messing around the harbor and bay? That actually makes sense, so I called Gig Harbor Boats in Seattle and discussed another boat. After considering the pros and cons of the different models I started to zero in on one model. Thinking about this a little more and how I always appreciated wooden boats I started researching wood boat builders and found a cool Dory that would offer similar capabilities as the Gig Harbor but I could experience the process of contracting and following a wooden boat be built. The Dory built by Cottell Boatbuilding in Maine is going to be modified to 11' and while already taller than our previous tender we will add a few more inches for back support while cruising under electric OB power. We will also expand the forward seating area for when Mary and Sailor Blue join me. The boat will be trimmed in solid mahogany, and we are adding a couple of custom touches to make this one special little tender. These boats are not cold molded or have any type of fiberglass outer shell so learning how to care for a traditional wood boat will be another experience I look forward to (on a very small scale).

The boat should be complete and shipped by August providing the summer and fall to get back into rowing for the exercise followed by a margarita and sunset cruise in the harbor. Fun stuff.

John

[Mako]

Interesting points about importing. Depending on boat’s size, might be better to ship it to Canada (or Mexico) then sail it to America. I have to believe that clearing customs and EPA and all that would be easier in the water than landing as deck cargo.

[N4061]

Originally Posted by Mako

Interesting points about importing. Depending on boat’s size, might be better to ship it to Canada (or Mexico) then sail it to America. I have to believe that clearing customs and EPA and all that would be easier in the water than landing as deck cargo.

Even if we could ship it to Mexico we would still face many of the same issues including importing the boat into the US and require all the same paperwork in order to register the boat. With our luck customs would think we were trying to cut corners and confiscate the boat. Just not worth the effort and risk on a smaller boat. Thanks for the comment, always appreciated.

John

[N4061]

With the tender on order to be built we are focused again on the electric boat project and our limited options stateside. The builder of the tender has expressed interest in this project which is great news. I also reached out to another well-known designer / builder on the east coast who expressed interest in a smaller project like ours. Studying plans of different boats (sail and power) has been educational and fun. Being able to take an existing design and turn it into an electric powered vessel requires some imagination and calculations which for me is a learning experience.

While a shoal hull would be simpler to build and require less power, I prefer full displacement or something close for many of the same reasons with our trawlers. Some of the roughest water we will ever see with this boat will be in San Diego Bay where on weekends we can encounter wakes from passing boats up to 3-4 feet. At 5 -6 knot maximum speed I prefer a hull that will not flip over easily if we get caught in a mess.

Since we appear to be heading towards one-off boat it will likely be built out of wood but cold molded or something similar to address the maintenance issues. Researching some larger boats built using this process has been enlightening and I'm looking forward to something new.

John

[FWT]

Here's a crazy idea for you.

5 years ago I was in Venice Italy. Their water taxi's were cool boats that might be the sort of thing you are looking for. They are diesel powered, and I read they were going to the same small engine Helmsman has shown as the standard engine on the H31. If you insist on electric it might be adaptable, with an inboard / outboard sort of power train. Its probably larger than I sense you are considering doing.

Engine bay in the stern. They frequently have a partially retractable roof over the passenger compartment.

[N4061]

[QUOTE=FWT;1173387]Here's a crazy idea for you.

5 years ago I was in Venice Italy. Their water taxi's were cool boats that might be the sort of thing you are looking for. They are diesel powered, and I read they were going to the same small engine Helmsman has shown as the standard engine on the H31. If you insist on electric it might be adaptable, with an inboard / outboard sort of power train. Its probably larger than I sense you are considering doing.

Thanks for sharing this concept. We have seen similar designs during our search and some are just amazing. 31' is a little large for our intended use but I like the wood and finish. Now that we decided to explore designing a boat from a clean sheet of paper it's becoming more challenging than finding an existing production. A one-off design allows your imagination to take over before you have to dial things back into reality. Fun stuff.

John

[N4061]

Since my last post we identified an accomplished naval architect and boat builder to assist with our project. As with most searches we started out with general discussion about his career and work followed with discussion about our project. Next step was to review drawings of past projects similar to ours and sharing thoughts back and forth. This week I provided Paul with a specification / requirements document including everything I can think of related to the boat. Paul will use this document to start his preliminary sketches (phase I) we will use to bounce ideas off of until we settle on the final design concept. Once this phase of the project is completed, we will contract with him to build us a complete set of prints which would be used to build the boat.

A few observations to date related to taking on this project includes:
1. Unlike a production boat I have accepted all the risk and if the design turns out bad, I have no one to fault but myself. The buck stops with me.
2. Unlike the purchase of our Nordhavn's, Helmsman and even the little Sandpiper all those boats were in production for many years and proven. Our input on those boats was limited to a few options, electronics and interior finishes.
3. We are responsible for every aspect of the design including hull type, LOA, Beam, transom style, steering, rudder size, powerplants, interior arrangement (to list a few items) and even building materials. Screw up even one decision and it could sink the project.
4. Time required to manage this project will be significantly greater than any other boat we have researched or built with a builder.
5. Being able to collaborate with the designer on a new boat is a great adventure (so far) and checks another bucket list box.

There are many more items I could add but I think everyone gets the picture. To help understand what goes into building a cold molded wood boat I decided to purchase a small model of a rowing boat using wood construction. At first, I was not sure how much I would get out this project, but I learned a lot especially with my mistakes and have even a greater appreciation of the "art" that is required to build a high-quality wood boat.

Next step is to review the first set of design sketches and continue the collaboration on desired changes. Fun stuff.

John

[N4061]

This week we visited West Marine and purchased our third Torqueedo 1103 for the little tender being built in Maine. While the holiday weekend sale did not reduce the $2,949 price there is a rebate for a free carrying case which we decided was worth the early purchase. This same motor with the original battery design cost about $1900 in 2018 (ouch). I was a little hesitant purchasing the same motor that got me into trouble with the Sandpiper but I could not find anything else that compares with this unique design. Fingers crossed this motor operates as designed but as a backup I will keep the oars close by.

On a more serious note, my near disaster of ending up on the rocks with the Sandpiper once again instilled my belief that any boat we build in the future will have back up power. Maybe it's just me getting older and becoming more risk adverse but I'm sticking with decision. In case anyone is interested in our "less than fun" occurrences related to desire for back-up power here are a few keep reading.
1. Hitting a submerged object in the Great South Bay, Long Island, NY when I was 15 years old. Boat was fine but the prop and running gear was damaged. Needed to flag down a boat a tow.
2. Outboard Yamaha motor on our 22' Mako CC would not start while fishing off San Diego. Needed to call Vessel Assist for a tow.
3. N40 lost throttle control in busy harbor with high winds and relied on wing engine for power and control.
4. N40 incurred engine vibration in moderate seas and had to shut it down. The Wing Engine kept us heading into the seas keeping the boat stable while working the issue.
5. Sandpiper lost electric motor power near the entrance to the ocean as the stiff breeze pushed me dangerously close the jetty. I raised the sail 50% for power / steering control to clear the rocks.

Looking forward my backup power for the tender will be old fashion human power via a set of oars. For the electric launch with IB power I'm leaning towards a side mounted electric OB similar to the set up on the Sandpiper. The motor would be stored under a seat and could be set up and running in less than two minutes. Since the launch is being designed with a large rudder and tiller steering this should help with control using the side mounted OB motor. For the next trawler we never owned a twin-engine boat so that is something we will seriously consider. Fun stuff.

John

[N4061]

Today I was provided with the first pictures of new tender being built. Just the beginning of the floorboards but it's started. Since we are making a few changes to the stock plans it will take a little longer to incorporate everything but still targeting late July.

I also received the first set of preliminary sketches of the electric launch. The designer nailed the boat to our requirements and wishes. Only a few minor cosmetic changes to the wide beam, full displacement hull with a draft we can still trailer. After making a few cosmetic design changes we will send the prints out to electric motor companies for them to size the motor and batteries. As a FD hull I calculated top speed of 5knots and cruise around 4 knots which only slightly slower than our Nordhavn 40's. Interesting....

Today was definitely a good day.

John

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by N4061

Today I was provided with the first pictures of new tender being built. Just the beginning of the floorboards but it's started. Since we are making a few changes to the stock plans it will take a little longer to incorporate everything but still targeting late July.

I also received the first set of preliminary sketches of the electric launch. The designer nailed the boat to our requirements and wishes. Only a few minor cosmetic changes to the wide beam, full displacement hull with a draft we can still trailer. After making a few cosmetic design changes we will send the prints out to electric motor companies for them to size the motor and batteries. As a FD hull I calculated top speed of 5knots and cruise around 4 knots which only slightly slower than our Nordhavn 40's. Interesting....

Today was definitely a good day.

John

How is the electric launch different from a Duffy?

[N4061]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

How is the electric launch different from a Duffy?

The biggest difference between Duffy design and a traditional SLOEP include lower freeboard and hull design. The very successful Duffy boat brand was designed for the purpose of an electric tour boat in Newport Beach Harbor, CA and remain very popular. Not a hull design I would want to be caught in rough water. Cosmetically they are not very appealing, and all models look similar.

Traditional SLOEP hull designs are usually full displacement with a fine bow entry, wide beam mid-section and a tapered or wine glass transom. In some ways the hull reminds of the KK 39 but a little narrower. A very efficient hull form and not changed very much over time. Both style of boats include deep keels and bilges making them difficult to trailer and launch. In over 40 years of living in southern Cailfornia I cannot recall ever seeing a Duffy being trailered on the freeway. The keel on a SLOEP is usually larger and runs further than on a Duffy. While some SLOEP designs have been changed to allow for planning speeds the traditional hull design is FD and our plan. By designing our own boat we can incorporate the changes we want including greater freeboard, keel depth required for trailering and launching while also achieving the high-end finish we desire.

While I joke about margaritas and listening to great music in the harbor, we still want a boat we can take outside the inlet and run a few miles along the coastline and feel safe when incurring swells or choppy waters. The SLOEP design has been proven to be rough water capable and hopefully more than we need.

All fun stuff.

John

[Circumnavigator]

Originally Posted by Mako

Interesting points about importing. Depending on boat’s size, might be better to ship it to Canada (or Mexico) then sail it to America. I have to believe that clearing customs and EPA and all that would be easier in the water than landing as deck cargo.

Amen. We got Fintry's USCG document in 2004, long before we left England. That had the advantage that we could ship stuff to her in England free of UK VAT and duty. When we brought her across the Atlantic in 2005, US Customs wasn't interested in the boat itself, despite the fact that it was very clear on her document that she was built in Scotland. It was a complete non-event.


Jim

[Nomad Willy]

SLOEP ?
Would like to see some pics

[N4061]

Originally Posted by Nomad Willy

SLOEP ?
Would like to see some pics

Once we have the preliminary drawings completed, I will post them on this thread. After further review of the first set of drawings I concluded we wanted more beam and asked Paul to take a look at adding 6" - 12" even if it meant we need to extend the LOA slightly. We also are looking at weather protection consisting of a Bimini aft and dodger type cover forward. I would like to design the storage of both tops such that they are out of sight and stowed inside separate compartments. May sound like minor details on a trawler but with a smaller boat everything becomes more magnified especially from a cosmetic perspective. Fun stuff.

John