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Old 02-15-2023, 07:27 PM   #21
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I'd guess that this is just the trucking industry seeing an opportunity to have their load limits increased so they can carry more weight and make more money. No one seemed concerned about the weight of Cadillac Escalades, Hummers or other large heavy vehicles that have been sold for years. Why would EV's suddenly be a problem ?
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Old 02-15-2023, 07:36 PM   #22
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A Tesla weighs less than a Dodge Charger, an F-150 or a Chevy Tahoe.
Two Tesla Model 3's with every available motor and range option equal my F250!
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Old 02-16-2023, 06:21 AM   #23
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Over 75% of the world’s population live in areas that are short on electrical power generation and reliable grid systems. Moving from oil fueled vehicles to EVs recharged by fossil fuels is palliative only.for this 75%.

Until nuclear power and clean coal technology are widely embraced only us yacht and heavily subsidized EV owners can afford a Tesla or Lightning pickup. Then enter the EV need for an additional 500 or so pounds of various metals as compared to a non EV vehicle.

Thus more power is required to produce these presumed justifiable EV metals. The overall power requirements to build, operate and maintain an EV worldwide fleet are intentionally obfuscated by governments and “us guys.”

Windmill and solar generation worldwide growth is more than matched by coal and gas growth. Why? Too many new bodies demanding and needing electricity to meet basic needs.

So how do we really reduce fossil fuel requirements? Mother Nature does it by thinning the herd.
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Old 02-16-2023, 11:51 AM   #24
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Closer to home for some of us, these guys have been doing a lot of work on electric.

https://ral.ca/series/electra/
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Old 02-17-2023, 01:17 PM   #25
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A Tesla weighs less than a Dodge Charger, an F-150 or a Chevy Tahoe.
Actually this statement is false for three of the four Teslas in production.
Tesla Model X = 4,555 lbs
Model X = 5,185 to 5,390 lbs
Model S = 4,561 to 4,766 lbs

But hey F-series trucks brings up a good point, let's compare apples to apples

Standard Ford F-150 = 4,021 to 5,014 lbs
F-150 Lightning EV = 6,500 lbs
In the lightning, the battery alone weighs a whopping 1800 lbs, yikes(!)

Anyway, I should know better than to weigh in on a controversial topic. Didn't mean to ruffle anything, i'll probably let this thread alone now...
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Old 02-17-2023, 04:10 PM   #26
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Actually this statement is false for three of the four Teslas in production.
Tesla Model X = 4,555 lbs
Model X = 5,185 to 5,390 lbs
Model S = 4,561 to 4,766 lbs

But hey F-series trucks brings up a good point, let's compare apples to apples

Standard Ford F-150 = 4,021 to 5,014 lbs
F-150 Lightning EV = 6,500 lbs
In the lightning, the battery alone weighs a whopping 1800 lbs, yikes(!)

Anyway, I should know better than to weigh in on a controversial topic. Didn't mean to ruffle anything, i'll probably let this thread alone now...
Actually you list 2 different weights for the Model X and Model Y tops out at 4416 lbs if that's what you meant.
A fully optioned F150 weighs closer to 5800 lbs wet. Source: Car&Driver 2023 F150 Specs
I think of the Lightning as the most fully optioned F150, sort of like earlier Lightnings.
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Old 02-17-2023, 04:14 PM   #27
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A fully optioned F150 weighs closer to 5800 lbs wet.

And the newer F-150s are somewhat lighter than they used to be as well. The switch to aluminum body panels a few years ago saved a few hundred pounds compared to the previous steel body.


The more capable EVs are heavy, but they're not insanely heavy compared to some other similar vehicles.
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Old 02-17-2023, 05:27 PM   #28
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Last year we bought a new F150 gas powered. The weight is listed as 5650 lbs. An equivalent Lightning weighs in at 6500 lbs. The Lightning is an amazing vehicle with the latest Motor Trend calling it their "Truck of the Year." This magazine issue is worth getting your hands on if you're considering buying a pickup and can afford the wait and 40% or so price premium.

Of note, Ford has temporarily shut down the Lightning production line as they root out a battery/electrical fire that occurred with a recently built and still in the too be shipped line. Also Chrysler says don't park your Cummins diesel pickup in the garage until they figure out a remedy for wiring harness fires.
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Old 02-18-2023, 02:31 PM   #29
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Been reading about the U.S. rail road system it decimated the horse based teamster industry and made cowboys nearly unnecessary for cattle drives. Changed infrastructure greatly with towns and even cities appearing and disappearing. Totally changed agriculture and industry.
People talk about the infrastructure needed for EV In comparison to RR and the interstate road system proportional not as biggy.
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Old 02-18-2023, 03:11 PM   #30
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Changes in infrastructure at the end of the 19th century were a whole different thing. Driven by monopolies and unrestricted by any regulation. Cannot be duplicated today.

You should not hold your breath waiting for quick charge infrastructure to be ubiquitous in marinas for your electric trawler. You will turn blue and die.
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Old 02-20-2023, 06:16 PM   #31
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With a truckable boat, can the bank charge at a Tesla kiosk?
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Old 02-20-2023, 07:26 PM   #32
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Keysdease wrote;
“One example given was a harbor tug. Never went too far, worked regular hours, the work cycle lent itself to recharging, etc. The cost curves between the diesel and the electric tugs favored the electric tug...until it came time to replace the batteries. Then the cost curve was all shot to hell.”

All well and good w the operational needs lined up w electric power.
But re the way the elements of emotional forces or things like satisfying vibrations and relaxing sounds add up to a personality of a boat. And I’m thinking a pair of thundering Detroit diesels or a low frequency vibrating slow speed (rpm) heavy duty diesels would much much more likely to give a tugboat skipper satisfaction or make him smile.

I’d call it a personality mismatch.
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Old 02-20-2023, 08:21 PM   #33
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Crowley also building electric tug

Crowley Maritime has also designed and is building an all electric tugboat for the port of San Diego. See the link below:
https://www.crowley.com/news-and-med...-electric-tug/
The future of electric power in displacement powerboats is really interesting and exciting.
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Old 02-21-2023, 07:14 AM   #34
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It is true that we will need a great deal of infrastructure to support everyone owning an EV, but it will take years for 100% of the population to drive EV's. The infrastructure does not need to be created overnight. It only has to grow as fast as EV ownership. 2 people in my family have purchased cars in the last year. One was a hybrid, and one was a Hydrogen powered Toyota. I don't think we can even say with any confidence what the dominant technology will be. Does anyone remember the Sony Beta Max or 8 track tapes ? It is easy to be a nay-sayer, but so much more enjoyable to be an optimist, as we are living in exciting times for both personal transportation and our national power grid.
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Old 02-21-2023, 10:23 AM   #35
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Climate Change, pollution, dependence on foreign oil...
I get that the long term power source is the objective, but for the here and now the majority of electricity in US comes from coal. If we are willing to accept the impact from that for the foreseeable future and that the present power grid is in need of upgrade and maintenance, so will struggle to handle the added loads to recharge all these vehicles, then we may see a day when it is environmentally beneficial. The financial advantage may be further off than that. This is clearly an issue with many factors to impact it and the benefits may be further down the road than many are willing to believe now. That doesn't mean it is not worth pursuing, as long as we don't become depend on it before it's maturity and thus leaving us in a vulnerable situation.
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Old 02-21-2023, 10:52 AM   #36
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I get that the long term power source is the objective, but for the here and now the majority of electricity in US comes from coal. If we are willing to accept the impact from that for the foreseeable future and that the present power grid is in need of upgrade and maintenance, so will struggle to handle the added loads to recharge all these vehicles, then we may see a day when it is environmentally beneficial. The financial advantage may be further off than that. This is clearly an issue with many factors to impact it and the benefits may be further down the road than many are willing to believe now. That doesn't mean it is not worth pursuing, as long as we don't become depend on it before it's maturity and thus leaving us in a vulnerable situation.
I don't know why the fallacy you quote persists but...
as of 2021 it was: natural gas 38.4% and coal 21.9%.

In 2022, coal slid to 18.5%, less than renewables.

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Old 02-21-2023, 12:04 PM   #37
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I don't know why the fallacy you quote persists but...
as of 2021, it was: natural gas 38.4% and coal 21.9%.
In 2022, coal slid to 18.5%, less than renewables.


A little research shows the confusion. You are correct on the percentage of electricity IN THE US coming from coal. The percentage globally is higher. The percentage of coal production used in electrical generation in the US is 90% +/-, not be be confused with the amount of electricity derived from coal. There's the confusion on coal.
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Old 02-21-2023, 12:21 PM   #38
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US is an outlier on vehicle size. We like SUVs, CUVs and pickups. We like big cars and trucks.
Go just about anywhere in the world and the difference is striking. Even the pickups and transit trucks are smaller elsewhere.
It’s disingenuous to complain about weight. There’s no reason for our cars and pickups to be so large with the exception of those used for work.
I want a pick. I’ll get a EV rivian or ranger or the like. Don’t need even a half ton.
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Old 02-21-2023, 12:38 PM   #39
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A little research shows the confusion. You are correct on the percentage of electricity IN THE US coming from coal. The percentage globally is higher. The percentage of coal production used in electrical generation in the US is 90% +/-, not be be confused with the amount of electricity derived from coal. There's the confusion on coal.
I'm not sure who is confused on what, but the simple fact is power plant KW generation from coal in the US is about 19.0% plus or minus 1/2%.

US coal use for power is dwarfed by China's electricity from coal at 62% and India's 74%. Both these countries are building over 100 coal fired power plants currently or in the near future.
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Old 02-21-2023, 12:46 PM   #40
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US is an outlier on vehicle size. We like SUVs, CUVs and pickups. We like big cars and trucks.
Go just about anywhere in the world and the difference is striking. Even the pickups and transit trucks are smaller elsewhere.
It’s disingenuous to complain about weight. There’s no reason for our cars and pickups to be so large with the exception of those used for work.
I want a pick. I’ll get a EV rivian or ranger or the like. Don’t need even a half ton.
It is amazing how efficient an F150 is compared to a Nordic Tug. Why some even sell their sail boat and buy a power boat! It is wonderful to be living somewhere that our individual choices and dreams can be realized.
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