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Old 07-27-2022, 08:28 AM   #1
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Greenline batteries

Hi all
Just an info. Two Greenline 39 are homeported in Bandol, next to me. One is 2017 built and suffered a battery collapse in summer 2021 after 4 years of service. The other one is 2018 built and had a similar mishap week past, after 4 years too (one battery element inflated with severe hydrogen diffusion leading to vacate the boat).
In both cases, the local dealer denied any responsibility despite these lithium batteries are covered by a 10-year guarantee.
Furthermore, Replacement batteries banks were unavailable (for the summer boating season, I mean). And cost is killing.
Did any of folks hear about such problems ?
Thanks for reading
JeanL
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Old 07-27-2022, 05:05 PM   #2
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10 year guarantee? Really?? I would be surprised.

When I bought my GL33, the marketing was that the LiPo battery had a 10 year estimated lifespan. There was never any mention of a 10 year guarantee - but that was a long time ago. Maybe things are different now?? Nevertheless, I would expect to get more than 4 years out of the hybrid battery -- IF PROPERLY CARED FOR.

I got 8 1/2 years out of mine, before I had to order a new one from the factory (SVP Yachts). Mine did not "collapse" but it was showing some initial signs of weakening. A couple of the 13 cells had a bit higher resistance than they should have had. I probably could have gone for another year on it, but I decided to change it out because I was about to embark on a multi-year trip.

By "properly cared for", I mean that the battery was never subjected to overcharging (due to faulty BMS, BMS configuration, Victron charger configuration or Victron solar charge controller configuration). i also mean that the battery was never allowed to go below about 42 volts. On my GL33, the instructions say that it should never be run below 44 volts. If the voltage is allowed to get too low, the battery will collapse and most likely will not be able to be revived. I know there are steps to revive batteries that have collapsed from too-low voltage, but success is not always guaranteed.

I've heard about a couple of GL33's that had to have their batteries replaced due to collapse as a result of the storage yard not applying a maintenance charge when they should have (for example once per month). Leaving the battery on Float at ~54v all year around not ideal either. The battery's life is enhanced if it is kept somewhere closer to 48v when sitting for long periods of time. Personally, I have my storage yard plug in the shore power for 1 day about once per month, which results in roughly an average monthly voltage of 48-50v. Also, you want to make sure no charging is done at 5 degrees C or below. Doing so could also harm the battery.

Of course, it could really be possible that a cell in the battery has a manufacturing defect, but I have been told that if that's the case, the problem would manifest itself very early in the battery's life. I honestly don't know whether that's true or not, but it seems to make sense.

And yes, they are fiendishly expensive. I contemplated going my own route with a local supplier of a different battery, but decided against it in the end, as I wanted a "plug-and-play" replacement, complete with new BMS and updated configuration from the factory. This was because, as I already mentioned, I was about to embark on a multi-year trip with the boat. It was also because I did not want to have any exposure from an insurance/liability standpoint because I changed the factory spec'd system to something else.


Given the size of the battery investment, I jumped at the opportunity to install a Victron Global Remote accessory when it hit the market many years ago. With this, I can get sms and e-mail alerts if the voltage ever becomes too low. I can also get about a zillion other bits of information via an associated App, as well as SMS commands. So, when I'm expecting a storage yard to apply a charge monthly and they don't, for whatever reason, I can see it immediately and call them on the phone.
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Old 07-27-2022, 05:09 PM   #3
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The LiFePO4s that I put in our last boat had a lifetime warranty. 10 years seems short. We used Lion Energy ones. They estimated 3500+ cycles to 20% I think.
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Old 07-28-2022, 01:31 AM   #4
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Greenline troubles

Thanks Scott and Dave
Life expectancy ? Guarantee ? A possible confusion, deliberate or not ….
Scott, your statement is a gold mine and I certainly will pass this info on to the Greenline owners here.
Many thanks on behalf of both of them
All the best
JeanL
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Old 07-28-2022, 02:42 AM   #5
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I would also highly recommend the installation of one of these (if they have a REC BMS) or the equivalent if their BMS is from another manufacturer:
https://www.nothnagel-marine.de/medi...rManualLCD.pdf


https://www.rec-bms.com/rec-accessories/


This is how I knew that the resistance was high on a couple of my cells (along with factory review of my data). This is also how one can tell if a cell is beginning to collapse and proactively prevent any emergency/dangerous situation.


I don't readily find these devices for sale on line anymore. It is my guess that the newer Greenlines come with a newer REC (or other manufacturer) BMS that has Blue Tooth capability and can provide this data directly to a smartphone app.
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Old 07-28-2022, 01:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croix du Sud View Post
Hi all
Just an info. Two Greenline 39 are homeported in Bandol, next to me. One is 2017 built and suffered a battery collapse in summer 2021 after 4 years of service. The other one is 2018 built and had a similar mishap week past, after 4 years too (one battery element inflated with severe hydrogen diffusion leading to vacate the boat).
In both cases, the local dealer denied any responsibility despite these lithium batteries are covered by a 10-year guarantee.
Furthermore, Replacement batteries banks were unavailable (for the summer boating season, I mean). And cost is killing.
Did any of folks hear about such problems ?
Thanks for reading
JeanL
Hi Croix du Sud,

here in Germany we had a really big explosion of a Greenline 33 in Marina Minden in July 2017. It was filmed by a dronepilot. You can watch the video on this site: http://https://www.boote-forum.de/redirect.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mt.de%2Flokales% 2Fminden%2F21851359_Drohnenpilot-filmt-Explosion-unabsichtlich-bete-fuer-die-Verletzten.html&token=5c2724588a818587b7feffb9ea7c 2621

As i remember, the owner had issues with the battery but could not deal with it, so a technician came and isolated the battery from the boats electrics. Unfortunately a few days later, the battery started to fume, so the fire department was alarmed. Just at the time when two firefighters were on the boat, the explosion happend. Both lost their legs but survived ...very sad story.

And there was a second greenline burning in germany, but i don't remember the exact circumstances. There should be a video on YouTube.

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Old 07-28-2022, 02:21 PM   #7
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I had heard about these two in Germany and yes, I found this distressing at the time. But, I’ve not heard about anything like these two cases before or since.

I have also heard about lithium-based battery fires on the occasional Tesla. And then there were the jets...

My conclusion? Take great care of your battery. Make sure it is not abused. Monitor it (hence my BMS LCD monitor recommendation). Be proactive if any cell voltages or resistances look “off”. Don’t ignore any weird battery performance issues if they appear. I know for a fact that one of these German boats was a charter. We all know how much "experienced" attention these batteries are likely to get by charter users…
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Old 07-28-2022, 02:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croix du Sud View Post
Hi all
Just an info. Two Greenline 39 are homeported in Bandol, next to me. One is 2017 built and suffered a battery collapse in summer 2021 after 4 years of service. The other one is 2018 built and had a similar mishap week past, after 4 years too (one battery element inflated with severe hydrogen diffusion leading to vacate the boat).
In both cases, the local dealer denied any responsibility despite these lithium batteries are covered by a 10-year guarantee.
Furthermore, Replacement batteries banks were unavailable (for the summer boating season, I mean). And cost is killing.
Did any of folks hear about such problems ?
Thanks for reading
JeanL
Greenline uses Lithium Polymer batteries not LiFePO4. Li-Po is a highly volatile lithium chemistry. We had a customer approach us to do some work on his Greenline. Sorry, no, we won't touch Li-Po on a boat.. LiFePO4 sure, but no way on Li-Po.
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