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Old 07-13-2021, 04:57 PM   #1
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GL33 VWmarine to Volvo D3 220hp conversion in US

There is a long story behind this, but I'm going to stick with the short story for now. My VW Marine engine is full of salt water, and I'm replacing it with a new D3 220hp. This will happen at my marina in Florida, and I'm guessing that this project has never before taken place in the US. I'd love to hear from anyone who has done this conversion in Europe or anywhere for that matter as I could use the help.

Instead of a sad story we are looking at this as a huge upgrade to our beloved Solmate, a 2011 model. We have decided to loose the Iskra hybrid functionality as it would add another $$$ to the amount that this little job will already cost, and the truth is we never use the emotor down here with all the stiff currents and boat traffic anyway. We will miss the 48v generator but I can do something with a 48v alternator or perhaps a DC/DC converter (figure that one out later).

The new Volvo has been on order for 2 months already, and I'm told it's going to be another month, who knows. Soon I will start the deconstruction of the VW with only 400 hours on her. I will definitely have some spare parts available if anyone is interested as many parts of the engine and hybrid system are in perfect shape.

Once done, the boat will have the little bit of extra power that we need for realistic trips down to the keys, to the Bahamas, and such. Really looking forward to being finished but there is so much work ahead of us to get there.

All for now, I plan to document as much as I can for future conversions. At some point everyone will have to repower so it could be a useful resource.
Todd
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Old 07-17-2021, 04:08 PM   #2
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Hi Todd. Sorry to hear about the loss of your VW engine. I have never heard of anyone undertaking the change you’re contemplating. Doesn’t mean somebody, somewhere hasn’t done it. I could be interested in the exhaust elbow, if it’s in good condition. I will be in Florida in Dec…and could make room in my suitcase for it ;-)
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Old 07-19-2021, 07:50 PM   #3
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Thanks Scott. I wills start to pull things apart soon. Also have new in the box impeller, maybe engine fuel filter, maybe oil filter, need to check.
Best, Todd
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:26 PM   #4
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Todd, could you please fill we VW powered 33 owners in on how your engine failed/flooded? At how many hours?

My '14 33 hybrid clutch slave cylinder has failed, leaving the generator fully functional, and I'm considering just leaving it as such. Quite a big job as Scott can attest to. All the pre-'15 33 hybrid owners on the forum have reported the same failure, I believe, but haven't heard yet of any '15 and up Volvo powered similar failures. They do use the same master cylinder electro-hydraulic actuator in photos I've seen, but don't know about the slave.



Thanks, Pete "Swan Song"
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:42 PM   #5
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Hi PeterB,
While I will be the first to agree that much of the benefit of hybrid cruising we enjoy has to do with 24x7 AC power, I think it would be a great shame to not be able to use a lot of that expensive hybrid equipment you invested in for propulsion. In the end, of course, finances will dictate. BUT, if you've not had the experience of using electric for docking and other situations were silence is enjoyable, I would highly recommend that you shell out the ~$4k to have this professionally fixed. Then you will be able to experience electric propulsion and evaluate whether it's worth it to you, should the need to do the same repair ever come up again in the future. Give electric propulsion at least one chance!!
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:05 PM   #6
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Hi PeterB,
While I will be the first to agree that much of the benefit of hybrid cruising we enjoy has to do with 24x7 AC power, I think it would be a great shame to not be able to use a lot of that expensive hybrid equipment you invested in for propulsion. In the end, of course, finances will dictate. BUT, if you've not had the experience of using electric for docking and other situations were silence is enjoyable, I would highly recommend that you shell out the ~$4k to have this professionally fixed. Then you will be able to experience electric propulsion and evaluate whether it's worth it to you, should the need to do the same repair ever come up again in the future. Give electric propulsion at least one chance!!

Louise and I did enjoy the electric power in and around and leaving the marine, and returning usually downwind and usual 4-6' swell for the last several miles, and also whale watching - dieseling out into the bay, finding whales if we could, then switching to electric while we followed them.

The problem I see now is the complexity of the job and necessity of strictly following the 20 pg guide, as no mechanic around here has ever encountered this strange breed. Yours had to be re-done, clutch plates, etc, I recall. I've always been a hands-on guy with my cars (turbo Volvos for the most part) and boats and would want to be right there to direct the show. And probably drive the mechanic nuts!

It's not the money but the fear of consequences from undiscovered errors in the complex job. The boat serves our purposes very well as is and we trust her at sea in the never calm, always cold Pacific. We're both 81, and she's likely our last boat - our "Swan Song"...
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Old 07-21-2021, 11:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by epowermarine View Post
There is a long story behind this, but I'm going to stick with the short story for now. My VW Marine engine is full of salt water, and I'm replacing it with a new D3 220hp. This will happen at my marina in Florida, and I'm guessing that this project has never before taken place in the US. I'd love to hear from anyone who has done this conversion in Europe or anywhere for that matter as I could use the help.

Instead of a sad story we are looking at this as a huge upgrade to our beloved Solmate, a 2011 model. We have decided to loose the Iskra hybrid functionality as it would add another $$$ to the amount that this little job will already cost, and the truth is we never use the emotor down here with all the stiff currents and boat traffic anyway. We will miss the 48v generator but I can do something with a 48v alternator or perhaps a DC/DC converter (figure that one out later).

The new Volvo has been on order for 2 months already, and I'm told it's going to be another month, who knows. Soon I will start the deconstruction of the VW with only 400 hours on her. I will definitely have some spare parts available if anyone is interested as many parts of the engine and hybrid system are in perfect shape.

Once done, the boat will have the little bit of extra power that we need for realistic trips down to the keys, to the Bahamas, and such. Really looking forward to being finished but there is so much work ahead of us to get there.

All for now, I plan to document as much as I can for future conversions. At some point everyone will have to repower so it could be a useful resource.
Todd
Good luck in you transplant!

I was surprised to see that the Volvo D3 220 has a similar 5-cyl aluminum block & head as the VW, slightly smaller displacement of 2.4L, but 4 valves/cyl rather than the VW's 2, which explains the additional 55HP with much higher air flow possible from its turbo.

Back in the day I had a '94 3/4 ton Surburban for towing a heavy rig, with its 7.3L cast iron gas V8 neutered to only 230 HP . Completely gave up much over 3500RPM, and just couldn't breathe enough air through its small valves to make more.

My other vehicle was a '94 Volvo 850 turbo wagon putting out 222 HP from it's 5-cyl 2.3L 4-valves/cyl aluminum engine, with less than a third of the displacement of the huge V-8, and pulled all the way to its 6000RPM redline. It was the first production wagon capable of hitting 150MPH (which I never came close to verifying, but much fun to drive!).
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:14 PM   #8
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Hi Peter,
It's actually not a long story at all. I do a lot of work on the boat and engine so it's normal for me to be doing fairly large jobs while dockside. This time I bought a new Raymarine MFD and Radome and was starting the installation in the dash and running wires up to the Raydome. I realized I needed help and my wife came down the next day to help with the wires, and since I had company I though I'd turn on the AC for some relief from the South Florida heat.

Normally, standard operating procedure for us is to open all seacocks when we get on the boat and close them when we get off. However this day we were not leaving the dock or starting the engine so we deviated from SOP. There was a miss communication between us and we both thought the other had finished opening all the valves, but only the 2 large intakes where in fact open. By now you know the rest of the story: The AC ran for about 2hours, the seawater had no where to go but into the exhaust via the T connector right below the elbow, and tube, muffler, then the turbo and exhaust manifold filled up with water, ultimately going into the cylinders.

We had no idea until the next day when I tried to crank up the engine. Took me about 30 seconds to figure out what happened. Then I pumped out the exhaust and tried to get anything out of the engine that I could. By then it was no use, game over.

I'm looking at this as an opportunity. Getting parts for the VW was starting to get difficult anyway, and no one wants to work on it down here. The Volvo will be easily serviceable by multiple mobile techs in my area, and give me the extra power I need to run my local inlet safely.

It's all a bad dream but it actually happened and this is the only path forward. The engine had 400 hrs on it and was literally just serviced a couple of weeks before this happened! Ran like a top, it's too bad VW Marine didn't stay in the game.

And although this was completely my fault and should never have happend, I'm also going to plumb the AC seawater outlet ABOVE the waterline with no seacock, like the other 99.9% of boats in the world.
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Old 07-22-2021, 09:21 PM   #9
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Man, that's crazy that the AC cooling return is T'd into the exhaust system as well as having it's own discharge seacock. What in the name of Slovenia could they have been thinking? Or maybe this is a common practice I'm not aware of to aid in exhaust cooling...any ideas?

I'll do a bilge slither soon to check if mine has the same. I've left seacocks open on all my many boats over 50 years except when away for long times, but do check hoses and actuate every several months

Just back from installing a new anchor light socket and pole - original totally corroded at the removable pole contact studs the bottom of the socket that plug into pole base. West has same replacement Perko base and a much brighter LED all-round light pole w/ 2 mi. vis.
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Old 07-23-2021, 03:17 AM   #10
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@ePowerMarine - An unfortunate story, indeed! Your taking the time to share this will hopefully permit other VW engines to avoid this unfortunate fate. I want to make sure I fully understand, however. Either the setup on my GL is different or I am learning something about my raw water systems I never knew before...which is also quite possible.

My 2010 hybrid, as delivered from the factory, did not have A/C installed. I had A/C installed by a local yard, however, about 1 1/2 years later. While the A/C unit & complete installation kit was ordered from the GL Manufacturer, Seaway, the local yard apparently installed raw-water cooling part of this a bit differently -- and, after reading your post, I am thankful for this. On my 2010 hybrid, there are two separate intake seacocks – each with its own raw water strainer. One is for the diesel engine raw water circuit and the other is for the hybrid raw water circuit. The Hybrid raw water circuit, after passing trough the HCU and electric motor, discharges through its own seacock. My A/C unit raw water comes from a T into the Hybrid raw water supply, immediately after the sea water strainer. The discharge for the A/C T’s into the Hybrid discharge line just before it goes through the discharge seacock. There’s nowhere, to my understanding at least, that this Hybrid/AC raw-water circuit ever “intersects” with the engine (save for the electric motor). If I were to open the Hybrid / A/C seacock, not open the discharge and run the A/C, I do not know what would happen. It could be anything from nothing interesting...to something ugly. BUT, I can’t for the life of me see how my doing this could introduce water into the diesel engine itself. Anyway, your experience will be something I never forget when opening/closing seacocks!

I guess I am writing all this so that I and others reading this can get a better understanding of:
  • Was it actually your electric motor that filled up... and the sea water entered the engine somehow from that?
  • Is my A/C installation according to Factory standard – or not?
  • Or, is your A/C installation according to Factory standard – or not? (Do you know if it was installed at the factory?)
  • Or, Did SeaWay change the engineering of this over various years of production? (i.e. some owners have this risk and some do not).
  • I believe SVP discharges todays GL33 A/C systems ABOVE the waterline.

The screenshot below is of the 2010 owner’s manual and reflects my setup. Click on it to enlarge.
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GL33_Raw_Water.jpg  
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Old 07-23-2021, 03:26 AM   #11
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Man, that's crazy that the AC cooling return is T'd into the exhaust system as well as having it's own discharge seacock. What in the name of Slovenia could they have been thinking? Or maybe this is a common practice I'm not aware of to aid in exhaust cooling...any ideas?

I'll do a bilge slither soon to check if mine has the same. I've left seacocks open on all my many boats over 50 years except when away for long times, but do check hoses and actuate every several months

Just back from installing a new anchor light socket and pole - original totally corroded at the removable pole contact studs the bottom of the socket that plug into pole base. West has same replacement Perko base and a much brighter LED all-round light pole w/ 2 mi. vis.

Hi PeterB,


After having to replace my anchor light unit twice due to corroded contacts, etc. I decided to go with something that had a COMPLETELY different design. So far, this is working out splendidly. There are no electrical connection parts that can suffer from salt water ingress. So, if you have to make the replacement, yet again, as I did, you might want to consider the below option. Also nice is that it's "fold-down" for when you need to clear a low bridge.

https://www.hellamarine.com/en/produ...p-compact.html
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Old 07-23-2021, 04:24 AM   #12
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ScottC, In your case, because both the inlets and outlets of the two circuits are teed together, I think if the hybrid/AC outlet were left closed, water would circulate internal to the boat running in the normal direction through the AC loop, and reverse through the hybrid loop.


I'm quite surprised to hear that it's normal practice to share inlets and outlets like this. Most products I've seen insist on dedicated inlets and outlets to prevent just this sort of thing.
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Old 07-23-2021, 04:31 AM   #13
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Hi Twisted Tree.
I'm afraid my long explanation was not very clear. What I was trying to say is that in my case, the two raw water circuits are NOT connected to each other in any way. The Hybrid/ A/C circuit is completely separate from the Diesel engine circuit. The A/C is T'd off the Hybrid circuit supply and T'd back into the hybrid circuit discharge.
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Old 07-23-2021, 05:09 AM   #14
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Hi Twisted Tree.
I'm afraid my long explanation was not very clear. What I was trying to say is that in my case, the two raw water circuits are NOT connected to each other in any way. The Hybrid/ A/C circuit is completely separate from the Diesel engine circuit. The A/C is T'd off the Hybrid circuit supply and T'd back into the hybrid circuit discharge.


Understood. So in your case no apparent threat to the engine if a valve is left closed. But even sharing the cooling circuits between the AC and hybrid system strikes me as unusual and counter to good practices.

BTW, does the raw water circulate directly through the electric motor, or is there a heat exchanger and glycol circulating through the motor? I’ve never had a close look at one of these systems.
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Old 07-23-2021, 05:17 AM   #15
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BTW, does the raw water circulate directly through the electric motor, or is there a heat exchanger and glycol circulating through the motor? I’ve never had a close look at one of these systems.

The diesel engine is FWC. Sadly, the Hybrid circuit (and therefore A/C) is not. At least it wasn't in the early Greenlines. I'm not so sure about the later ones. The factory's recommended workaround for this, which I implemented years ago, is Volva Penta "Neutra Salt". It simply injects a little "anti-saline" solution into the circuit every so often. Not great, but better than nothing. It has so far been working for me...
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Old 07-23-2021, 05:42 AM   #16
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I'm looking at this as an opportunity. Getting parts for the VW was starting to get difficult anyway, and no one wants to work on it down here. The Volvo will be easily serviceable by multiple mobile techs in my area, and give me the extra power I need to run my local inlet safely.

It's all a bad dream but it actually happened and this is the only path forward. The engine had 400 hrs on it and was literally just serviced a couple of weeks before this happened! Ran like a top, it's too bad VW Marine didn't stay in the game.

I think you are correct in viewing this as an opportunity. I, too, find that VW Marine parts are getting more and more difficult to come by. Fortunately, one can go to VW Auto Dealers for some items. Sad, for an engine model that is not really that old, in the big scheme of things.


I think the Volvo is a good choice and it's the route I will likely go when and if the day comes for me to make such a change. I know Volvo Penta gets a lot of knocks in the US for cost and slow delivery of parts. Here, in Sweden, availability of Volvo Penta parts is great - not surprisingly. But I imagine the cost is probably just as painful due, in large part, to our 25% VAT.
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:51 PM   #17
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Just some clarifications: My boat is factory AC, Hybrid, VW165, 2011 us spec. I'm 99% sure that nothing has been modified in terms of plumbing, but I suppose anything is possible.

The diesel seawater loop IS separate from the AC/Hybrid cooling loop except for 2 places: #1 is the T hanging below the exhaust elbow. When the motor is running some of the AC/Hybrid cooling water exits here. #2 is the prop shaft seal, this has 2 inputs, one from Diesel cooling and other from AC/Hybrid cooling.

So both places where they come together are essentially 'outlets', that is only while the Diesel is running and shaft is spinning.

All of our seacocks are below the waterline and we have 6 total: Diesel raw water strainer AC/Hybrid strainer, bilge pump/AC outlet, grey water pump outlet, Black water outlet, anchor locker washdown pump.

Still waiting on my D3 220, hopefully no more than 1 month now.
Todd
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Old 07-23-2021, 01:37 PM   #18
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Just some clarifications: My boat is factory AC, Hybrid, VW165, 2011 us spec. I'm 99% sure that nothing has been modified in terms of plumbing, but I suppose anything is possible.

The diesel seawater loop IS separate from the AC/Hybrid cooling loop except for 2 places: #1 is the T hanging below the exhaust elbow. When the motor is running some of the AC/Hybrid cooling water exits here. #2 is the prop shaft seal, this has 2 inputs, one from Diesel cooling and other from AC/Hybrid cooling.

So both places where they come together are essentially 'outlets', that is only while the Diesel is running and shaft is spinning.

All of our seacocks are below the waterline and we have 6 total: Diesel raw water strainer AC/Hybrid strainer, bilge pump/AC outlet, grey water pump outlet, Black water outlet, anchor locker washdown pump.

Still waiting on my D3 220, hopefully no more than 1 month now.
Todd

Very interesting. So it is I that has the non-standard installation (i.e. no T hanging below the exhaust elbow). I guess I should be thankful for that! Even more interesting is what you mention about the prop shaft seal. I do not have anything connected to that. In fact, I'm having trouble getting my head around this (perhaps it's the g&t at my desk) - could you send a picture of your prop shaft seal?? This is quite a surprise.
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Old 07-23-2021, 02:05 PM   #19
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Scott,
Although I did (incredibly) find an actual picture of my shaft seal in my phone, posting it is a PITA because you have to host it somewhere, and although I do have a hosing service I have no idea how to get into it right not. Here is the seal I have, with 2 hoses. I think the idea is one hose feeds when diesel is on, and if you running on electric only the other hose feeds.

https://www.tidesmarine.com/ws/index...&product_id=30

Perhaps this was retrofitted? I do know the previous owners and I highly doubt it!

Enjoy that G&T!
a few more hours of work for me today and I'll be joining you!
Best, Todd
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Old 07-23-2021, 03:13 PM   #20
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Scott,
Although I did (incredibly) find an actual picture of my shaft seal in my phone, posting it is a PITA because you have to host it somewhere, and although I do have a hosing service I have no idea how to get into it right not. Here is the seal I have, with 2 hoses. I think the idea is one hose feeds when diesel is on, and if you running on electric only the other hose feeds.

https://www.tidesmarine.com/ws/index...&product_id=30

Perhaps this was retrofitted? I do know the previous owners and I highly doubt it!

Enjoy that G&T!
a few more hours of work for me today and I'll be joining you!
Best, Todd

Fascinating. Mine is a Volvo Penta, as in the attached document. Only one small tube...and that's for the injection of occasional grease. Otherwise, the water comes from the outside - though it is indeed dripless inside the engine room. I know for certain this was as delivered from the factory -- at least on my boat in 2010. Perhaps yours is factory spec too - as I've seen plenty of evidence of them "experimenting" on things over the years.



Regarding picture uploads - I may be misunderstanding you. But -- even on a phone -- why can't you click on the "manage attachments" button in the TF post when you reply and upload the jpg -- either from your computer or your phone? I've done both before.


Med vänliga hälsningar,
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File Type: pdf Volvo Penta Shaft Seal Installation Instructions.pdf (145.9 KB, 6 views)
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