Vaccination passports

[angus99]

Hippo, your comments are accurate and welcome, but you are wasting your time. I am also giving up commenting on this because some here just want to state their opinion w/o an open mind or any intention of considering what you or others have to say.

I do find it funny that the same people who don't trust the FDA and the science behind the vaccines, will order some unregulated pills from a foreign country and insist that gives them 100% protection. I wish them the best of luck.

Well said. Hard to believe people in the 21st century still line up for snake oil. “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelli . . .” Well, we all know the rest.

 

[backinblue]

And Mark Twain said: "Never argue with ......"

 

[AZ2Loop]

...You need someone who is infected and someone able to be infected in close enough proximity to get infected.
....

Thanks Dr. Obvious. Sometimes I feel like I could have tested out of medical school without cracking a book.

I'm really just kidding, Hippocampus. I just thought that statement was funny coming from someone with your education! I have enjoyed and learned from your posts (though perhaps not that one), although we apparently see the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness of the more restrictive lock downs and protective measures differently. I really do appreciate your comments.

 

[backinblue]

Thanks Dr. Obvious. Sometimes I feel like I could have tested out of medical school without cracking a book.

I'm really just kidding, Hippocampus. I just thought that statement was funny coming from someone with your education! I have enjoyed and learned from your posts (though perhaps not that one), although we apparently see the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness of the more restrictive lock downs and protective measures differently. I really do appreciate your comments.

I suspect Hippo was dumbing it down from some here that are obviously not as highly educated as Hippo.

 

[AZ2Loop]

So, for the folks who have become convinced that masks do not inhibit the aerosol spread of disease, I have a simple question. If you ever need surgery, before they put you under and cut you open are you going to tell the surgeon and nurses not to bother wearing surgical masks because they do no good and you have proof?

A funny answer: If the surgeon is going the wear the mask the way most people wear their masks, then I would say there is no point at all in the surgeon donning one either. I love watching someone walk across the parking lot 20 feet from anyone with their mask on, virtue signaling to the world how much they care. Then they pull their mask down around their adam's apple and blow spittle at the dude 2 feet away at the deli counter while they order a 1/2 pound of pickle loaf. Nothing screams I am idiot louder than that. Then by the time they walk a few aisles in the store the mask works its way down so their nose is sticking out, maybe by accident, maybe by stupidity, or maybe just so they can breathe without fogging their glasses. They rub their nose, then fondle 7 avacodoes to find the right one, before you walk up and buy 3 they just handled 30 seconds later. But, hey, they have a mask on! You feel safe, right? They will tell you they wear it out of respect for others. I have too much respect for others to pretend like those actions would protect them. Who are we kidding? Thankfully, surgeons know better, so I would prefer the surgeon do as they are trained. The general population appears not to know or care how to wear a mask, or they wear the mask only to comply or as a virtue signal.

The real answer: I have not heard anyone say masks do not inhibit the aerosol spread of disease. That is a very general statement, far too broad, and a straw man argument. However, masking mandates have proven ineffective in slowing the spread of COVID. That may be because the general public is not properly trained in wearing them. Even if you believe that wearing the mask works while folks are wearing them and doing so properly, the spread of COVID is still prevalent enough that there is ZERO statistical difference between mask mandated and locked down areas vs wide open areas. I cannot say what the reasons are, but the stats prove over and over again that it is having no effect at all. As I have stated above, you cannot hide from this virus. You can wish you can, but you cannot. You can want it to have an effect, but it doesn't. Just look at the numbers.... the science.

 

[soin2la]

Yes, I call it watching Dr Bonnie live on BCTV this morning.

Then you either misunderstood or you believe you can reinvent normal.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/03/05/dix-covid-19-restrictions-summer/

“Dix explains, even if everyone gets their first dose of vaccine before July 1, some restrictions could still be in place well into autumn.

Being immunized against COVID-19 by Canada Day doesn’t mean you’ll be free to leave the country or attend a music festival.”

 

[ranger58sb]

However, masking mandates have proven ineffective in slowing the spread of COVID.

Kind of difficult to prove that negative.

As you know, most of the "official" reporting -- at least what we've seen (CDC, state and county health departments, etc.) -- suggests masks HAVE slowed the spread. May be equally difficult to prove that, too.

-Chris

 

[backinblue]

Regardless of how much data there is to support mask wearing or, is it that big a deal to put one on? Is it that hard to care a little about others? Even if only 10% effective, it's better than zero. I doubt there is any data supporting masks having absolutely zero effect. I saw on the news last night, someone getting a double lung replacement (very rare operation) in order to save her life after getting infected from COVID. Sure, many will survive COVID with no problem, but some will have serious complications and some will die. Don't be an arrogant a-hole, put a mask on and care at least a little that maybe you helped someone with the slightest effort on your part.

 

[Wangtang]

Totally agree with you! Even though it doesn't affect you that much, for someone it may be fatal. I just can't understand why people are so careless..

 

[ssobol]

Regardless of how much data there is to support mask wearing or, is it that big a deal to put one on? Is it that hard to care a little about others? ...

Apparently so for the ME generation. Lots of evidence of it beyond mask wearing too.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Regardless of how much data there is to support mask wearing or, is it that big a deal to put one on? Is it that hard to care a little about others? Even if only 10% effective, it's better than zero. I doubt there is any data supporting masks having absolutely zero effect. I saw on the news last night, someone getting a double lung replacement (very rare operation) in order to save her life after getting infected from COVID. Sure, many will survive COVID with no problem, but some will have serious complications and some will die. Don't be an arrogant a-hole, put a mask on and care at least a little that maybe you helped someone with the slightest effort on your part.

Well I guess I could shame folks into wearing a bullet proof vest too.

If you want to wear a mask and stay locked up in your house, feel free to do so.

Whether I wear a mask or not is my choice, not yours or the government.

I will not comply.

 

[trihartsfield]

The only, to date, randomized controlled study on public use of mask to control COVID-19. There are other studies but none to this level. I have worked in medicine for 35 years and understand how to read studies. This is a pretty good study. But like any studies there are some flaws.


https://fee.org/articles/new-danish...dvq7PwhZg_ercQNhY1a3BqAzAopePTAfO-vw-1Vrsd2iw

 

[backinblue]

Well I guess I could shame folks into wearing a bullet proof vest too.

If you want to wear a mask and stay locked up in your house, feel free to do so.

Whether I wear a mask or not is my choice, not yours or the government.

I will not comply.

Not exactly. First I don't want to stay locked up or wear a mask. I put on a mask only as required to enter a store. If the govt makes it a law or regulation, you do have to comply otherwise face the penalty. You don't have to comply as long as you don't enter. You can also choose not to stop at a red light if you are willing to accept the consequences. Unfortunately, your behavior in both cases may cause harm to others.

 

[FWT]

CDC says yesterday that masks and restaurant shutdowns work! It reduces covid by between 0.7% and 1.9%. So we need to keep doing it.

Trust the science! Yeah, right.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-mask-restaurant-small-impact-covid

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm?s_cid=mm7010e3_w

 

[ssobol]

... You can also choose not to stop at a red light if you are willing to accept the consequences. Unfortunately, your behavior in both cases may cause harm to others.

It's fine to make your own decisions on actions if you are the only one impacted by those decisions. The problem is inflicting the consequences of your actions on others without their consent.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

It's fine to make your own decisions on actions if you are the only one impacted by those decisions. The problem is inflicting the consequences of your actions on others without their consent.

As I have stated. Don't want the possibility of being exposed, stay home and wear a mask 24/. Your choice.

My choice is not to comply. Again follow who is getting rich off off this.

 

[ssobol]

As I have stated. Don't want the possibility of being exposed, stay home and wear a mask 24/. Your choice.

My choice is not to comply. Again follow who is getting rich off off this.

Wearing a mask is just one situation.

The example given was not stopping for red lights. It is your choice to stop for red lights or not. If you choose not to, you take the chance that you will get stopped by the police. Fine, that's on you and you made your choice.

On the other hand, perhaps you choose not to stop for the red light and hit a pedestrian in the crosswalk or t-bone a family in a minivan. So you've got consequences on you (damaged your car), but you have also imposed potentially life changing consequences on someone else because you felt that the rule to stop at red lights did not apply to you.

You might say that this is an extreme example. However, you can or injure someone by infecting them with covid. Perhaps you feel that since they would have a hard time proving that you were the infector (unlike recording you in a red light cam) the odds that the consequences of your choice are unlikely to come back and bite you so why should you care.

Again, the point of masks is not to protect you from others, it is to protect others from you. Pretty much the same reason there are red lights.

 

[soin2la]

Whether I wear a mask or not is my choice, not yours or the government.I will not comply.

As I have stated. Don't want the possibility of being exposed, stay home and wear a mask 24/. Your choice. My choice is not to comply.

If you are still planning to refuel in Port McNeill, that unwelcome, bombastic attitude will change real quick.

That’s my polite response.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Wearing a mask is just one situation.

The example given was not stopping for red lights. It is your choice to stop for red lights or not. If you choose not to, you take the chance that you will get stopped by the police. Fine, that's on you and you made your choice.

On the other hand, perhaps you choose not to stop for the red light and hit a pedestrian in the crosswalk or t-bone a family in a minivan. So you've got consequences on you (damaged your car), but you have also imposed potentially life changing consequences on someone else because you felt that the rule to stop at red lights did not apply to you.

You might say that this is an extreme example. However, you can or injure someone by infecting them with covid. Perhaps you feel that since they would have a hard time proving that you were the infector (unlike recording you in a red light cam) the odds that the consequences of your choice are unlikely to come back and bite you so why should you care.

Again, the point of masks is not to protect you from others, it is to protect others from you. Pretty much the same reason there are red lights.

Your red light example is bogus. There is no law within the USA that requires a mask. There is a law to stop at the stop light when red.

If you are still planning to refuel in Port McNeill, that unwelcome, bombastic attitude will change real quick.

That’s my polite response.

You might not like my attitude, but I really don't care. If I stop at Port McNeill and I am required to wear a mask, I will wear one. However, you have no say in the USA! So pound sand. That my polite response.

 

[tiltrider1]

Your red light example is bogus. There is no law within the USA that requires a mask. There is a law to stop at the stop light when red.



You might not like my attitude, but I really don't care. If I stop at Port McNeill and I am required to wear a mask, I will wear one. However, you have no say in the USA! So pound sand. That my polite response.

I can't say that your are right or wrong about it being the law to wear a mask in the United States. In Washington the Governor mandated that businesses couldn't be open unless they required customers to wear a mask. Is this a law? Is it legal? You can't ride a bus with out a mask. I think we will need a court case to determine what is legal or not.

This means the red light scenario might not be bogus. Other than the technicality of a law I think it is a pretty good analogy.

 

[angus99]

As I have stated. Don't want the possibility of being exposed, stay home and wear a mask 24/. Your choice.

My choice is not to comply. Again follow who is getting rich off off this.

Yeah, so sick of all those nurses, researchers, EMTs, statisticians and health dept employees flashing their diamonds and driving Porsches. They see the human costs of Covid every day, their burnout rate is astronomical and they have people like you feeding the disease pipeline because it’s infringing on your freedom to not wear a mask.

Of course you meant big pharma and doctors who, as we all know, are only in it for the money, right? The irony is, the more people who think like you, the more people get infected, the longer the pandemic lasts and the richer they all get.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I can't say that your are right or wrong about it being the law to wear a mask in the United States. In Washington the Governor mandated that businesses couldn't be open unless they required customers to wear a mask. Is this a law? Is it legal? You can't ride a bus with out a mask. I think we will need a court case to determine what is legal or not.

This means the red light scenario might not be bogus. Other than the technicality of a law I think it is a pretty good analogy.

I can't say that your are right or wrong about it being the law to wear a mask in the United States. In Washington the Governor mandated that businesses couldn't be open unless they required customers to wear a mask. Is this a law? Is it legal? You can't ride a bus with out a mask. I think we will need a court case to determine what is legal or not.

This means the red light scenario might not be bogus. Other than the technicality of a law I think it is a pretty good analogy.

You could be right. There are current lawsuits in the system now.. some parties as churches and such filed suits and won.

Some States are reopening 100%. Those States that refused to lockdown are doing good with their economies and reduced illness.

However, most states have issued Executive Orders for mask wearing, distancing etc. These are not laws. Some feel they are unconditional. They were not passed by the State Legislators with the exception of a few places like NY.

Even these State Governments are canceling or failing to renew emergency orders that the Govenors enjoyed. Alaska is such a state.

The Federal Government has not enacting laws for masks. Why? State rights.

 

[AZ2Loop]

The red light argument is moronic.

The argument about mask mandates is whether they are effective or not. Nobody is arguing whether a law to stop at a red light is effective or not. It is an inarguable point. The analogy might seem applicable to a 3rd grader, but if you give it any reasonable amount of thought, you note will one is an argument about compliance, while the other is an argument about the effectiveness.

 

[FWT]

CDC says yesterday that masks and restaurant shutdowns work! It reduces covid by between 0.7% and 1.9%. So we need to keep doing it.

Trust the science! Yeah, right.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-mask-restaurant-small-impact-covid

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm?s_cid=mm7010e3_w

Uh, people are politely ignoring the CDC study just released that says masks and shutdowns don't work. Instead, focusing on noncompliance with the Karen orders.

Read it. Science does not support the masks.

 

[BruceK]

Your red light example is bogus. There is no law within the USA that requires a mask. There is a law to stop at the stop light when red.
You might not like my attitude, but I really don't care. If I stop at Port McNeill and I am required to wear a mask, I will wear one. However, you have no say in the USA! So pound sand. That my polite response.

Any business can have rules for entry to its premises, and/or as a condition of providing service. It does not require a law to exist. It`s good you own one and will wear it when required. You are part of the way to prioritizing reality over politically generated views. You are a decent guy, I cannot believe you don`t care about the welfare of others.

 

[AZ2Loop]

Kind of difficult to prove that negative.

As you know, most of the "official" reporting -- at least what we've seen (CDC, state and county health departments, etc.) -- suggests masks HAVE slowed the spread. May be equally difficult to prove that, too.

-Chris

While you might think it would be difficult to prove, it is not. The statistics are readily available. We want it to be effective, but it is not.



I think you may be confusing reporting and data.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. AZ. I think the red light analogy WAS directed toward 3 year olds...Just sayin.

 

[Frosty]

Uh, people are politely ignoring the CDC study just released that says masks and shutdowns don't work. Instead, focusing on noncompliance with the Karen orders.

"Karens" are privileged white women who use that privilege to endanger or call out black people or other minorities, or to get ahead of them. Their behavior is not something I support.

But what are "Karen orders" and how are they related to COVID, vaccinations, or masking?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Any business can have rules for entry to its premises, and/or as a condition of providing service. It does not require a law to exist. It`s good you own one and will wear it when required. You are part of the way to prioritizing reality over politically generated views. You are a decent guy, I cannot believe you don`t care about the welfare of others.

Agree business has a right to "refuse service" unless it is a racial type issue.

But I also have the right to spend my money in a different establishment that is acceptable to me.

Caring about people isn't the issue if those same people try to force you to comply with a mandate you find objectable, fear mongering and violates my right as an American.

 

[Yahoo 1]

Yeah, so sick of all those nurses, researchers, EMTs, statisticians and health dept employees flashing their diamonds and driving Porsches. They see the human costs of Covid every day, their burnout rate is astronomical and they have people like you feeding the disease pipeline because it’s infringing on your freedom to not wear a mask.

Of course you meant big pharma and doctors who, as we all know, are only in it for the money, right? The irony is, the more people who think like you, the more people get infected, the longer the pandemic lasts and the richer they all get.

Indeed Ian from what I read in this thread it seems that the possible side effects of vaccination is nothing compared to the actual side effects of the non-vaccination