Vaccination passports

[AZ2Loop]

And I wouldn't care to have you. Another guy will happily take your place.

Careful there, catalinajack. That line to work for you is getting shorter and shorter as those in line "learn to code" and make solar panels.

 

[AZ2Loop]

So people who died some time after getting a vaccine. Unless you have data on causation that is meaningless.

That sounds a lot like the COVID numbers, doesn't it? Healthy 39 year old dies of COVID (oh, and a little motorcycle accident, but turns out she was positive so let's call it COVID).

Or, perfectly healthy 44 year old father of 3 dies of COVID. Of course in the picture one can see he was 150 pounds overweight and reading deeper reveals he was in the hospital for the past 6 weeks being treated for some other illness. Still sad. Still important. Still tragic. Just not COVID.

The causation thing works both ways. I'm NOT saying this virus is not dangerous. It is. Or at least it can be. What I am saying is the number of deaths is drastically overinflated as the "science" is starting to reveal, and reluctantly being reported. Dying with it and dying from it are 2 different things. The number of cases (the denominator) is grossly under reported because so many people have it or have had it and do not even know it.

When one corrects for those realities, the numerator shrinks and the denominator grows tremendously. That changes the death rate to numbers well under 1%, factoring in old and young, healthy and feeble alike.

So, to be intellectually honest, one has to consider causation (die from it, or die with it) in the COVID numbers as well.

 

[backinblue]

So people who died some time after getting a vaccine. Unless you have data on causation that is meaningless.

Very true. In fact the article says:

The recent deaths included a 70-year-old man who received a Moderna COVID vaccine on Jan. 11. He died nine days later on Jan. 20 after suffering a heart attack. He was on medication for heart problems and had a preexisting lung condition from chronic smoking.

The other reported death was an 83-year-old man who received the Pfizer COVID vaccine on Jan. 11 and died on Feb. 20. He had preexisting nerve and blood disorders.

Sounds like these people may have died regardless of the vaccine, not because of it. Be very careful quoting and stats or data because they are not an absolute truth. Data can be manipulated or interpreted to support whatever your opinion is.

As an example, in my state, if someone died and was then found to be infected by COVID, the death was counted as a COVID-related fatality. There was nothing done to determine whether the death was actually caused by COVID. I'm guessing some segment of the state govt or agencies receives federal funds related to death rate. Makes me question how many of the 500K deaths are truly because of COVID. I am not trivializing the deaths, just saying that numbers are not absolute.

Anyway, I will get the vaccine as ASAP. I am currently scheduled in April. I am not particularly fearful for myself, but I believe that this is the best tool we all have for defeating the pandemic.

 

[backinblue]

That sounds a lot like the COVID numbers, doesn't it? Healthy 39 year old dies of COVID (oh, and a little motorcycle accident, but turns out she was positive so let's call it COVID).

Or, perfectly healthy 44 year old father of 3 dies of COVID. Of course in the picture one can see he was 150 pounds overweight and reading deeper reveals he was in the hospital for the past 6 weeks being treated for some other illness. Still sad. Still important. Still tragic. Just not COVID.

The causation thing works both ways. I'm NOT saying this virus is not dangerous. It is. Or at least it can be. What I am saying is the number of deaths is drastically overinflated as the "science" is starting to reveal, and reluctantly being reported. Dying with it and dying from it are 2 different things. The number of cases (the denominator) is grossly under reported because so many people have it or have had it and do not even know it.

When one corrects for those realities, the numerator shrinks and the denominator grows tremendously. That changes the death rate to numbers well under 1%, factoring in old and young, healthy and feeble alike.

So, to be intellectually honest, one has to consider causation (die from it, or die with it) in the COVID numbers as well.

What he said.....

 

[OldDan1943]

No changing of minds here..

So can we get back to boat issues?

 

[jleonard]

No changing of minds here..

So can we get back to boat issues?

Nobody is rafting up to me unless you have proof of vaccination and your fenders are wearing masks!!

 

[TWedd]

Still waiting to hear how safe the vaccine is 1 year later, or 2 or 3 years. What are the long term side effects? Nobody knows. I may get the vaccine one day, but right now I am uncomfortable being a first adopter. I was prescribed a new medicine as a teenager. 20 years later it was banned due to an increase in cancer rates. Think I'll wait a while....

 

[backinblue]

Still waiting to hear how safe the vaccine is 1 year later, or 2 or 3 years. What are the long term side effects? Nobody knows. I may get the vaccine one day, but right now I am uncomfortable being a first adopter. I was prescribed a new medicine as a teenager. 20 years later it was banned due to an increase in cancer rates. Think I'll wait a while....

Hope you are still around and well in a few years.

 

[TWedd]

Thanks, I also hope all that get the vaccine are around and well in a few years.

 

[catalinajack]

Wasn't this discussion about legal crossings? What an inane worthless contribution to what has been a serious discussion.

Or just come to the U.S. across the southern border. No vaccine or passport required.

 

[backinblue]

Wasn't this discussion about legal crossings? What an inane worthless contribution to what has been a serious discussion.

Is it illegal if the President of the country and the congress say it's ok? I was making a point that we have all kinds of travel and lockdown restrictions for citizens everywhere in the U.S. while encouraging an open border w/o restrictions. You can disagree without personal insults.

The original discussion asked about what kind of future restrictions might exists for crossing international borders in the face of COVID, so I don't think my post was totally out of context.

 

[catalinajack]

You feel insulted. Why? Your comment adds nothing to the conversation. I suppose calling out someone on comments made for being what they are can be perceived as insulting. However, should I ever say something that fits the bill, I will accept the criticism. I don't consider what I said as personally insulting. I think it was a factual statement. Remember, the topic is "vaccination passports". What did your comment and the comments made in this response have anything to do with the topic?

And, by the way, no one, no one is encouraging totally open borders with no restrictions. Not I and no one I know. My grandparents came from over across, legally.

Is it illegal if the President of the country and the congress says it's ok? I was making a point that we have all kinds of travel and lockdown restrictions for citizens everywhere while encouraging an open border w/o restrictions. You can disagree without personal insults.

 

[backinblue]

You feel insulted. Why? Your comment adds nothing to the conversation. I suppose calling out someone on comments made for being what they are can be perceived as insulting. However, should I ever say something that fits the bill, I will accept the criticism. I don't consider what I said as personally insulting. I think it was a factual statement. Remember, the topic is "vaccination passports". What did your comment and the comments made in this response have anything to do with the topic?

And, by the way, no one, no one is encouraging totally open borders with no restrictions. Not I and no one I know. My grandparents came from over across, legally.

That's your opinion. Apparently, your opinion is all that matters here. I find it funny that you think you are entitled to call my comments "worthless" but call yours "factual".

Maybe nobody is encouraging totally open borders, but that is just semantics. What do you call it when foreigners are allowed into the country without passports or COVID tests and then released into the general population?

 

[ksanders]

Good job guys!

You have taken a simple vaccine or no vaccine issue, something not political at all and made it political.

Remember gentlemen, the Vaccine is and was supported by both the right and the left factions in America.

It's not like conservatives are against it, or liberals are for it. Far from it...

It's a segment of the population, the anti Vax'ers that are dead set against it, and these are drawn from both sides of the political spectrum.

Probably from the naturalist and the Qanon fringe elements.

 

[Xsbank]

At our current rate of vaccination, it will take Canada 7 years to get everyone. Don't hold your breath for an open border this year.

You can, however, walk over the border and the RCMP that meet you will even carry your luggage and not only that, you can become a citizen that way. Getting your boat over is easy then, just have it delivered.

However, most of the people I know, upon seeing a Seattle Yacht Club member in Desolation, will call the border patrol (he's a busy guy) and blow that whistle. Cops were in Grace Harbour last summer rousting the "going to Alaska" cheaters and sending them back to the border. They did mention that confiscation is possible for an illegal border crossing, if you are tired of boat ownership...

If everyone who wants to be shot, is, then those who aren't are juggling with Jesus or if you prefer, testing Darwinism, which is your right.

 

[SteveK]

PNW boaters hoping to enter BC take notice, the idea of a vaccination passport may gain momentum. This is due to BC now expecting normalacy by July for BC residents.

BC has now adopted a 112 day between doses. This means everyone can get a first dose months earlier and by the end of July.
Also Astrazenica has arrived and will be offered to under 65, and also to any age first responders ahead of their normal by age assignment date.
Our Dr Bonnie Henry is optimistic that BC will see normalacy by July.

I would no longer rule out an extra measure of caution to be applied as the border opens.

 

[Xsbank]

I'll believe it when it happens. Its 15 years and counting since some bright spark suggested that the military needed new sidearms as the WW2 ones were worn out and there is still no decision. "What does the US/Israel/Oz use? Buy those." The one thing we're good at? Posing.

The Astra one is only about 60% effective, somewhere near the usual 'flu vaccine and its no good for seniors. They say.

 

[backinblue]

PNW boaters hoping to enter BC take notice, the idea of a vaccination passport may gain momentum. This is due to BC now expecting normalacy by July for BC residents.

BC has now adopted a 112 day between doses. This means everyone can get a first dose months earlier and by the end of July.
Also Astrazenica has arrived and will be offered to under 65, and also to any age first responders ahead of their normal by age assignment date.
Our Dr Bonnie Henry is optimistic that BC will see normalacy by July.

I would no longer rule out an extra measure of caution to be applied as the border opens.

Hi Soo

That sounds like good news but I would offer a word of caution based on personal experience. Just because you become eligible for a vaccine on a certain date, doesn't mean you can get one. I became eligible yesterday in my state. I was online very early yesterday morning (much like trying to buy concert tickets online when the go on sale) scheduling my vaccine and the best available date was end of April. Most facilities had no appointments available. By last night, the news was reporting no available appointments and urging residents to be patient and estimating it could be June before some currently eligible residents receive a vaccine. The next phase opens up in a few weeks which will add more people to the mix. There are also not currently enough facilities to vaccinate everyone even if the vaccine was available. Things may eventually improve as more vaccines reach the market, but supply cannot keep up with the current demand. I think it's overly optimistic right now when you say "everyone can get the first dose much earlier".

 

[backinblue]

I'll believe it when it happens. Its 15 years and counting since some bright spark suggested that the military needed new sidearms as the WW2 ones were worn out and there is still no decision. "What does the US/Israel/Oz use? Buy those." The one thing we're good at? Posing.

The Astra one is only about 60% effective, somewhere near the usual 'flu vaccine and its no good for seniors. They say.

Actually the flu vaccine is usually worse than 60% (40-50%), but I still get it.

I just did a quick google of the senior citizen issue and there is a lot of controversy and different opinions. In my 5 mins of looking, it sounds like conclusions were drawn from a test group that had a very small percentage of participants over 65 so the results may not be statistically significant or may be misinterpreted.

 

[SteveK]

Hi Soo

That sounds like good news but I would offer a word of caution based on personal experience. Just because you become eligible for a vaccine on a certain date, doesn't mean you can get one. I became eligible yesterday in my state. I was online very early yesterday morning (much like trying to buy concert tickets online when the go on sale) scheduling my vaccine and the best available date was end of April. Most facilities had no appointments available. By last night, the news was reporting no available appointments and urging residents to be patient and estimating it could be June before some currently eligible residents receive a vaccine. The next phase opens up in a few weeks which will add more people to the mix. There are also not currently enough facilities to vaccinate everyone even if the vaccine was available. Things may eventually improve as more vaccines reach the market, but supply cannot keep up with the current demand. I think it's overly optimistic right now when you say "everyone can get the first dose much earlier".

Of course the supply chain and expected arrivals are part of this formula.
These were not idle promises to give hope. One thing has been constant in BC, it is totally free of politics on medical decisions.

 

[SteveK]

I'll believe it when it happens. Its 15 years and counting since some bright spark suggested that the military needed new sidearms as the WW2 ones were worn out and there is still no decision. "What does the US/Israel/Oz use? Buy those." The one thing we're good at? Posing.

The Astra one is only about 60% effective, somewhere near the usual 'flu vaccine and its no good for seniors. They say.

They used to say that, not any longer. Check out https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=982392&postcount=336

 

[Northern Spy]

For the Americans planning to come to BC this summer.

This is where BC is at:

March 8, 2021: Seniors born in or before 1931 (90 years+)/Indigenous peoples born in or before 1956 (65 years+) may call to book their vaccine appointment.

March 15, 2021: Seniors born in or before 1936 (85 years+) may call to book their vaccine appointment.

March 22, 2021: Seniors born in or before 1941 (80 years+) may call to book their vaccine appointment.

Needless to say the population swells considerably when we get under the age of 80.

And this is only for the first shot. The second shot for 80 year-olds will be in July. B.C. provincial health officials have decided to spread the doses of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines to 16 weeks. (Not 30 days)

Nice hair, though.

 

[backinblue]

Of course the supply chain and expected arrivals are part of this formula.
These were not idle promises to give hope. One thing has been constant in BC, it is totally free of politics on medical decisions.

Non-political must be refreshing. Quite the opposite here. Actually, medical decisions are probably not political, but politicians are quick to take credit and assign blame for any sign of success or failure.

 

[backinblue]

For the Americans planning to come to BC this summer.

This is where BC is at:

March 8, 2021: Seniors born in or before 1931 (90 years+)/Indigenous peoples born in or before 1956 (65 years+) may call to book their vaccine appointment.

March 15, 2021: Seniors born in or before 1936 (85 years+) may call to book their vaccine appointment.

March 22, 2021: Seniors born in or before 1941 (80 years+) may call to book their vaccine appointment.

Needless to say the population swells considerably when we get under the age of 80.

And this is only for the first shot. The second shot for 80 year-olds will be in July. B.C. provincial health officials have decided to spread the doses of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines to 16 weeks. (Not 30 days)

Nice hair, though.

We have similar rollouts here, but as I pointed out, don't assume that eligible people can actually find a vaccine on the dates they become eligible?

 

[Northern Spy]

We have similar rollouts here, but as I pointed out, don't assume that eligible people can actually find a vaccine on the dates they become eligible?

Of course they can't. It is very disorganized.

My post was to show how pathetic the roll-out is relative to the states. Most of my senior relatives in the states are vaccinated. We are just starting, and then not even doing the second dose as we have limited vaccine.

The provincial and federal government are trying to spin the federal failure into a success story.

Either way. I doubt there will be a border opening anytime soon. September?

The vaccination passport is a slippery slope for Canada politicians, as they didn't procure vaccine with delivery dates, nor did they licence to manufacture in-house. The bulk of the people that would benefit from the passport to travel (middle age with disposable income) are the least likely to receive the vaccine in a timely manner. No way are they going to let vaccinated foreigners come to Canada with a vaccination passport, if the bulk of the Canadian population isn't vaccinated to a international agreed upon standard in order to qualify for a passport themselves.

 

[BandB]

The Astra one is only about 60% effective, somewhere near the usual 'flu vaccine and its no good for seniors. They say.

Now what they say if you read the other thread. What was said was that Astra Zeneca failed to provide adequate testing and data on seniors. However, now the UK has administered to seniors in great quantity with good success so others will likely expand it's use to seniors. Nothing ever said it didn't work for seniors, just had inadequate data.

 

[jgtrucking]

Ok first off U.S. speaking, outside of the us msy be similar, but i cant say. What you need to look at is total deaths. Every cause of death under the sun is WAY down, every death imaginable this past year was blamed on covid. For simple financial reasons. $. Hospitals especially got paid to attribute any death they could to covid. The problem with science is you need ALL the facts. And you will never get all the facts from mainstream media today. They have an agenda to push. You have to do your own due dilligence.
In regards to Canada, if they want to make this political, and force an unproven vaccine rushed through to get in, im very happy not to go there. We have to fight hard enough here to retain our god given rights.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Nobody is rafting up to me unless you have proof of vaccination and your fenders are wearing masks!!

You can raft to me anytime!

Still waiting to hear how safe the vaccine is 1 year later, or 2 or 3 years. What are the long term side effects? Nobody knows. I may get the vaccine one day, but right now I am uncomfortable being a first adopter. I was prescribed a new medicine as a teenager. 20 years later it was banned due to an increase in cancer rates. Think I'll wait a while....

This is a very good point. Hence still an experimental vaccine.

Good job guys!

You have taken a simple vaccine or no vaccine issue, something not political at all and made it political.

Remember gentlemen, the Vaccine is and was supported by both the right and the left factions in America.

It's not like conservatives are against it, or liberals are for it. Far from it...

It's a segment of the population, the anti Vax'ers that are dead set against it, and these are drawn from both sides of the political spectrum.

Probably from the naturalist and the Qanon fringe elements.

Good point!!

At our current rate of vaccination, it will take Canada 7 years to get everyone. Don't hold your breath for an open border this year.

You can, however, walk over the border and the RCMP that meet you will even carry your luggage and not only that, you can become a citizen that way. Getting your boat over is easy then, just have it delivered.

However, most of the people I know, upon seeing a Seattle Yacht Club member in Desolation, will call the border patrol (he's a busy guy) and blow that whistle. Cops were in Grace Harbour last summer rousting the "going to Alaska" cheaters and sending them back to the border. They did mention that confiscation is possible for an illegal border crossing, if you are tired of boat ownership...

If everyone who wants to be shot, is, then those who aren't are juggling with Jesus or if you prefer, testing Darwinism, which is your right.

As of today, I could enter BC as a transient boater according to the Government of Canada website, I may be allowed to transient Canada. The final decision is up to the border agent at the reporting site. So as before let be truthful about boarder crossings. There will be boarder crossings this summer with the approval of Border Patrol, just no tourism, recreational fishing or sight seeing.

As long as you follow the rules there should not be any issues.

If I have a Canadian boarder number, why would I get hassled by RMCP?

 

[backinblue]

Ok first off U.S. speaking, outside of the us msy be similar, but i cant say. What you need to look at is total deaths. Every cause of death under the sun is WAY down, every death imaginable this past year was blamed on covid. For simple financial reasons. $. Hospitals especially got paid to attribute any death they could to covid. The problem with science is you need ALL the facts. And you will never get all the facts from mainstream media today. They have an agenda to push. You have to do your own due dilligence.
In regards to Canada, if they want to make this political, and force an unproven vaccine rushed through to get in, im very happy not to go there. We have to fight hard enough here to retain our god given rights.

I don't disagree with most of what you say, but how is the vaccine unproven? You may choose not to get one, and that's your right and I have no problem with that, but I do take exception with people calling it experimental and unproven. Granted we won't know if there are long-term effects until that time passes, but what alternative do you suggest? Vaccinate 1M people and wait 10 years to vaccinate anyone else? Any new medicine or procedure that comes to market is not 100% risk free, but how else can it be done?

 

[psneeld]

Unproven for long term effects?


Innoculate every 15 year old on the planet and wait 70 years.


If you yo don't do that, how can you be sure? Even if a singular person is is most likely different in some way than every other one.