Northern Spy
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Fair enough.
Theodore Roosevelt Captain Being Reinstated
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
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Northern Spy
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Vietnam was arguably the safest place to visit at that time or since.
I had friends visiting there at the same time and multiple precautions were in place in March. Way ahead of the rest of the world.
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Article X, Navy Manual, (unofficial, of course). When there's a screw-up, there has to be a fall-guy. Why look hard for another when you have one done and dusted already..?
Northern Spy
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Who instituted the screw up?
His ship was headed for Guam already. He wasn't satisfied with the speed of the proceeding. Was the out come any different?
psneeld
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There are few protections in the military for keeping your assignment or your career. They can be a whim of a superior.
The only protection you really have is it is a bit harder to just throw you out of the service.
So if you rattle cages....you better not only be right....you are best served if you rattle cages that make your bosses look good too.....that''s if you want to not only keep your career but get something accomplished your way.
The only protection you really have is it is a bit harder to just throw you out of the service.
So if you rattle cages....you better not only be right....you are best served if you rattle cages that make your bosses look good too.....that''s if you want to not only keep your career but get something accomplished your way.
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psneeld
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The other side of the story (well at least a little bit).
So many fired up by the media over what might have been the truth.....or maybe not...or only part of the story
We may find out more as time goes on...but.... when immersed in a juggernaut of an organization, the truth comes in many forms.
So many fired up by the media over what might have been the truth.....or maybe not...or only part of the story
We may find out more as time goes on...but.... when immersed in a juggernaut of an organization, the truth comes in many forms.
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The case I made in post #153 rests, as the lawyers say...
psneeld
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But here there are 2 big fall guys named... if you call a proper, full investigation a witch hunt that ends in fall guys.
There will be fallout for others too...just not transfers or promotions held up...but many might get career ending remarks come evaluation time.
I am not so bold to guess where everyone would be if the investigation found the carrier captain and crew as demonstrating "excellent leadership" and it was external factors that were to blame.
There will be fallout for others too...just not transfers or promotions held up...but many might get career ending remarks come evaluation time.
I am not so bold to guess where everyone would be if the investigation found the carrier captain and crew as demonstrating "excellent leadership" and it was external factors that were to blame.
Northern Spy
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Captain Toti writes a reasonable lessons learned from the Roosevelt COVID outbreak.
13 Lessons from the Crozier Controversy
For those not inclined to read, here are the bullets:
1. An 80-percent solution delivered on time is almost always better than a 100-percent solution delivered too late.
2. Just because you aren’t an expert doesn’t mean you can’t evaluate the quality of data going into your decision.
3. Be careful when suggesting a course of action that could shift risk from a military population to a civilian one.
4. Military members should be more, not less, disciplined than average Americans.
5. How your crew behaves, even when you are not present, reflects on your leadership.
6. Properly inform and properly engage your chain of command.
7. Don’t presume you know more than you do about what’s going on outside your command.
8. Everything will leak.
9. Many of your crewmembers will use social media as their primary source of information.
10. Social media “campaigns” will create a new dynamic that can quickly spread off the ship.
11. Another danger: decision by “Twitter mob.”
12. Supporting staff is just that: supporting staff.
13. Panicked activity never helps.
13 Lessons from the Crozier Controversy
For those not inclined to read, here are the bullets:
1. An 80-percent solution delivered on time is almost always better than a 100-percent solution delivered too late.
2. Just because you aren’t an expert doesn’t mean you can’t evaluate the quality of data going into your decision.
3. Be careful when suggesting a course of action that could shift risk from a military population to a civilian one.
4. Military members should be more, not less, disciplined than average Americans.
5. How your crew behaves, even when you are not present, reflects on your leadership.
6. Properly inform and properly engage your chain of command.
7. Don’t presume you know more than you do about what’s going on outside your command.
8. Everything will leak.
9. Many of your crewmembers will use social media as their primary source of information.
10. Social media “campaigns” will create a new dynamic that can quickly spread off the ship.
11. Another danger: decision by “Twitter mob.”
12. Supporting staff is just that: supporting staff.
13. Panicked activity never helps.
psneeld
Guru
Yep....agree cross the board.
Being USCG, most missions involve the public somehow, so security of information is almost impossible to ensure. Radio and phone talk to accomplish the mission often explodes in the first couple of minutes to hours and involves many civilian and USCG entities. Sometimes very junior people are involved with communications and get twisted up a tad.
So I am very used to grand misunderstandings of how and why chain of command can experience a lot of friction over simple things.
Being USCG, most missions involve the public somehow, so security of information is almost impossible to ensure. Radio and phone talk to accomplish the mission often explodes in the first couple of minutes to hours and involves many civilian and USCG entities. Sometimes very junior people are involved with communications and get twisted up a tad.
So I am very used to grand misunderstandings of how and why chain of command can experience a lot of friction over simple things.
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That was a good article, thanks Northern Spy
Plus the other articles at Defence One were good reads too. Adding that site to my Web wandering.
psneeld
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I think this applies all over the place in this pandemic. For those that have spent their lives as critical thinkers probably view much of what is going on from others. Thus all the negative posting towards different points of view.
From the above link...
2. Just because you aren’t an expert doesn’t mean you can’t evaluate the quality of data going into your decision. At the time Crozier was making his decisions, the probability data on transmissibility of the disease was fairly good, hence his team could fairly accurately predict the rate of infections. But what was not known at that time was how severe those infections would be. Yet Crozier’s medical staff communicated as if they had high confidence in predicted fatality outcomes. Had the data on which they made these predictions been reliable, the frenetic nature of their actions, which included a threat to leak information to the press, might be easier to understand. But the data was based on a cruise ship event where the population demographic was very different that the Roosevelt’s. In this case it would have been tempting to think, “Well, I’m not a medical officer, so I will simply hit the ‘I believe button’ on what the doctors are telling me.” But leaders are required to evaluate data outside their area of expertise all the time. You may not be a mechanical engineer, but you will be required to decide on whether the data suggests you should interrupt operations to repair that pump now. You may not be an intelligence officer, but you will be required to decide whether targeting data is sufficient to support the strike. And just because you are not a physician does not absolve you of the responsibility to determine whether certain medical data justifies your decision. You will be accountable for your decision, not “the experts.”
From the above link...
2. Just because you aren’t an expert doesn’t mean you can’t evaluate the quality of data going into your decision. At the time Crozier was making his decisions, the probability data on transmissibility of the disease was fairly good, hence his team could fairly accurately predict the rate of infections. But what was not known at that time was how severe those infections would be. Yet Crozier’s medical staff communicated as if they had high confidence in predicted fatality outcomes. Had the data on which they made these predictions been reliable, the frenetic nature of their actions, which included a threat to leak information to the press, might be easier to understand. But the data was based on a cruise ship event where the population demographic was very different that the Roosevelt’s. In this case it would have been tempting to think, “Well, I’m not a medical officer, so I will simply hit the ‘I believe button’ on what the doctors are telling me.” But leaders are required to evaluate data outside their area of expertise all the time. You may not be a mechanical engineer, but you will be required to decide on whether the data suggests you should interrupt operations to repair that pump now. You may not be an intelligence officer, but you will be required to decide whether targeting data is sufficient to support the strike. And just because you are not a physician does not absolve you of the responsibility to determine whether certain medical data justifies your decision. You will be accountable for your decision, not “the experts.”
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