State of Michigan bans boats with motors

[BruceK]

I guess I don't understand this action, motor boats are not allowed. sailboats are.... I understand the need for social distancing.... Can someone please explain the logic behind this...

I think the distinction is: sailing is exercise, power boating is not. Whether true is debatable, but that is the rationale here.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

I think the distinction is: sailing is exercise, power boating is not. Whether true is debatable, but that is the rationale here.

The rationale for this should be to limit the spread of the disease... I fail to see the distinction between power and sailing in that regard....If exercise is deemed that important open the gyms, gown up in your Lulu Lemon best PPE and go for it.

 

[moparharn]

You say this from where??????

I live in Michigan and I say she has not. You handle your states issues and let us handle ours please. I can't even go for a walk without some punk jogging down the sidewalk right next to me. This same punk was out partying with his other "doesn't effect me" pals last night. This same punk is not wearing a mask while I do.

Never mind how it might effect me. This kind of thinking is literally killing our healthcare workers and first responders. I guess we have no choice but allow Darwinism to play out.

We can agree to disagree. I say Michigan's governor has overstepped.

 

[kthoennes]

Here we go again. Shut up and submit to house arrest or else you're murdering my grandmother.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. kt. How about: "I understand the severity of the situation and I will do all I can to stop the spread of disease?"

 

[moparharn]

What you do in SD is your business. What you do in Michigan is mine.

You aren't murdering my grandmother, she is already gone. You are murdering my children who work in a hospital. They should be put at risk because you can't suspend your movement for a few weeks while we get a crisis under control?

I suppose you would head for Canada if a war was on? Why should you be asked to sacrifice for the common good? Why should you even pay your taxes for that matter?

The President asked for 30 days to flatten the curve.

Here we go again. Shut up and submit to house arrest or else you're murdering my grandmother.

 

[Haloo]

We can agree to disagree. I say Michigan's governor has overstepped.

Large crowds of protesters in several states suggest the Governor has not overstepped. Where is the common sense so many are claiming we all have?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I guess I don't understand this action, motor boats are not allowed. sailboats are.... I understand the need for social distancing.... Can someone please explain the logic behind this...

Also explain why a liquor store or pot stores or State Lottery, big box stores are OK, but the local hardware store is being FORCED to shut down?

Perhaps she has overstepped a bit. So what. Are her intentions evil? We are live aboards in Maryland which has also prohibited recreational boating. I see no sense in that relative to some activities that are allowed but this will all pass sooner or later. Staying in port will not kill us. I am a rabid Constitutionalist but I see nothing in these orders that violates any of my rights.

So what? Really you are willing to give up your Constitutional Rights and liberties? Really? So for an example why is Sweden up and running, never shut down their country, yet Norway did as the USA and has many many more deaths and a shut down economy? Why is South Dakota doing better than any state, yet they never shut down.

You might want to read this:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/1...ACrWuYd8K_jIM9UDPeg6sQt-2Cuszy3kKg9kFXeGQdcxo

Here we go again. Shut up and submit to house arrest or else you're murdering my grandmother.

Exactly. Let's take care of the sick and end this shutdown madness.

 

[Larry M]

Folks, please calm down. Step back and take a deep breath.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Hey so has the ice left the big lakes up north. I understand the Canadian border was to open on April 20th, but has been moved to May 21st.

So on the west cost I wonder if there will be a mass of cruisers heading north on the 22nd of May?

 

[Haloo]

My wife is a physician. Many of our friends are doctors. One of our closest friends is a doctor who treats airway issues still doesn’t have adequate protective gear. She is at risk. Her elderly mother who lives with her is at risk. If was painful to listen to her describe having to intubate an untested patient with a critical airway problem YESTERDAY without adequate protection.

Medical clinics and hospitals are trying to figure out how to reopen all of their services in a way that won’t put all of their healthcare workers at risk. There are not nearly enough test kits to make this happen safely.

Why should people who will be taking care of you, or a loved one if you get CV19 or some other ailment (you could be a silent carrier), be put at greater risk so you can go boating, or paint your house?

This is not about whether you get CV19. If this were simply a personal risk, then go for it! The issue is about you getting others sick. And you may never know that the cause of someone else’s illness was caused by you.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Good point, however do it in such a way that will not infringe on our Civil Liberties and rights. Again take care of the sick and move on.

 

[moparharn]

"So what? Really you are willing to give up your Constitutional Rights and liberties? Really? So for an example why is Sweden up and running, never shut down their country, yet Norway did as the USA and has many many more deaths and a shut down economy? Why is South Dakota doing better than any state, yet they never shut down."


IF MY AUNT HAD BALLS SHE WOULD BE MY UNCLE.

South Dakota? Hmmmmm. Population density? Maybe ask yourself about the Smithfield Plant if you want to quote the genius of South Dakota. Stop using baseless comparisons to justify your wrong headedness. Your ideas put innocent lives at risk. Period. The re-opening plan has been put forward. As tenuous as it is I will support it until the scientists say otherwise.

 

[Haloo]

You might want to read this:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/1...ACrWuYd8K_jIM9UDPeg6sQt-2Cuszy3kKg9kFXeGQdcxo

Exactly. Let's take care of the sick and end this shutdown madness.

Well, my mentor in graduate school was a constitutional scholar. I had to read all of these Covenants and Compacts that formed the governmental basis for the original colonies, which in turn provided the self-governing experience that led to our Constitution. I also read lots of old political tracts the contributed to the foundations of democratic thought that influenced our founders.

I simply don’t see much understanding of our Constitution, or our historical experience, in the The Federalist rant. It’s just a rant with little depth and understanding of much of anything.

 

[Haloo]

Good point, however do it in such a way that will not infringe on our Civil Liberties and rights. Again take care of the sick and move on.

What is your proposal for how we should take care of the sick and move on?

 

[Frosty]

What is your proposal for how we should take care of the sick and move on?

I would also like to see your ideas, ASD. I'm getting a bit tired of staying at home; but not so tired that I can't keep on doing just this for months more if I need to. Heck, my parents' generation sacrificed for years (WWII). I thank my lucky stars I'm not out doing a risky job, nor am I running out of food.

But if there is a good plan, based on science, and that sounds logical for "taking care of the sick and moving on," I'm all ears. Would love to get to boating, doing what I want when I want, running to the store on a whim, trawler shopping (with my restored nest egg) etc.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Sick folks need to stay home and you can quarantine if you feel you need to. But forcing healthy folks to stay home seems familiar, oh Soviet Union. Americans don't mind staying home, but the lockdown is wrong. Its not science its called civil liberties and rights.

I would also like to see your ideas, ASD. I'm getting a bit tired of staying at home; but not so tired that I can't keep on doing just this for months more if I need to. Heck, my parents' generation sacrificed for years (WWII). I thank my lucky stars I'm not out doing a risky job, nor am I running out of food.

But if there is a good plan, based on science, and that sounds logical for "taking care of the sick and moving on," I'm all ears. Would love to get to boating, doing what I want when I want, running to the store on a whim, trawler shopping (with my restored nest egg) etc.

 

[Frosty]

Sick folks need to stay home.

But how do asymptomatic people (who are contagious) know they are sick? I could see that working if we had extensive testing and contact tracing, but we don't.

Some of the things that make Covid-19 such a big deal:

1) A person is contagious for much longer before showing symptoms than with colds or flus.

2) A person who is asymptomatic but has it is also contagious (no way to know without testing).

3) With something like SARS no-one is well enough to go out and infect a bunch of people, whereas that's not the case with Covid-19. So SARS is deadlier but it doesn't spread like wildfire because when you are contagious you are sick as a dog in bed.

I think I have the "right" to go out even now (we are supposed to stay at home but I don't think it's a law). I'm staying in because I don't want to put myself or others at risk, and I want to put this whole thing behind us as quickly and as much as we can.

The trouble with just "gentle guidelines" is that not enough people do them. There are enough people who will do the opposite that it loses effectiveness.

I like my rights and freedoms as much as the next person, but to me carrying on as normal right now would be like driving 200 mph on the highway just 'cause I should be able to go as fast as I want "and I'm a good driver so I can handle it."

 

[BruceK]

It`s very likely Covid19 doesn`t give a rat`s about "civil liberties and rights"(post 47 above). With more infections and deaths than any other country, and still counting, easing off seems a strange idea.
However, if you follow "anti vaxxer" theory, you could claim that curtailing "liberties and rights" is the cause of Covid 19 being so rampant. If that`s right, relaxing curtailment could kill the virus.
Think it`s worth a try? It might head in upward direction, what happens then, after around 2 weeks?

 

[sbu22]

That's the problem. The question that never gets asked is: "Mr. Governor/Mayor, what is the scientific and objective criteria that will allow you to lift the stay-in-place order?" The political class would not recognize science if they fell over it.

There is a leadership issue here, too. It is interesting to me that for all of the official talk of "shared sacrifice", all of the government guys are getting paid. Maybe these elected officials and their political appointees ahould return their pay to the treasury except for the amount they would be entitled to by unemployment. That would demonstrate "shared sacrifice" to the great unwashed who are sitting at home with no job while "top men" determine their fate.

 

[Bacchus]

That's the problem. The question that never gets asked is: "Mr. Governor/Mayor, what is the scientific and objective criteria that will allow you to lift the stay-in-place order?" The political class would not recognize science if they fell over it.
.

Have you read the criteria for Phase 1, 2, 3?
They seemed pretty objective and science based to me if you consider what the scientists have found as far as contagion period. The big problem is that those for just open everything now is they ignore the science or claim the scientists dont know anything.
Who is smarter?

 

[Bacchus]

Sick folks need to stay home and you can quarantine if you feel you need to. But forcing healthy folks to stay home seems familiar, oh Soviet Union. Americans don't mind staying home, but the lockdown is wrong. Its not science its called civil liberties and rights.

You just dont get it!.... that's the problem we can't tell who is sick (has CV and is contageous) without testing, and even that is not 100% conclusive but I think most would be OK if those that tested Neg or carried antibodies were able to "roam free". While others remained quaranteed.
What about that doesn't make sense or flys in the face of science?

 

[rslifkin]

You just dont get it!.... that's the problem we can't tell who is sick (has CV and is contageous) without testing, and even that is not 100% conclusive but I think most would be OK if those that tested Neg or carried antibodies were able to "roam free". While others remained quaranteed.
What about that doesn't make sense or flys in the face of science?

Exactly correct! The stay at home thing isn't intended to be long term, it's intended to buy some time to get together the resources, plans, knowledge, etc. to manage the problem better.

 

[Dixie Life]

Hey, if you intend to "FOLLOW" the letter of the law, stopping questioning your elected officials wisdom and FOLLOW.

 

[moparharn]

Sick folks need to stay home and you can quarantine if you feel you need to. But forcing healthy folks to stay home seems familiar, oh Soviet Union. Americans don't mind staying home, but the lockdown is wrong. Its not science its called civil liberties and rights.

Exactly! Thank you Gabby for that authentic bit of frontier gibberish. Your form of Darwinism is a little too heartless and random for me. Surely your right to absolute freedom of movement during a global pandemic "Trumps" the rights of your innocent victims to not die suffocating amongst strangers.

Soviet Union!? You mean where the absolute loyalty to the communist ideal takes precedent over everything else including human life? Sound familiar?
Your absolute loyalty to yourself and your freedom of movement takes precedent over everything else including human life. Who is the commie now?

One more time. ASYMPTOMATIC SPREAD.

Would your stance be different if the virus targeted morons instead of people with comorbidity?

 

[psneeld]

I may have been the or one of the first to suggest a sub forum for this topic knowing what would eventually happen.

I think this topic has been more devisive than any.

Not sure there is much use anymore as it seems more damage to members is happening than ever.

People I had doubts about before more than cemented their positions. Not saying they are wrong, just not the way I roll. Can only imagine it's happening to many.

 

[moparharn]

Two influencing factors.

I actually live in Michigan. How many people who posted live in the state?

My children work in Detroit hospitals. How many people who posted have their children's lives at stake on the front line? In Michigan.

Please allow me to apologize for my lack of control. Unusual times these are. I will stop posting on the covid forum as it is likely to change nothing.

 

[psneeld]

As the experts have said......the virus doesn't discriminate...not even by state. Your responses are no more appropriate or less than anyone else's.

You and others have forgotten that.

OUT........

 

[Haloo]

I may have been the or one of the first to suggest a sub forum for this topic knowing what would eventually happen.

I think this topic has been more devisive than any.

Not sure there is much use anymore as it seems more damage to members is happening than ever.

People I had doubts about before more than cemented their positions. Not saying they are wrong, just not the way I roll. Can only imagine it's happening to many.

A lot of folks in this discussion have earned my respect. I’m impressed with how many will sacrifice for the welfare of others. When the going gets tough, I know who I’d want in my foxhole.

 

[BrianSmith]

Greetings,
Mr. kt. How about: "I understand the severity of the situation and I will do all I can to stop the spread of disease?"

Yes. This. Absolutely. Michigan had 633 new cases yesterday. New *reported* cases. Probably more like 800 - 900 actual, because of the percentage of people who are asymptomatic. Not exactly the time to be worrying about whether or not you're allowed to go for a pleasure cruise.