Isn't boating an essential activity?

[jhance]

Yes serious question. OK to go for a drive so why not go for a boat ride? Essential travel to visit a national park, which are open, for excercise. Anchoring out for a few hours. Washington State. I see little difference than going in a car. If car breaks down you are calling for a tow just like on a boat.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. jh. The virus does not move. People move AND spread the virus. India is on a 21 day total lock down. 1.3 BILLION people with a few exceptions confined to their houses. No walks, no drives, no exercise.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...under-virus-lockdown/articleshow/74807030.cms
How is anyone else any different?

 

[jhance]

OK, if we get to that point, then no driving or boating to any location. I am just making the point that if you can drive to a national park, or get in your car to go for a drive, you are probably not breaking any lockdown orders by getting in your boat to do the same thing. A vehicle is a vehicle. I just see a lot of "can't go boating" right now so wanted to see what you all thought driving to point X for exercise versus boating to point X for exercise. Seems the same to me and allowed under lockdown orders as I read them. Or just getting in your boat and cruising around for a few hours, just like driving around for a few hours. Can't let the boat sit idle for months on end, right?

Greetings,
Mr. jh. The virus does not move. People move AND spread the virus. India is on a 21 day total lock down. 1.3 BILLION people with a few exceptions confined to their houses. No walks, no drives, no exercise.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...under-virus-lockdown/articleshow/74807030.cms
How is anyone else any different?

 

[READY]

Not ok to go for a drive in a car

Not that I am happy with the new normal but I would not try to argue that either going for a drive or going for a boat recreational cruise are essential. It is ok to go on a drive to get food or visit a doctor or similar essential activities. Few folks in our area depend upon their boats as transport to get food (not even fishing is essential for most). It is a slippery slope and if a pleasure cruise were to be classified as essential it would be hard to classify most any other activities as non-essential. I wish govt could just depend upon everyone to use common sense and not have to put the restrictions in place but alas that has been shown to be ineffective. You have to put very restrictive limits in place so the idiots who think this is just a flu will comply.
I am willing to give up a few guilty pleasures for 4-6 weeks and see if we can get on the downslope of the curve. I think we already extended this by not encouraging folks to wear face coverings and by some states dragging their feet on the shelter in place regs. This is one time where perhaps being a bit over cautious might be warranted. We need to get our economy back up asap but that cannot happen until we get past the apex and can see a path to zero or very low new infections and have some type of effective tests and treatments. Otherwise we overwhelm our healthcare system and risk many more weeks or months of restrictions and MANY unnecessary and avoidable deaths.

 

[READY]

For California:
What is considered 'essential travel?'
Travel related to essential activities
Travel to care for elderly, children, minors, those with disabilities or other "vulnerable" people
Travel to schools or universities to receive meals
Travel to home residence from an outside area
Travel required by law or court order

 

[jhance]

We are specifically being told going for a drive is allowed and national parks are open and exercise is allowed. I don't see how going to a national park by car is different than by boat.

 

[READY]

Jhance I guess this is the challenge with various state and local rules. Going out for a Sunday drive is not permitted in CA.

 

[Insequent]

OK, if we get to that point, then no driving or boating to any location.

You are already well past that point, unfortunately. Some Parks etc are just slow/late in being closed.

Not that I am happy with the new normal but I would not try to argue that either going for a drive or going for a boat recreational cruise are essential. It is ok to go on a drive to get food or visit a doctor or similar essential activities. Few folks in our area depend upon their boats as transport to get food (not even fishing is essential for most). It is a slippery slope and if a pleasure cruise were to be classified as essential it would be hard to classify most any other activities as non-essential. I wish govt could just depend upon everyone to use common sense and not have to put the restrictions in place but alas that has been shown to be ineffective. You have to put very restrictive limits in place so the idiots who think this is just a flu will comply.
I am willing to give up a few guilty pleasures for 4-6 weeks and see if we can get on the downslope of the curve. I think we already extended this by not encouraging folks to wear face coverings and by some states dragging their feet on the shelter in place regs. This is one time where perhaps being a bit over cautious might be warranted. We need to get our economy back up asap but that cannot happen until we get past the apex and can see a path to zero or very low new infections and have some type of effective tests and treatments. Otherwise we overwhelm our healthcare system and risk many more weeks or months of restrictions and MANY unnecessary and avoidable deaths.

You nailed it. And sadly, the next few weeks at least will bring to your country an enormous amount of distress.

Here in Australia the authorities are cautiously saying that indications are that we are past the peak of new cases. Although not for deaths, as yet. But even so, they are telling us to prepare for 6 months with only a little easing of the rules. China appears to be doing the same. With any easing there needs to be a capacity to test & isolate/quarantine quickly, to lockdown any emerging clusters before too many people have travelled and dispersed the virus for new outbreaks.

 

[MurrayM]

I think it boils down to population density.

We live in a small town of 8,500 at the end of a side road. The next town is 52 Kilometres (32 miles) away on the main highway with nothing between us but the airport. Most of the boats in our small marina are owned by people who live in cities inland.

The marina store is shut down and the maintenance staff has been laid off. If we need to fuel up, there is one person on site who can open up for us if we phone ahead first.

We're going for a day romp tomorrow.

 

[Insequent]

Yes, in this situation isolated and small marina work in your favour.

Here, one family going to a beach or park is no problem either. But 500 or more families going to the same beach or park creates a big problem.

Later in the year will we see a permit system applied? If you want to go to one of those places you have to get prior permission, with entry numbers controlled & limited according to site capacity. I could see that being workable, and not all that complicated to setup these days.

 

[BruceK]

I`d like to see something authoritative in Australia. Mainly because we want to use a "new" boat. I`ll try this week, more in hope than expectation. It involves leaving home, and that`s what they want us NOT to do.

 

[CaptTom]

Going for a drive in your car is fine... until you break down, or get in an accident, or thousands of others get the same idea.

Likewise, nothing wrong with walking on the beach or in a park... until everyone tries to do so at the same time. Where I live, people from the city think they can "get away from" the virus by coming here. In droves. It's not only the crowding on the beaches and in the parks, but the extra infrastructure that's needed to support that. Gas stations, stores, police, emergency services, public restrooms, etc. Each of these, and adding staff to enforce all the distancing rules, causes more people to interact.

So even though in theory recreational boating is a great way to practice social distancing, it can be argued that it goes against the public good.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. jh. "...probably not breaking any lockdown orders..." No, probably not but as mentioned different jurisdictions have different and some no "rules" and therein lies the problem IMO. The intent of these lockdown orders is to minimize and eliminate interpersonal contact. Regardless of whether or not you break down or may not see anyone else, how can that be guaranteed?



So, if some area has no or very lax rules, does this mean common sense is to be ignored?


We needed food supplies yesterday. Quite a few businesses are closed but the essentials are open. Went to the local grocery store. I was the only one wearing a mask, eye protection and plastic gloves. I got a lot of weird looks from others who had NO PPE but, screw-em. Don't expect to leave the house for another 2 weeks+++.

 

[GFC]

RTF, you are doing things the smart way and that way that it needs to be done to protect yourself and your family.

GOOD ON YA!

 

[BruceK]

Here`s one report I found dealing with recreational boating in various States in Australia. It is from a "sailing" forum but quite comprehensive and sadly not encouraging of boating activity. Elsewhere, fishing seems ok if you go home as soon as you have the required catch. Odd, I thought fishing was not actually about catching fish.
Can I go boating? State-by-state rules and regulations, with specific advice for live-aboards - MySailing.com.au

 

[Insequent]

They tend to think of and deal with trailer boats. Larger boats in marinas or in canals at houses are seldom addressed, but its basically the same message. Lets hope that rules don't tighten after Easter, a time of year here when there are boats on the water everywhere. We won't go out - the right thing is to stay at home. But later in the month, or next, I'd like to be able to anchor out, solo, for a week or two. That's assuming cases/deaths etc are reducing.

 

[Andy G]

They tend to think of and deal with trailer boats. Larger boats in marinas or in canals at houses are seldom addressed, but its basically the same message. Lets hope that rules don't tighten after Easter, a time of year here when there are boats on the water everywhere. We won't go out - the right thing is to stay at home. But later in the month, or next, I'd like to be able to anchor out, solo, for a week or two. That's assuming cases/deaths etc are reducing.

I agree with your position, because I too would like to get away from the 'Madding Crowd' for a while as well. But I can't help feeling Mr RT Firefly has snuck into my conscience with an unanswerable argument. Thank you very much Mr RT!

 

[Bacchus]

I agree with your position, because I too would like to get away from the 'Madding Crowd' for a while as well. But I can't help feeling Mr RT Firefly has snuck into my conscience with an unanswerable argument. Thank you very much Mr RT!

Agree completely!
Many of us identify "boat" with a 40-60 ft completely self contained and self sufficient vessel. Not practical to differentiate size or accommodations vs NONE ALLOWED. Even the "livable" boats eventually need water, fuel, pump out, etc that create cross contamination potential.
If marinas have any security just entering requires keypad, locks, card readers, etc for entry.
Many can cite specific situations that are not high risk but how would you communicate and enforce a mandate where some can and some cant???
Many folks can't differentiate Essential from Non-Essential.

 

[psneeld]

Like all laws and rules...some get it, some dont.

Often we suffer from the lowest common denominator.

Like all of NY state having to live with the mentality that governs NYC.

2 different worlds in 1 governed body,

 

[MurrayM]

More on population density.

We live in duplex, so no apartment building doors or elevators to deal with, and it's about a 10 minute drive to the marina. There were about 10 vehicles in the area of the parking lot where people park before going to their boats and didn't meet anyone in the parking lot coming or going. We didn't meet anyone on the main float which is wider than 6' or at the ramp to shore. We didn't meet anyone on the narrower float leading to our slip. Some people did walk past as we tied up the boat, but they were about 20' from us. We got within 100' of two boats as we left and entered the marina, but never got within a mile of the five or so boats we saw out on the water all day.

All in all, a great day for our mental health

 

[Rufus]

You decide....

We live in the Fort Worth area. The boat is in a winter storage building in Wisconsin. Beginning April 15 it can be launched (or left in the building indefinitely). Our normal summer slip is in Michigan on the other side of Lake Michigan. We've been summer live aboards in Michigan for fifteen years. If we do it again this year, we have no problem with self quarantine for as long as required when we get there. Cruising is not in the cards.

My spouse and I can make the drive from Texas to Wisconsin in 20 hours without a stop other than for gas and a catnap in the car. My wife's brother will put us up in their home in Wisconsin for the two days it will take to get the boat in the water. We will self isolate per Wisconsin guidelines. We will bring boat provisions for two weeks with us from Texas so that we do not have to venture out other than to launch the boat. There is not an open long term slip for the boat at the Wisconsin storage facility, so if the boat is launched, it must leave within two days. Assuming we depart from Wisconsin I will make the non-stop 14 hour transit to Michigan with the boat. My spouse will do the same with the car. The harbor master in Michigan is expecting us and understands that we will have been in constant self isolation since March 9. We will follow Michigan executive orders when we arrive at the slip.

Is this plan in the spirit of current government guidelines? Is this recreational boating?

 

[Group9]

Half the people I know who fish on their boats, do it alone or with one other person, most of the time. We boast the same way. Most of the time, it's just me and my wife, and we're together all the time anyway.

I don't see what that hurts, in the overall virus scheme of things.

 

[AKDoug]

Subsistence activities are included in permissible travel here. Fishing, hunting, gathering is all included in subsistence... All good reasons to be out of doors and usually done with significant social distancing.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. R. "Is this plan in the spirit of current government guidelines?" The gist of most government guidelines is stay at home with some exceptions. I very, very much doubt the majority of those declaring that food gathering is the real reason they are out in their boats fishing are being truthful. I know of no grocery stores that have been closed.



You are no doubt familiar with the winter weather in the northern states. Do you still drive 60 MPH during a blizzard? After all, the speed limit IS 60 and the government only suggests you slow down.

 

[AKDoug]

I suspect that the subsistence gathering is a bow to the rural communities and native Alaskan cultures, but State law prohibits discrimination based on ethnicity. At this point in time there is nothing out there where I dwell to gather anyway... Hoping it all blows past by mid May! That's when most of the fish start to show up, and the weather begins to co-operate.

For now, projects in the basement!

 

[psneeld]

I suspect that the subsistence gathering is a bow to the rural communities and native Alaskan cultures, but State law prohibits discrimination based on ethnicity. At this point in time there is nothing out there where I dwell to gather anyway... Hoping it all blows past by mid May! That's when most of the fish start to show up, and the weather begins to co-operate.

For now, projects in the basement!

Once the Sockeye and Kings start... try and keep Alaskans off the rivers...

 

[Rufus]

RT,

Well, it's more in the spirit of State and Federal guidelines than using subsistance fishing as an excuse to boat. And it's far more in the spirit of guidelines than cruiser/loopers who propose to use anchoring out as an excuse to continue the vagabond lifestyle....while still dropping in on otherwise locked down marinas for fuel and supplies. I'm saying my spouse and I can truly stay in continuous lock down status from departure from Texas to the slip in Michigan, where we will not venture off the boat for an additional two weeks. (Masks and gloves at fuel stops). This assumes no vehicular accidents along the way....none so far over the 15 years we've been doing this.

I don't drive in blizzards, but I do drive 60-70 in snow. Who doesn't...

 

[catalinajack]

In Maryland liquor stores are open. Essential? I think not.

Agree completely!
Many of us identify "boat" with a 40-60 ft completely self contained and self sufficient vessel. Not practical to differentiate size or accommodations vs NONE ALLOWED. Even the "livable" boats eventually need water, fuel, pump out, etc that create cross contamination potential.
If marinas have any security just entering requires keypad, locks, card readers, etc for entry.
Many can cite specific situations that are not high risk but how would you communicate and enforce a mandate where some can and some cant???
Many folks can't differentiate Essential from Non-Essential.

 

[Insequent]

You decide....

We live in the Fort Worth area. The boat is in a winter storage building in Wisconsin. Beginning April 15 it can be launched (or left in the building indefinitely). Our normal summer slip is in Michigan on the other side of Lake Michigan. We've been summer live aboards in Michigan for fifteen years. If we do it again this year, we have no problem with self quarantine for as long as required when we get there. Cruising is not in the cards.

My spouse and I can make the drive from Texas to Wisconsin in 20 hours without a stop other than for gas and a catnap in the car. My wife's brother will put us up in their home in Wisconsin for the two days it will take to get the boat in the water. We will self isolate per Wisconsin guidelines. We will bring boat provisions for two weeks with us from Texas so that we do not have to venture out other than to launch the boat. There is not an open long term slip for the boat at the Wisconsin storage facility, so if the boat is launched, it must leave within two days. Assuming we depart from Wisconsin I will make the non-stop 14 hour transit to Michigan with the boat. My spouse will do the same with the car. The harbor master in Michigan is expecting us and understands that we will have been in constant self isolation since March 9. We will follow Michigan executive orders when we arrive at the slip.

Is this plan in the spirit of current government guidelines? Is this recreational boating?

To me it looks reasonable, provided the various State rules are not broken.

Where I am we cannot cross State borders by car or boat, unless returning home in which case it can be done but strict 14 day home isolation is mandatory, checked and if broken fines are imposed. Within State here your concept could be done, and we have 1500 mile coast in Qld, so a similar long trip. But, unless the locals at the destination knew us (15 years of summers should cover that) then we would be treated as lepers. Regional towns here are getting very antsy about visitors, even 'grey nomads' who they normally greet with open arms. And police stops and 'please explain' en route in the car could occur. And that's today. Tomorrow or next week it could be completely no-go.

 

[Woodland Hills]

In Maryland liquor stores are open. Essential? I think not.

There are thousands of functioning alcoholics in our country who will begin to suffer serious withdrawal symptoms if cut off from their drug. We are not talking about skid row bums, but your neighbors and people who live and work in your town as shopkeepers, doctor, civil administrators, business owners, etc. Alcohol is a legal drug and has been for nearly 100 years , the addictive properties of which are very well known. Would you also suggest we ban the sale of all tobacco products as well? They too are fully legal and highly addictive.

It sounds like you are passing a moral judgement upon what is the occasional outcome from the long term use of a very popular legal product.