Definition of a "case" ???

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If you looked at the site linked and spent effort to process your concern would be addressed. I’m not interested in doing your thinking for you so didn’t respond to post #15. Post here between other activities. Going through a step by step would be time consuming and not productive in my view.
BH image you had a patient who didn’t follow the science and did what he could to be non compliant. With Covid the nation is the patient so yes it’s his job to follow the science and encourage the entire population of the country to do the same and be compliant. Yes the science was and is evolving. Advice and suggested action changes as knowledge grows or situation changes. That’s what scientists and physicians do. Try the to learn so they can do the best possible job with the information at hand and gain more knowledge. But the basics of public health control measures to control a pandemic or epidemic have been known for quite some time and other than US been followed by all other countries except a few. Those tend to be run by populists, or authoritarian governments or restricted in ability to follow guidelines due to social issues like Peru.
 
Hippocampus said:
But the basics of public health control measures to control a pandemic or epidemic have been known for quite some time and other than US been followed by all other countries except a few.
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I think that's baloney and grasping, but I am willing to be proven wrong by data you provide for every other country in the world.

I see from These Graphs that there are A LOT of countries that are struggling right along with the US in red. Some are likely MUCH worse if total population and urban density were considered.

I would also like a comparison of what each's economy, suicides, drug use, and other metrics look like after all that shutting down. An perfect score for "getting COVID response right" may have drastic impacts in other areas which are not part of any of those "ratings" (forest for the trees again).

"An estimated 71 million people are expected to be pushed back into extreme poverty this year – the first increase in global poverty since 1998." (
​
https://www.undispatch.com/how-countries-responded-to-covid-19/)
 
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Maybe I'll try this as my sig:

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
 
My pet peeves is the phrase "the middle of a pandemic".

I think we need to save that one for later when, at some point, we can determine the middle.

But I suppose like a stopped clock is right twice a day. The phrase will be valid once.
 
Northern Spy said:
My pet peeves is the phrase "the middle of a pandemic".

I think we need to save that one for later when, at some point, we can determine the middle.

But I suppose like a stopped clock is right twice a day. The phrase will be valid once.
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LOL! Yep.

One of my favorites:

 
"Advice and suggested action changes as knowledge grows or situation changes. That’s what scientists and physicians do. Try the to learn so they can do the best possible job with the information at hand and gain more knowledge.''

NOT when there is political gain is involved, isn't Global Warming "settled science" according to the folks that promote that story?

Just as the Ozone hole , peak oil and many other terrors were created for political gain , all promoted by "science".
 
FF Advice and suggested action changes as knowledge grows or situation changes. That’s what scientists and physicians do. Try the to learn so they can do the best possible job with the information at hand and gain more knowledge.''is exactly what happened in the examples you mentioned.
Strongly advise you read Thomas Kuhn’s discussions on paradigm shifts in science. Although the seminal book is old (1962) what he notes has played out in all scientific paradigm shifts going back to Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Darwin, string or chaos theory. Google “the Structure of Scientific Revolutions” or just his name. You seem an intelligent individual so given it’s free of political or other bias might be an eye opener for you.
 
Greetings,
Mr. FF. You forgot to mention the suppression of BSE (mad cow) information by the US government so as to not harm the US beef industry. Unconfirmed reports are that people developed CJD from eating contaminated, untested beef. Happened about 20 years ago, I think.


Edit: Regardless of the integrity of the scientific community, it's NOT uncommon for governments AND corporations to either ignore, suppress or misuse findings for their own benefits.
 
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#43 is most misleading. Since Gajdusek’s original description of what’s now called “classic cruetzfield Jacob disease “ the CDC has been entirely open and transparent as regards this issue. Classic transmission including the original index cases in Papau New Guinea was and is via human to human tissue transmission. I had a close friend and neurosurgeon partner die of CJD. Investigation discovered he operated on an individual who received the prion via a corneal transplant and he is presumed to have received it doing an AVM on her. There is also a even rarer form of genetic CJD.
Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow)is a different disease as is wasting disease in elk and deer. All are prion diseases and share the same progressive misfolding of protein causing symptoms and death. Since 2007 the CDC here as required the reporting of all cases of CJD, vCJD and mad cow. English public health agencies have done the same and started before us as initial recognized cases where there. USDA has also required reporting as has all federal and state fish and game agencies. All reports of all cases of any form of prion disease is in the public record. Actions including destruction of herds of beef, curtailing hunting seasons, changes in harvesting of game animals and public education as well as reporting criteria promptly curtailed the spread of all the various prion diseases. Handling of all human to human tissue and organ transplant material has also changed in response.
Prompt, open, scientifically evidence based measures by our and international public health services has lead to excellent control of this terrible disease. Handling of the prion threat is a great success story and possible due to the absence of politicalization of the illness and understanding the economic hit would be much less with a massive initial response rather than suppression of information or sub maximal response due to economic factors.
Ask any farm that grows beef. Ask when they were informed about the bovine form of this illness. Ask what they were and are obligated to do. Ask if they were ever silenced or any information suppressed. Please show me any factual information to support your statement.
 
Greetings,
Mr. H. "Please show me any factual information to support your statement."


From this article in Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy


1971: " Indeed, US meat producer Creekstone Farms was forcibly prevented from conducting BSE testing by the USDA, which under an obscure 1913 law had the authority to restrict sales of BSE testing kits, allegedly to protect other producers from being forced to conduct the same tests to stay competitive.[40]"
 
This is misleading in that general practice for any disease human or animal is to not require testing unless a risk is appreciated. Don’t know the details referenced but can conjecture that this was a marketing and/or business ploy. If a major producer raised the cost per unit sold they could force their competitors out of business or gain market share by saying their products was tested and proven disease free. If it was determined there was no risk to begin with seems appropriate to prevent access.
Will apologize. Did post #44 from memory and have my dates wrong. Public health measures predate 2007. Would need to o do a literature search to get exact date and of busy now. It doesn’t change gist of the post. Think risk of disease is ~1/1,000,000 and that includes the 15% where it’s genetic.
 
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Greetings,
Mr. H. Straw man argument. NOT talking about BSE or CJD. ONLY using this as an example of government manipulation and/or suppression of science for an agenda. In the BSE case, to "save" the reputation of the US beef industry.


I do NOT doubt your expertise in medical matters but MY post supports Mr. FF's assertion that the integrity of science is sometimes secondary "...when there is political gain (or profit) is involved..." My insert.


A number of years back, in Canada, the then Prime Minister, Harper, put a gag order on government scientists. They were NOT allowed to comment to the press or public about any of their work. Some of their findings, particularly in climate research, ran afoul of Harper's climate change policies. He shut a number of labs down as a result. No findings or discoveries=no problems.
Policy based science as opposed to science based policy.
 
RTF, I see your point.
on the west coast we are experiencing a drop in returning salmon, in general, all species. There is a gag order on DFO scientist as the problem is fish farms located along salmon migratory routes. September 30th came and went without the deadline promised by current feds to dismantle/relocate said problem.
Fish Farm Parasites that DFO Ignores
 
As they say”follow the moneyl”. Don’t doubt the thrust of the above posts. But like water flowing down hill you can dam it, redirect it but eventually it will reach the ocean. Currently reading medieval history. Fascinating to see how the church and powers that be at the time tried to suppress those baby steps toward rational thinking about our world. Believe the major disruption in our current society is the erosion of trust. Doesn’t matter where you look. Law, medicine, science, government, the press, etc. People feel adrift so fall back on a belief system. Look at statistics like Disraeli “lies, lies and statistics “.
 
" Believe the major disruption in our current society is the erosion of trust. Doesn’t matter where you look. Law, medicine, science, government, the press, etc. People feel adrift so fall back on a belief system. Look at statistics like Disraeli “lies, lies and statistics “."

Trust in the pollsters?

If a MD made that many errors even Hart Island couldn't handle that many coffins..

Hart Island is the NYC potters field.
 
FF said:
Trust in the pollsters?

If a MD made that many errors even Hart Island couldn't handle that many coffins..

Hart Island is the NYC potters field.
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The irony being, of course, that the pollsters trusted the individuals that they polled.
 
"pollsters trusted the individuals that they polled.


I believe they Selected the folks they polled , and got the numbers wrong, yet again.
 
Soo-Valley said:
RTF, I see your point.
on the west coast we are experiencing a drop in returning salmon, in general, all species. There is a gag order on DFO scientist as the problem is fish farms located along salmon migratory routes. September 30th came and went without the deadline promised by current feds to dismantle/relocate said problem.
Fish Farm Parasites that DFO Ignores
Click to expand...

That sounds like a double win, ….for the fish farmers. :facepalm:
 
Greetings,
Mr. cb. As Mr. H mentioned in post #49..."follow the moneyl”. It's too bad the integrity of a medical professional or a scientist can be compromised by $$ but...
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. cb. As Mr. H mentioned in post #49..."follow the moneyl”. It's too bad the integrity of a medical professional or a scientist can be compromised by $$ but...
Click to expand...

Agree, Mr. RT:

It's too bad the integrity of [STRIKE]a medical professional or a scientist[/STRIKE] human beings can be compromised by $$ but...
 
I don't know about other areas, but here, a new "case" is defined as a positive test result, which is NOT related to the number of persons sick with Covid. In reality, the number of people sick with it has fallen to the point where it is statistically insignificant.

Unfortunately, the tests being used here have a government-confirmed 50% false-positive rate which, when combined with the gross oversampling (45 sample scans, when the test manufacturer states that at 30 scans the number of false positives is unacceptably high, and higher scan rates will return positive Covid results from ANY Corona-type viral particles, including the common cold, flu, etc.) means that, according to experts, the actual false positive rate is between 90% and 100%.

So, as the number of tests performed increases, the number of "positives" increases....while the number of patients who actually have the disease continues to diminish.
 
What does this have to do with trawlers or for that matter boating. You should all take this to a more appropriate forum.
 
cbouch said:
What does this have to do with trawlers or for that matter boating. You should all take this to a more appropriate forum.
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You must must have not noticed you entered the bilge

Trawler Forum > Trawler Forum > Harbor Chat > Covid-19
Reload this Page Definition of a "case" ???
 
Regardless of the hype.
Number of people dying is relevant and is dramatically increasing.
Number of people who either remain dysfunctional after being infected (long haulers, folks with persistently compromised pulmonary or cardiac or neurologic function) is increasing.

Any group of people has a few who are not ethical. But the rest are honest. The course of history is the science advances and medical care improves. My analogy that truth is like water returning to the sea holds in spite of the the bad apples. Most of us hold man made climate change theory, the theory of evolution is good science.. Most realize the untruth of flat landers or geocentricity although there still adherents defying the course of science.
 
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