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Old 10-15-2020, 11:20 AM   #21
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Well said Ksanders and Koliver!

San Juan County offers an interesting case study. There have been very few cases (33) in the islands, no deaths, no documented or known community spread, and lots of tourism throughout the summer. From what I've seen, masking and social distancing are taken very seriously. Although numbers have been good so far, people aren't letting their guard down.

As I understand it, all the known cases in San Juan County have come from residents staying with family/friends when traveling or having family/friends stay with them while visiting the islands.

Although tourism started off slow this year and accommodations were limited to 50% capacity throughout the summer, many business owners I've spoken with said they've been busier than ever.

My brother lives in Jackson Hole, WY, where precautions are viewed much more skeptically. Unsurprisingly, cases are skyrocketing...226 cases per 100,000 people in the last week, worse than almost any county in Washington State.

I'm hopeful (but not optimistic) that Americans can put politics aside and take the simple steps needed to help reduce the spread and take care of one another. It would be really nice if we could get this under control and travel to Canada again (and stop burying 1,000 people a day).
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Old 10-15-2020, 11:45 AM   #22
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koliver wrote;

“ALL pay attention to the safety of ourselves and others. We wear masks, we sanitize our hands when entering a store, if possible, we maintain 2m distance where possible. Our grocery store sanitizes all grocery carts and other obvious places between uses, we use touch payment rather than handling credit card readers, we pack our own re-usable grocery bags.“..........YES!

Would very much like to see that in the US.
This is the exact same thing I see in the few places I have been in Canada since March. Richmond, Victoria, Nanaimo, Calgary, and Edmonton. It appears to be the standard in Western Canada.

We also have people at the front doors allowing only a certain capacity in the store as well. Recommended or mandatory supplied hand sanitizer. Recommended or mandatory masking. Sometimes provided gloves. All carts, baskets and grocery conveyors are wiped down in between purchases. Employees directing people to lines at the till. Plexiglass in between all cashier's and patrons. Usually no cash, only tap or bagged and sanitized card reader. Special hours for Seniors and health compromised. 2m (6 ft.) markers and one way flow paths in every store.

It is in the best interests of stores to provide a healthy environment for shoppers.

Is this not the norm in the States?

If not, no wonder you are F'd.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:03 PM   #23
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This is the exact same thing I see in the few places I have been in Canada since March. Richmond, Victoria, Nanaimo, Calgary, and Edmonton. It appears to be the standard in Western Canada.

We also have people at the front doors allowing only a certain capacity in the store as well. Recommended or mandatory supplied hand sanitizer. Recommended or mandatory masking. Sometimes provided gloves. All carts, baskets and grocery conveyors are wiped down in between purchases. Employees directing people to lines at the till. Plexiglass in between all cashier's and patrons. Usually no cash, only tap or bagged and sanitized card reader. Special hours for Seniors and health compromised. 2m (6 ft.) markers and one way flow paths in every store.

It is in the best interests of stores to provide a healthy environment for shoppers.

Is this not the norm in the States?

If not, no wonder you are F'd.
Depends on where you are. What you describe is pretty much what we've experienced in the San Juan Islands. Elsewhere in Western Washington all the big stores have signs, markings on the ground, hand sanitizer, masks, etc., but some communities are more compliant than others and some stores are stricter than others. Generally it's pretty good. North Harbor Diesel in Anacortes is the only business I've been in that completely blew off precautions. Not a mask to be seen on any employees working in the office/parts department.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:07 PM   #24
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A truer comparison would be California vs Canada about the same population. I have no idea how the covid19 between the two would compare. I’m not into judging covid19 mine vs yours.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:24 PM   #25
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We shop at Publix grocery store. Cart are sanitized. Everyone wears a mask.
We dont go to parties nor go see our friends or relatives.
Could we do better, for sure but, what we do is more than reasonable.
We go to doctors and dentists and grocery shopping and the occasional boat parts store.

That's about the extent of our social life.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:34 PM   #26
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A truer comparison would be California vs Canada about the same population. I have no idea how the covid19 between the two would compare. I’m not into judging covid19 mine vs yours.
Not really.

Canada is a heterogeneous population; as is the United States.

Comparing BC to Washington, Alberta to Montana, and Toronto to NYC may be valid. But Canada has nearly the same cultural variation as any geographically large nation does.
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Old 10-15-2020, 01:37 PM   #27
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I don’t see how Canada will be willing to open the border for many years. The virus infection rate in The United States shows no signs off lessening and many have said they will not take the vaccine when available. A timeline might be if and when the virus dies naturally. Nations may have to stay closed for years, a brave no world.
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Old 10-15-2020, 02:09 PM   #28
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I don’t see how Canada will be willing to open the border for many years. The virus infection rate in The United States shows no signs off lessening and many have said they will not take the vaccine when available. A timeline might be if and when the virus dies naturally. Nations may have to stay closed for years, a brave no world.
"Happy Talk" by some politician aside, it's going to be quite some time before we have a widespread use of a vaccine. So, not planning on any trips to Canada next year. Do miss spending time with our Canadian friends. Really hope I'm wrong about this.
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Old 10-15-2020, 02:11 PM   #29
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Gotta ask, are Canadian citizen forbidden from entering the US?
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Old 10-15-2020, 02:39 PM   #30
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Border opening aside, the current STAT numbers for Canada are horrible. The two week average change in deaths for all of Canada is +258.7% as of today's date. No other developed country or US State is currently even close to this %. What is going on up North?

Ken Sanders is in a very good place, Alaska. STAT numbers for AK for average two week change in deaths -85.7%.

BTW, we are seeing very good protocols and cart cleaning where we are.

Oh oh, I bet I'm in big trouble for tossing this up.
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Old 10-15-2020, 02:40 PM   #31
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A truer comparison would be California vs Canada about the same population. I have no idea how the covid19 between the two would compare. I’m not into judging covid19 mine vs yours.
Population California..............39,500,000
Reported Covid-19 cases............856,559

Population Canada..................37,800,000
Reported Covid-19 cases............191,310

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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Old 10-15-2020, 03:12 PM   #32
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Border opening aside, the current STAT numbers for Canada are horrible. The two week average change in deaths for all of Canada is +258.7% as of today's date. No other developed country or US State is currently even close to this %. What is going on up North?

Ken Sanders is in a very good place, Alaska. STAT numbers for AK for average two week change in deaths -85.7%.

BTW, we are seeing very good protocols and cart cleaning where we are.

Oh oh, I bet I'm in big trouble for tossing this up.
There is a reason most sources compare rates per 100,000 instead of percentages.

Furthermore, changes in sample size have a dramatic impact on the variability of the measure even if we assume that the underlying process is the same.

The US is a magnitude larger than Canada population wise. And magnitudes higher on infected population. The variability of tested positive numbers between Provinces is magnitudes as well. Percentage changes don't accurately reflect trends unless on a moving average.

I notice that we are quick to blame on the upside of the infection curve and slow to praise on the downside. Likewise, a few great days don't reflect the genius of leadership and a few poor days don't mean the populace is acting poorly

Remember when this effort was to "flatten the curve"?

Apparently we are going to be introspective upon any sinusoidal wiggles too.
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Old 10-15-2020, 03:17 PM   #33
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Inflating and deflating is at the whim of the govts.
Witness: body count during the Vietnam war and I suspect even now.
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Old 10-15-2020, 03:20 PM   #34
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so why is Mexico so much different? We are heading south to visit Crusty. No worries crossing the boarder according to him.
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Old 10-15-2020, 03:32 PM   #35
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There is a reason most sources compare rates per 100,000 instead of percentages.

Furthermore, changes in sample size have a dramatic impact on the variability of the measure even if we assume that the underlying process is the same.

The US is a magnitude larger than Canada population wise. And magnitudes higher on infected population. The variability of tested positive numbers between Provinces is magnitudes as well. Percentage changes don't accurately reflect trends unless on a moving average.

I notice that we are quick to blame on the upside of the infection curve and slow to praise on the downside. Likewise, a few great days don't reflect the genius of leadership and a few poor days don't mean the populace is acting poorly

Remember when this effort was to "flatten the curve"?

Apparently we are going to be introspective upon any sinusoidal wiggles too.
Yes, I understand what you are saying.

My post was about Canadian trending deaths, which currently has many knickers in a twist in QC. Hopefully the Canadian death trend, whether expressed as a number, % or graphically will quickly show improvement. STAT is a pretty decent resource (Johns Hopkins, WHO and UK data compilations) and one of a small data group the medical professionals I deal with use as a go to site for extremely detailed geographical comparatives.
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Old 10-15-2020, 03:38 PM   #36
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so why is Mexico so much different? We are heading south to visit Crusty. No worries crossing the boarder according to him.
Sonora is not doing very well regarding new Covid19 cases and related deaths. Stay out of the bars
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Old 10-15-2020, 03:44 PM   #37
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Yes, I understand what you are saying.

My post was about Canadian trending deaths, which currently has many knickers in a twist in QC. Hopefully the Canadian death trend, whether expressed as a number, % or graphically will quickly show improvement. STAT is a pretty decent resource (Johns Hopkins, WHO and UK data compilations) and one of a small data group the medical professionals I deal with use as a go to site for extremely detailed geographical comparatives.
As you know, Canada is very provincial. Kind of like how some states are more "united" than others.

I think Quebec has solidified their "nation within a nation" status with their response to COVID to Canadians in other provinces.

Phenomenal rate of over 1000 per 100K.
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Old 10-15-2020, 04:06 PM   #38
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[QUOTE

Ken Sanders is in a very good place, Alaska. STAT numbers for AK for average two week change in deaths -85.7%.

Statistics, got to love it, being partially undead !
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Old 10-15-2020, 04:23 PM   #39
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so why is Mexico so much different? We are heading south to visit Crusty. No worries crossing the boarder according to him.
How about getting back into the US?
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Old 10-15-2020, 06:48 PM   #40
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Border opening aside, the current STAT numbers for Canada are horrible. The two week average change in deaths for all of Canada is +258.7% as of today's date. No other developed country or US State is currently even close to this %. What is going on up North?

Ken Sanders is in a very good place, Alaska. STAT numbers for AK for average two week change in deaths -85.7%.

BTW, we are seeing very good protocols and cart cleaning where we are.

Oh oh, I bet I'm in big trouble for tossing this up.

Tom:

You have correctly pointed out that even here in Canada, we still have problem areas. We can not address those problem areas by our Federal Government closing borders, and naturally, the closure of the Canada US border has no impact.

Similarly, your country's problem areas cannot be corrected with a closure of your country's borders with Canada or Mexico, but must be addressed internally.

It is hoped by many that you will soon be in a better position to deal with this pandemic.
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